Demand and Supply For Training

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by D.B. Cooper, Sep 15, 2022.

  1. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    What is going on with all these training companies/trainers? All of the well known ones are booked up for a year out.

    Pat Mac is booked into next year. So is John Lovell. Ditto Thunder Ranch, and a few others. Even the lesser known, local to my area, trainers are booked up. About the only place that isn't booked up is Gunsite, and I think that has to do with the sheer size of the facility.

    I mean, obviously, there are a lot of new gun owners, etc. but, in the words of our president, "C'mon, man!"
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
  2. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    People are seeing things heading downhill fast in the world and are realizing that they should be getting good training. The vast majority of long time gun owners, not just the new ones, have little or no training at all in how to fight with a firearm. Problem is, there are only a small number of places to get that training and so, the places that do provide it get booked up quick.
     
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  3. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    Check out Kyle Lamb or John McFee.
     
  4. Night Rider

    Night Rider Member

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    Go look at how many followers some of these people have on YouTube. That's why they're packed out.
     
  5. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    That's a good point. They definitely don't have any problems with advertising. I thought of signing up for WPSN to watch John Lovell's Rifle training, but I just don't think that watching a training on a screen will be all that impactful.
     
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  6. Matthew Temkin

    Matthew Temkin Member

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    Find some less known but still relevant local instructors near your location.
     
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  7. shafter

    shafter Member

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    I've been to many of these trainings and I'm noticing that most who attend are all kitted out in plates and helmets and very few are focused on realistic concealed carry scenarios.

    The training has been good in most cases but it's barely relevant to the average American who wants to protect himself and his family from realistic threats. It has far more relevance for law enforcement or military.

    I'll never knock someone who wants to train but it does seem like it's becoming an adult role playing game for those who never joined the military or law enforcement.

    Kinda reminds me of people who buy twenty years worth of special expensive food buckets for the end of the world (that they'll likely never use) while their pantry only has two days worth of food they will actually eat if the lights go out. Focus on the most likely threats first. Build from there.
     
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  8. Telekinesis

    Telekinesis Member

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    I think it’s a bit of a supply/demand problem. While there are a lot of mediocre trainers out there, if I’m going to be spending $500+ for the class, $300-800 on ammo, traveling, taking time off work, etc I want to be getting training from someone who is really good, not just “ok”. That list of nationally recognized instructors and schools is actually not that big. So lots of people wanting to train with a small number of schools means they get booked quickly.


    I am not on WPSN and I haven’t seen the videos, but I can speak to watching videos for other classes. While watching is not a substitute for actually going there and doing the training yourself, it does generally give you a good outline of the class. It lets you see if the class is a good fit for what you’re trying to learn and it lets you get some insight into the teaching method, class structure, and some drills. For me having an idea of what would be happening beforehand was really helpful when I was first getting into the more advanced training.

    That depends a bit on what kind of class you’re in. If it’s just a CCW class (even an advanced pistol class) then yeah, I’d expect people to be using normal carry gear. But if it’s a rifle class, and especially if it’s a more advanced rifle class with stuff like buddy pair and team movement, all of those plate carriers, chest rigs, pouches, and slings become pretty useful. Even if it’s just to carry extra mags so the group doesn’t have to break so often to get more ammo. And who doesn’t love being able to just reach into a pocket and grab a snack?

    Wearing that gear in class is also useful to test the setup. I’ve seen a bunch of people who have pouches on a vest that hinder drawing their pistol. Shouldering a gun against or around a plate is also a bit of a learning experience the first time. Much better to figure that out in a class than a real fight.



    And I know it’s a bit cliche but if there’s ever a fight that I’m not able to avoid, I would rather have a rifle than a pistol. If I had the choice I’d also want to be wearing armor (because sometimes the other guy can make hits too). And I’d much rather have a few friends with rifles, armor, and training. And I’d like to have an AC-130 orbiting.

    Everything except the aircraft is completely possible for a regular person to accomplish if they want to.

    Plus, some of that advanced training is a bunch of fun. And a lot of shoot houses require that you wear body armor and helmets.
     
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  9. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    You might have just sold me on subscribing.

