Purchase delayed--why?

[Invisible Swordsman]

This morning I went to pick up a shotgun I've had on lay-away for a few weeks. After calling in my info from the form 4473 I was told I have been "delayed". Fellow handling the paperwork said they don't give a reason, and I should expect a delay of 2-3 weeks.

My question is what triggers a delay like this in approval? I have made many purchases and this is a first. Does volume play a role? I have purchased several guns in the past year, the result of having more disposable income now that my daughters are out of college. It has been over a month since my last purchase.

If any one can enlighten me it would be appreciated, especially since I have another gun in lay-away.

 

[DWS1117]

I have always been delayed. The reasons that have been given to me is because of my last name. Smith for some reason if fairly common. I have been delayed as long as 3 days before. The gun store employee told me that after 3 days the gun is yours to take home even if they haven't heard from the FBI. I don't know if this is just here in Texas or the whole country.

My last gun buy inly took 10 minutes. Owner told me that there is a new system in use for the background check. Also if you have your CHL there are no delays.

 

[forquidder]

4473

My understanding is that they (FBI) have three days after delaying a purchase to come up with a proceed or a turn down. If they don't get back to the dealer within three days with either answer then their failure to respond is as good as a proceed for the seller. So the 2-3 weeks is a bogus answer from your seller, his answer should have been " If you don't hear from me before then, come back in 3 days".

 

[Keith]

Absolutely right!

If approval has not been received within three (working) days, the sale should proceed.

Find another gun shop to do business with.

Keith

 

[QuickDraw]

Perhaps the seller doesn't have the gun?

QuickDraw

 

[Zundfolge]

The last two purchases I made I was delayed, but I was told that since I came down to the shop at lunch time to pick up the gun that there wasn't as many people down at the ATF office (or wherever it is these checks are done).

Both times I just left the info and would swing by after work to pick up my gun.

If they are saying 2-3 weeks, I'm betting they are using the NICS check delay as an excuse because they don't have your shotgun in stock.

 

[Invisible Swordsman]

The shotgun is there, he had it out while calling in the check. It's also possible he said weeks instead of days the same way we can all say things wrong. I'll see what happens in a day or two. Still curious as to what triggers the delay.

 

[DWS1117]

As I mentioned earlier, it could be as simple as having a common name. Lots of people with the same name and some of them may have done bad things.

 

[Majic]

I have an extremely common name. I used to be delayed all the time, but the last few years it hasn't been a problem. I've always wondered why the name would cause a problem when the SSN is also used.

 

[Greg L]

My name isn't common but I constantly was delayed (so much that the running joke at the gun shop when I walked in was that they would be also seeing me 3 days from then ). One theory that I've heard is that because I was in the Army and had a Secret clearance done on me that there was an FBI file on me. Supposedly that was the reason for the delay as the 'crats doing the check couldn't figure out that my name was in the pile of good guys with an FBI file instead of the pile of bad guys with an FBI file. Over the past year or so I haven't gotten a delay, thus the new joke at the store is that I've bought enough that they know me at the FBI and don't have to sort through the piles anymore .

Greg

 

[DWS1117]

When I inquired as to why they just didn't use the SS# I was told by the gun store owner that the SS#'s are not always unique to one individual. I don't know how much truth there is to that. Wasn't concerned enough to research the topic.

 

[Majic]

When I inquired as to why they just didn't use the SS# I was told by the gun store owner that the SS#'s are not always unique to one individual.

Like a name is? Sounds like the dealer was just handing you a line of BS.

 

[dksck]

