Delay question

[medalguy]

I have had a FFL, SOT, been in the military and held top secret crypto clearances for many years, have CCW from two states, own numerous machine guns, have no record at all. Yet when I purchase a firearm, I always get a delay. Is there a way to find out why? Always approved later but always a delay from the beginning of this silly law.

 

[Crosswire3]

Similar situation and they couldn't tell me why. I just ended up getting my UPIN and don't have to deal with the delay anymore.

 

[Wildyams]

what i've been told is people with security clearance tend to get delayed a lot. I think the logic is you have "access" to "important" people who also have security clearance. If you have a bad day at work, they don't want you to have a new gun (because you obviously can't just go home and get one)


I'm not sure if you can find out exactly why you are delayed, I know you can if you get a deny.


Have you tried to get a UPIN number? (the number after your social on the 4473)

 

[bikemutt]

This will probably go down as a timeless question, there seems to be no pattern to who gets delayed, who doesn't, and how often.

Even with a UPIN I have always received a delay response. The FFL I most frequently deal with says he has never, ever had a non-citizen instantly proceeded (he uses the electronic NICS check).

It will be interesting for me to see if this changes now that I've become a naturalized citizen.

Maybe it's part of the plan to have no patterns, keep 'em guessing. It does seem crazy someone with the the OP's credentials would be consistently delayed.

 

[vaherder]

Security Clearances and Delays

Again the FBI and NICS and at least the DOD and alphabet soup agencies security clearance databases are not connected in any way shape or form. They do not talk to each other. FBI does not check the two DOD security clearance databases when they run NICS on you. Folks who are spreading these myths dont have a clue and assume the govt is a lot more efficient then it really is. FBI has had issues with upgrading their computers for at least a decade after spending hundred of milions of dollars. BTW the two DOD security clearance databases do not talk to each other.

I have held accesses that very few others in all of DOD and the Federal govt hold for over 30 years and have never had a delay.

These are stories spread by individuals on the far left and right. Conspiracy theories etc. There are no EO's out there that tell FBI to put a hold on anyone w/ a security clearance.

Now if I could just get DOD and AGA databases to talk to TSA so I could avoid the security lines at airports and just proceed w/o a grope or scan then maybe my clearances might be an asset. If you are going to grope me you have to buy me dinner.

 

[Bubbles]

Typically if there's a delay it's not because of anything you did, it's because there's a prohibited person in the system whose name (or alias) / DoB / PoB / etc. is very close to yours.

I also have a TS/SCI, an FFL, and multiple Form 4's on record and no NICS delays.

 

[medalguy]

Similar name is what I thought but even when I use my SSN I still get delayed. It's just a hassle that I have come to expect. I have homes in 2 states, one is Texas and NICS isn't run there since I have a CHL but the other state still requires the check which always comes back delay. I have heard it's because of the clearances, because of the FFL, the SOT, other things, but I too don't believe for a minute the govt is that well organized.

 

[Hoppe]

I will start by saying I have been told but do not know for sure, That the NICS data base is like an index if you have a "file" it just says yes or no then they have to pull the "file" and see what it is. I know this is over simplfied, but by haveing Gov clearance might be the reason for delay. NICS looks and says yes we have a file on him so hold up, then cheacks and sees that the "file" is your clearance record or some such thing and says ok.

This info came from an ex-military friend who has the same problem. In his words "I worked for them over 20 could have any firearm I wanted at any time now they make me wait, guess thats what I get for retiering"

Don't seem right to me but what you gonna do, it's the Govmant. they know they always right LOL

 

[brickeyee]

What i've been told is people with security clearance tend to get delayed a lot.

Since the SCI access that are granted to an individual are at least confidential, the granting agencies are never going to allow uncleared folks access to the list.

I have a TS/SCI access, with a full alphabet soup and have never had any delay.

 

[Crosswire3]

My delays began right after my NICS check for clearance. Even with my UPIN they still initially say to delay me. It's not until the dealer fights with them that they realize what the heck is going on.

