Democratic Leadership Just Doesn't Get It

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BenW

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I was watching the news this morning, and a Republican and Democratic strategist were each being interviewed. When asked what they should do to bring more Americans into their party, the Democratic strategist (Steve something, I didn't catch his last name) first stated what they should NOT do. The SECOND thing he said Democrats should NOT do is to stop pushing for "moderate" (quotations mine) gun control.

Doesn't this kind of talk drive the Democrats here on the forum nuts? Democratic leadership must do nothing but poll liberals in Manhattan to get their talking points. I don't see how continual pushing for the stuff America has rejected will get them anywhere.

The Democrats have people that "get it" and are not focused on pleasing the urban latte sippers, but they alienate them. If Zell Miller had run instead of Kerry, I might very well have switched partys this year. As long as they tell me they will not stop pushing for tax increases and gun control, they'll never attract people like me, and I believe will just further alienate moderate Democrats.
 
focused on pleasing the urban latte sippers
That's where the numbers are. It's a lot easier to convert a few more urbanites than to win the red states in the middle of the country. The Dems winning a few more urban counties would have made all the difference in this (presidential) election. As for the Dems winning back the House or Senate, they have a much different battle (one which they do not know how to win).
 
I don't see how continual pushing for the stuff America has rejected will get them anywhere.


"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again
and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein :D
 
Thursday, Nov. 4, 2004 9:09 a.m. EST
Sen. Dodd: We Democrats Are out of Touch

Thoughtful Democrats are realizing they should view Tuesday's elections as a wake-up call and start considering why they're so out of touch with the American people.

"We Democrats better think long and hard about what happened ... and how our party is going to connect with the hopes and aspirations of the people," liberal Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., said Wednesday after managing to win re-election, unlike Minority Leader Tom Daschle.

"We have lost the ability to connect with people's value systems, and we're going to have to work to get that back."

Retiring Democrat Sen. Zell Miller of Georgia wrote for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution: "Secular socialism, heavy taxes, big spending, weak defense, limitless lawsuits and heavy regulation — that pack of beagles hasn't caught a rabbit in the South or Midwest in years.

"The most recent failed nominee for president stands as proof that the national Democratic Party will continue to dwindle."

Rep. Earl Pomeroy, D-N.D., noted: "I think that the Democratic Party nationally is perceived as being out of step with mainstream values. I want our party to do a better job of speaking to matters of faith and family."

The more clueless among them, however, are merely wailing.

"We have lost just about everything that we can lose," moaned San Francisco Democrat Nancy Pelosi, the House minority leader.

San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, who inadvertantly helped re-elect Bush by making same-sex marriage a galvanizing issue, whined to the New York Times: "There is a sense of helplessness that we couldn't tip the election in any way. We couldn't do it rhetorically or in an actual vote. You feel powerless."

Even though the Democrats chose the Senate's No. 1 leftist for their presidential nominee, Green Party leader Jo Chamberlain told the San Francisco Chronicle that leftists should now abandon the Democrat party (uh, who exactly would remain then?).

"We stepped aside and told the Democrats, 'Go get the White House,' and they failed," she grumbled. "So now, the progressive left is suffering because of their poor planning and leadership."

Now that's what you call progress.
 
In fact, why don't you come out for kicking in doors and disarming the hicks. That should really help you.
LOL! :)

The loony left took over the Democratic party and it is spiraling down the drain because of it. They need to realize who their enemies are in order to return to relevancy.

The problem with nanny-state socialists is that everybody is their enemy. It's just a matter of whose in the crosshairs at any given moment. Once they take one targeted sector out they'll find another to target. It will never stop. On and on into oblivion.

- Gabe
 
the hicks.
What's really been cracking me up in the last couple of days is how these "open and inclusive" liberals are all blaming their loss on, "all those dumb hicks in the Heartland."

A couple of my favorite quotes over the last couple of days:

A Manhattanite interviewed by the NYT:
"If the heartland feels so alienated from us, then it behooves us to wrap our arms around the heartland," she said. "We need to bring our way of life, which is honoring diversity and having compassion for people with different lifestyles, on a trip around the country."
Yes, by all means, come out to the wilderness and show me and my Coke can worshipping tribe just how enlightened you are.