    I dunno. I know a guy who has a Cessna 172. And I know another guy who has a class 3 permit, soooooooo... =) j/k
     
  10. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Administrator Staff Member

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    What classes were those? I've never seen that. I have seen LE folks taking a class who will wear their full uniform, including their standard body armor. Other than that, it's mostly just regular folks dressed like regular folks.
     
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  11. citizenconn

    citizenconn Member

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    The long distance shooting range me and my shooting partner (Dad) had been going for years closed a while ago and the only other decent outdoor range within driving distance is a "tactical" range. The old range was mostly experienced rifle shooters banging steel from 500 yards to a mile. This new range is full of tactical bays filled with guys (and gals) all kitted up with more stuff than the Army fitted me out with back in the day.

    Just as you said, so many of these folks seem to be live action role playing, emulating their favorite youtubers. It would be comical if it they weren't so often unsafe and clueless in general about firearms. But these tactical folks seem to outnumber the long range rifle shooters and hunters sighting in their rifles by a factor or 20 or more. I guess that's where the money is for the range.

    My grandma always told me it takes all kinds, but I can't help but be nervous when those folks come shoot around me.
     
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  12. shafter

    shafter Member

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    I think they're good Americans and I'm not really that worried about them safety wise, at least not more so than anyone else, but man they're spending a lot of money when they can't shoot their concealed firearms worth a hoot. How about we master the basics first before going advanced.
     
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  13. citizenconn

    citizenconn Member

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    :thumbup:
     
  14. westernrover

    westernrover Member

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    ITTS is always running in Los Angeles. It's easy to fly into and they have classes at least every month, sometimes twice. Watch out for big holiday discounts around Black Friday timeframe.

    This one is a moving target -- https://massadayoobgroup.com/events/
    Look for when they're in an area with lower travel costs to you. If you can get the legal/ethical portion, it makes this easily the best option out there because it includes this aspect that a lot of the weapons-handling schools (like Gunsite) don't offer, and if your goal is related to carry rather than competition, that's huge. Even so, the practical weapons handling portion is comparable to many of the better schools. Now obviously two days in MAG20 or MAG40 aren't equal to five days at Rogers, and the facility you'll be at isn't going to match Thunder Ranch Oregon, ever. Nevertheless, the quality of instruction will be at least as good as any of the big-name schools.
     
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  15. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    Were you asleep all of 2020? Did you see what happened in Kenosha?

    Perhaps, but a conflicting narrative is that people are preparing for something worse than an airsoft tournament.

    Always sound advice. For half of all Americans, the most likely threat is the cheeseburger on their plate. Heart disease accounts for half of all deaths in America. Sell your guns and buy gardening tools.

    That's because when you and I were in the Army, they didn't give us much.

    The RSOs at my club cringe when the active duty guys show up from the local base. They really do have a different set of rules on an Army range.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2022
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  16. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    Actually, I'm primarily focused on run n gun type competitions. Every state's legal requirements for a CWP is going to be different (my state's is very different than other places I've lived), so, if you want a CCW class, you're better off taking that locally.

    That said, I would take a Massad Ayooob class in any state just for the experience. Same for Gunsite.
     
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  17. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    You've been to a class that was specifically focused on concealed carry where the students were wearing plates and helmets? Where did they generally conceal their weapons?
     
  18. Wichaka

    Wichaka Member

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    I was well booked this year, with a lot of private requests in between...am already booking up for next year...it's been busy.
     
  19. Night Rider

    Night Rider Member

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    I said this last month and I'll say it again.

    Warrior Poet has 1.3 Million subscribers. And that's just subscribers God only knows how many people watch his videos. You can't buy advertising like that.
     
  20. ClicheBro

    ClicheBro member

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    DARC TUSC is interesting.
     
  21. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

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    Carry Trainer S12 is run by Mickey Schuch

    I took his course in Tn. about 3 years ago and was REALLY,REALLY impressed.

    I went with the belief that I was not likely to learn much at all,see I was retired LEO and had been trained by the "FBI" to be a firearms instructor and they also taught me to be a Defensive Tactics instr.

    So instructor 'Z' showed me I had more to learn that I had time to absorb.

    As did ALL the other instructors they had there.

    It was SAFE,FUN,Scary and VERY educational.

    Just google the school and then do as you like.

    I was 72 when I went,now 75 and planning on going again.
     
  22. ClicheBro

    ClicheBro member

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    Last edited: Oct 30, 2022
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