Dear Folks:
Eighteen months after the Instant Check began, the FBI invited a bunch of folks to Clarksburg, WVa. to see the operation, learn about how it worked or didn't work, and ask questions. I was one of the few who showed up. The system is really sevaral data bases linked together. At that time, the way it worked was the dealer called in and the call was taken at one of two call centers. The folks on the line at this level were not FBI agents or even federal workers, but contract workers. When the dealer read the information to them and they typed it into the computer, one of three words would appear: proceed, denied or delayed. Because these folks were not federal agents they weren't allowed to see any official records. So, if you had any kind of federal record, these folks would only see the word "delayed". They didn't know if you were a bank robber or somebody with a federal license like a pilot. If you were delayed, the call was transfered to a federal official, an FBI Documents Examiner, who had the authority to look at the records to see what kind of record it was. When the checks began, there were relatively few of these folks and the ones that existed ususally had enough seniority that they didn't have to work many weekends, so gun show purchases were often delayed. Since then, it is my understanding that they have hired more of these folks and most delays are handled immediately rather than requiring them to call back. However, there are still problems every once in a while. If you were in the military and had a special clearance, the agent who looks at your record has to have a clearance above that one. An other, more common example, occures with small jurisdictions where you might have been cited but not convicted. State and local records are notoriously bad. Another problem is with the name recognition. When Congress passed the legislation that created the instant check, they specified that it had to be a name recognition system, not one that relied on any other form of identification such as a social security number. That is why the 4473 states that it is optional--you don't have to give it and if your name is Smith, Jones, Brown, etc, it probably won't do any good. Then there are problems with the softward that can cause delay. The software is written so that it checks all the possible spellings of your name. It also checks all the possible combinations of first and middle names with the same initial. For example, if the good guys are looking for a bad guy name Raymond Uganda Smythe, and your name is Ralph Ulysses Smith, you will probably be delayed until they are certain you're not the bad guy trying to use an alias. Finally, there is the fact that when they run your name, they run it through seven or eight different data bases opearated by the FBI. What that means is that if any one of those separate systems is down, they can't complete the NICS check. You might leave the gun shop and get pulled over for speeding and have the officer check the system he has access to, and it will be working fine. However, one of the other systems can be down and that prevents the NICS check from going through. Hope this offers some insight into the system. If you have any more questions you think I might be able to answer, just let me know.

 

[Majic]

Here in Va. where instant check was pioneered, the state police handles our request. Your SSN maybe optional on the form, but it is read off of our drivers license (I have seen this done many times). At first our system was slow sometimes, but has increase in speed greatly these days.

 

[Azrael256]

I've always wondered why the name would cause a problem when the SSN is also used.

Never, ever rely on that. I had a credit card company cancel on me when my father filed for bankruptcy because we have the same name. The only question my bank asked when they pulled my credit report was my SSN, so it *should* be impossible to screw up, but...

 

[furetto7]

I get delayed every time I get run, some years ago a bad guy used my SSAN during a booking and now when you run my SSAN it hits on more than one name. I get kicked over to a checker every time.

 

[Invisible Swordsman]

dksck

Thanks. That's the kind of information I was hoping for. This took me by surprise since it's never happened before in numerous purchases. Glad to know it doesn't seem to be triggered by volume of purchases.

 

[dksck]

Dear Invisible:
Glad that I could be of help. However, in light of your comments about it being you first delay and concern about volumn, I think a couple of more words are in order. First, if you have purchased before and not been delayed, it could be for a couple of reasons. The most obvious concern, however, would be that somebody out there recently began using your name or identity or someone with a name like yours recently got into some trouble. If I were you, just to headoff trouble, I might concider having a friendly local police officer run your name. Even if you don't know any officers, some jurisdictions will do it for a small fee. Some employers require this sort of report so it's not too unusual of a request. Second, there is a record of volumn purchases, but it doesn't have to do with the NICS in Ohio. In some states you're limited to one agun a month, but Ohio has no such limit. The concern over volumn arises if you purchase more than one handgun in a five day period from the same shop. If you do, the shop is supposed to fill out a separate form and send a copy to the ATF and another to the local chief LEO. This portion of the law was designed to keep folks from buying lots of cheap handguns and then selling them somewhere else. You can buy as many handguns as you want at the same time, but if they are all the same cheap model or limited to a couple of different models but still cheap, you can expect to hear from ATF eventually. There is no reporting requirement on long guns. Hope this helps shed some light on things.

 

[Number 6]

DWS1117, Social Security numbers are unique to an individual. No individual has the same SS # as another living person or as any deceased person. The shop owner was either misinformed or telling you a lie. Here is a link that explains it in a little more detail.

http://www.ssa.gov/history/hfaq.html