James Ridgeway in the Village Voice, "The dream of a secular, liberal democracy is lost"
Yes, those 2.5 kid, working class, go to church on Sunday, moderate Democrats are all bummed out about losing that dream...:rolleyes:

Oh yeah, and nevermind that the United States is a Republic, not a Democracy, jackass.
 
Ben, they call us "hicks" or "huckleberries". "Diversity" does that include gun-owning Constitutionalists who only want to work hard and be left alone to raise their families? Probably not, huh?

Here's the wierd thing, the ones in the trendy bars in D.C. calling me a huckleberry or hick grew up in the same kind of places I did.:p

"Just a bunch of Hoosier hicks.
Not as smart as those New York Knicks.
I use a tractor as my car."

Who knew that we could all raise our IQs by just moving into East Coast Eloi zip codes?

From the "heartland" I strike at thee. BTW, once I strike at you, I don't stop. Come '06, you will see why they called Hoosiers "gougers", Eloi! Ground and pound!:cool:
 
If Zell Miller had run instead of Kerry, I might very well have switched partys this year.
Funny . . . the same topic came up at a lunchtime bull session yesterday at work. The concensus is that Zell would've won in a landslide, as most of the "I Hate Bush" crowd would've either voted for Zell or stayed home, and with a viable alternative, conservatives would have abandoned Bush in droves.

As far as the Democrats not getting it, I remember during the Reagan landslide, some Democrat being interviewed on TV election eve said words to the effect of "We're right on this issue, we're right on that issue, we're right on the other issue, they HAVE to vote for us!"

Reagan's campaign manager, interviewed a few minutes later, said that what he liked most was that the Democrats still hadn't figured out why they lost.
 
...a peek at my "John Kerry's core values" thread, though long, might be germaine to this discussion...

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...
 
Thoughtful Democrats are realizing they should view Tuesday's elections as a wake-up call...

They've slept through the McGovern wake up call, the Carter wake up call, the Dukakis wake up call, the Mondale wake up call, and now the Kerry wake up call.

I'd say the Democratic (sic) party should be given a funeral.
 
Some of the guys on DU were suggesting secession - except this time the Northeast would secede.

Maybe they could team up with Quebec's secession movement. I'm sure that the rest of Canada wouldn't object too much :D .
 
They've slept through the McGovern wake up call, the Carter wake up call, the Dukakis wake up call, the Mondale wake up call, and now the Kerry wake up call.

I would submit that every election since McGovern has been a wake up call, with Clinton only being elected due to third party influence, and Gore only loosing by so narrow a margin due to MSM meddling.

Without Perot running in 1992 and the media behaving more responsibly in 2000, we would be going on 26 years of Democrat losses on the Presidential level.
 
So, I went over to check out the DU site, and I saw this post that does a good job of showing how the Dems. have screwed up their strategy. It is a view point rom the dark side, but it is well reasoned. Therefore, the DU folks have had an adverse reaction to it. :D As standing wolf said, they are sleeping through this wakeup call!

I pasted it here, becuase their site keeps on going down.


Arguing centrist v. leftist is missing the point, in my opinion.

The political spectrum is not a straight line running from far-left to middle to far-right. The political spectrum is actually a multi-dimensional graph that includes as many points of view as there are people. But for the purposes of this post, I am going to separate our broad liberal coalition into three very general ideological groups.

The names I have chosen for these groups are names I made up myself, and should not be taken to describe anything other than what I say they do. I am using the term "they" to describe each of these groups, although I will admit that I may belong to one or more of them.

Please note that by putting people into broad groups, I run the risk of appearing to stereotype everyone in any particular group. My intent is to provide some framework to describe people, but I am not trying to pigeon-hole any particular person.

But getting back to my original point: Arguing straight centrist v. leftist is missing the point. I believe there are three broad ideological groups in our coalition, and we need to figure out how to appeal to all of them.