 

[vaherder]

NICS

Does not know you have a file with DOD! It does not even track that you may have recently had fingerpints submitted for a check by a govt agency.
Again FBI NICS and the two DOD security clearance databases do not share info. The info in NICS comes from LE agences local, state and Fed and mainly concerns arrests and at times the disposition of the arrest.

NICS check by a FFL or your local LGS never checks FBI HQ files. Somewhere in FBI HQ there may be an individual who can check the DOD security clearance databases but it would be a manual check and they may still do it the old fashioned way with a phone call.

I access at executive branch agencies beside DOD and sorry they dont share info. To have my access or clearance passed they cant check an all govt database because one doesnt exist.

The fact you a security clearance has no effect on your NICS check. Back a few years ago having a conviction for a felony with a sentence of more than a year is jail automatically disqualified you from holding a security clearance in DOD. Not serving more then a year in jail but the possible sentence.

Again DOD does not share security clearance info with NICS. No budget or bodies at either agency for this.

 

[brickeyee]

Does not know you have a file with DOD!

DOD clearances are all pretty low key anyway.

The individual agencies grant their own clearances.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Is there a way to find out why?

Pretty much, no. "They" don't tell the FFL, and they won't even talk to you.

If you are always getting a delay (not a DENY mind you, but a DELAY), then you might as well do the VAF thing and get a UPIN. www.fbi.gov/nics-appeals

That -should- cut down on your delays. (or just get your FFL back!)

 

[medalguy]

I never tried to get a UPIN, maybe I should. I always go back after 3 days and pick up the gun if I'm in my second state. In Texas, my primary state, it's not a problem as my CHL negates the need for the NICS check. Still I guess I should look at the UPIN idea. Thanks all.

 

[bikemutt]

Before you jump on a UPIN consider it is just a number that's associated with a Voluntary Appeal File (VAF). If we parse that out into it's three words we have:

Voluntary. Meaning you are under no obligation to do this, any information you provide is purely voluntary.

Appeal. You have not been denied so why do you need to appeal?

File. They will keep a information in a in a file, or record.

Maybe sending in a VAF application and getting a UPIN will reduce or eliminate delays, maybe it won't.

Just my opinion but, not knowing precisely why you are delayed, and not knowing precisely how submitting a VAF application and obtaining a UPIN will eliminate the delays, is well within the domain of wishful thinking.

 

[vaherder]

Privacy Act

You can request from the FBI or any other govt agency the files or records they have on you under the Privacy Act. Since FBI arrest records also contain various state records you may have do an individual request to those states.

Agency has to respond promptly usually within 30 days.

NICS info in general is not protected from release by any exemptions or exclusions.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Maybe sending in a VAF application and getting a UPIN will reduce or eliminate delays, maybe it won't.

That is true, I guess, and the government guarantees nothing but taxes ... but NOT getting a UPIN is for sure not going to reduce them. The whole purpose of the UPIN is for NICS to be more quickly differentiate YOU (the good guy) from the next fellow (the bad guy) with a similar name.

 

[bikemutt]

That is true, I guess, and the government guarantees nothing but taxes ... but NOT getting a UPIN is for sure not going to reduce them. The whole purpose of the UPIN is for NICS to be more quickly differentiate YOU (the good guy) from the next fellow (the bad guy) with a similar name.

Take a look at the VAF application form, it asks you for the same information you furnish on form 4473. OK, you also have to submit fingerprints with the application. So, I suppose that IF the reason for consistent delays is because NICS has to decide every time if it's me, Chuck Manson, or him, Charles Manson, then yes, the VAF and UPIN should be a benefit. They can use the fingerprint card to rule out the ambiguity.

On the flip side, in the real world though, I have a UPIN and I still get delayed.

It is true all my delayed gun purchases were made while still a resident alien, I've not tried to buy one since being naturalized. But still, I'm firmly convinced that NICS knows me very, very well through my UPIN since I received a nice letter from them saying I'm good to go. I cannot imagine why I get delayed, I've given up trying to figure it out, I just plan for, and deal with it.

Based on my limited experience, which is all I really have to go on, I still believe a VAF/UPIN as a delay solution is right up there with a Vegas dice roll.