Left-liberals - It's pretty obvious that this group is the dominant one on Democratic Underground. It may even be the dominant group among party activists and elites, although I am doubtful that this group is a majority of our voters. This group tends to be liberal across-the-board on all issues, whether they are cultural, social, economic, or foreign policy. They dislike most war, they support abortion, gay rights, gun control, the environment, and they support workers rights, organized labor, progressive and relatively high taxes, and universal health care.

Center-left libertarians - These are the folks who are generally liberal on social issues, support abortion, gay rights, gun control, education, and the environment, but tend to be more fiscally conservative in their economic outlook. They are urban or suburban, they support free trade, they are distrustful labor unions and government regulation. They like balanced budgets. They might have even voted Republican back before the Republican party took a hard-right cultural turn. (To be clear, when I use the term "libertarian" I'm not referring to the generally right-leaning people who might be tempted to support the Libertarian Party.)

Center-left populists - These are the people that support liberal economic policies, but are generally conservative in their social, cultural, or foreign policy views. They may be working class or middle class, working in manufacturing or service industries. They may be in a union, or they know people in a union. They oppose free trade, they support universal health care and workers' rights. But they are conservative culturally, or they are deeply ambivalent about cultural issues. They support things like gun rights, regulation of abortion, a strong military, and protecting the flag, and are skeptical of gay rights and affirmative action. When the country goes to war, it might not even cross their minds to oppose it. To do such a thing strikes them as unpatriotic.

I think most observers would agree that the Democratic party is getting killed among the third group: Center-left populists. The Republican party is making great inroads into this group on an overtly cultural appeal. Party elites in Washington, DC, New York, and California, scratch their heads and wonder why working-class people would possibly vote against their own economic interests.

I think that the simplest answer is this: Their interests are not entirely economic. Like most voters, they vote on a broad range of issues, including cultural issues. But I think there is something else going on here. Maybe the Democratic Party isn't doing such a great job at defending their economic interests.

For as long as I have been a Democrat, we have taken for granted the obvious truth that we are better at protecting the economic interests of the vast majority of Americans. But I think the gradual erosion of support among Center-left populists suggests that they do not have the same opinion of the Democratic Party. Democrats need to figure out how to position ourselves once again as the staunch defender of the economic interests of the middle class.

Here's another problem: I believe that party elites are disproportionately drawn from the first two groups: Left-liberals and center-left libertarians. I know lots of Democrats here in Washington, DC, and they are almost all relatively affluent professional types from the Northeast or West Coast who don't have any life experience at all interacting with regular people from middle America. In fact, their opinion of them could almost be described as contemptuous. At a minimum, I think it could be called condescending. We think that we are doing "those people" a favor by supporting policies which will help them, and quite frankly we feel a little offended that they aren't thanking us for looking out for them.

Quite understandably, the response of some center-left populists is "I'll look out for myself, thanks." Nobody wants to be anyone else's charity-case.

Ultimately, my point is this: There is going to be a lot of fighting about whether we need to go "liberal" or go "centrist," but in the end, I think it's missing the point. As long as urban elites from the Left-liberal group and the Center-left libertarian group are arguing among themselves about "how to win the hearts of populists" we are going to lose. Because, let's face it: Most people don't have that much experience dealing with people who are different from ourselves.

If we want center-left populists to be Democrats, we need center-left populists in our coalition to show us how. We need to value their contributions, and we need to welcome them into our coalition as equal members.

Part of the reason why I am a Democrat (and why anyone is a Democrat) is because I am surrounded by people who share my values and who are all Democrats. Center-left populist Democrats are the members of our party who are most likely to reach other Center-left populists. Let's start valuing their contribution, before we lose them all to the other side.


The dems have turned over control of their party to the socialists.
 
clbj

Next time you're logged on to DU, give THIS to that writer. It sounds like what he's reaching for.


With all that manure spread around, it was inevitable a single rose would pop up. :p
 
I tried to log into DU, but their registration is closed until after the election. Whenever that is, in their view. Maybe 2008, they hope.

Regards.
 
I got kicked out of there quite some time ago the very first time I posted! They couldn't deal with calm cold statistics and numbers! Some example of tolerance and diversity! :banghead:

This particular item along with responses is on their main page if you scroll down a little. No need to log in.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/
 
UnknownSailor:

I think you're right.
Absolutely. I think the MSM's shameless left-wing love-fest and constant bashing of the right is worth at the very least 15 points on election day. At the very least.

Without Perot, Clinton would never have been in the White House, not even once.

A telling note: the lefties lawyered Nader to death this time around. Scrubbing him from the ballot any way they could. You want to talk about voter suppression? Free speech? They assaulted that guy like there was no tomorrow (which in their view, if Kerry lost there was no tomorrow - hence the moral justification for ruthlessly killing Nader, who is ideologically their soulmate. When someone tells you that the left would kill their own brother to get back in power, now you know they're telling the truth). When Perot ran, getting, what, 18%? I don't remember anyone on the right blamming him for Clinton. His right to run was respected and he was left alone. Twice.

If Nader was on line to get anything even approaching 18% of the vote, the lefties would have had him assassinated.

- Gabe
 
"There is a sense of helplessness that we couldn't tip the election in any way. We couldn't do it rhetorically or in an actual vote. You feel powerless."
:D
Happiness is Democrats feeling helpless and powerless!
 
Repost from another thread

Over at DU they are already starting to rationalize that they lost the election because:

"Karl Rove appealed to the "Fundie Bigots" that hate gays"

"The Diebold voting machine people rigged the software"

"They threw away thousands of ballots for Kerry in Ohio"

Just about everything short of, "My dog ate my ballot" or "My little brother spilled hot chocolate on it".

In the gun related forums they are trying to figure out how to "look more attractive or at least less threatening to "The Gun Nuts" that vote (actual quote). Not about how to actually change their party and get rid of, or at least marginalize, Feinstien, Schumer.

They still think it's about style and not the substance.

I'd love to see someone in the DNC actually come out and say:

"You know what, look at all these red counties, even in states we won. Maybe we are out of step with the majority of Americans and what they believe. Dammit, we should spend less time listening to characters like Paul Krugman, Maureen Dowd, Ben Affleck, Jesse Jackson and the like and more time listening to the guy who drives the FedEx truck or handles insurance claims and their neighbors. Might even be a good idea to go to church once in a while too, beyond showing up in a few black churches the week before an election."

"Nah! Let's do what Nancy Pelosi says, get our leftist message out louder and more shrill. After all San Francisco is just like Sandusky Ohio, right?"

Sarcasm aside, I do not hold out much hope for them pulling their collective heads from a deep dark place anytime soon. They are deep in denial and eager to assign the blame.

Besides, "Soul Searching" by definition requires the belief in a G-- and a soul in the first place, doesn't it? They are too busy getting those evil nativity scenes and ten commandments out of public view to think about their souls, if they ever really believed they had one that is.

Don P.
 
A telling note: the lefties lawyered Nader to death this time around. Scrubbing him from the ballot any way they could. You want to talk about voter suppression? Free speech? They assaulted that guy like there was no tomorrow (which in their view, if Kerry lost there was no tomorrow - hence the moral justification for ruthlessly killing Nader, who is ideologically their soulmate. When someone tells you that the left would kill their own brother to get back in power, now you know they're telling the truth). When Perot ran, getting, what, 18%? I don't remember anyone on the right blamming him for Clinton. His right to run was respected and he was left alone. Twice.

It was interesting to watch the Democrats, the supposedly pro gay-rights protecting party, attempt to smear Nader as being unfit for the presidency because, they claim, he is a homosexual.

There's some awfully desperate and sick-minded people in the DNC.
 
"Nah! Let's do what Nancy Pelosi says, get our leftist message out louder and more shrill. After all San Francisco is just like Sandusky Ohio, right?"
They are really their own worst enemies. Let 'em continue to marginalize their way into obscurity.
 
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