Demographics:The Underlying Facts of Violent Crime.

[Autolycus]

Two instances of gun-owner bigotry in one day.

Owen Sparks: Do you also notice that with large populations of black folks, you also find large populations of poor people? What about poor white areas? Why are crime rates higher there?

Why do black folks who are not poor do so well? The same goes for richer white folks?

Its easy to avoid a life of crime when you have money. Less temptation, less problems, and life is easier.

 

[NickHTK]

I think economics play a huge role.

 

[GTSteve03]

Do you also notice that with large populations of black folks, you also find large populations of poor people? What about poor white areas? Why are crime rates higher there?

I proved this line of thinking wrong earlier, you may not have noticed.

The entire state of West (By God) Virginia is the third poorest state in the nation, and the poorest in household income. Yet it is also only 36th on the FBI's list of violent crime rates by state.

Oh yeah, and WV is 96% white.

 

[Christianninja]

It's always nifty to see the racism come out on THR.

As small of a percentage as it is.

To say that the problem is "Blacks", and somehow biological instead of social is blatant Nazi racist ignorance.

But its not like it gives the gun culture a bad name, or feeds stereotypes, or drives others away from the cause, is it?

 

[Feanaro]

Tecumseh: When you think "poverty" and "income disparity," do you picture Greece, Poland, Norway, Denmark, Ireland, Canada, Finland, Australia, Denmark, Spain, Iceland, the Netherlands, and France? I only wonder because those countries are all in the top #25 countries for assaults per capita(on NationMaster). Many also appear in top #25 lists for rape and burglary. You'd think that places totally stricken with poverty like, I dunno, Bangladesh would outpace most first world countries.

Maybe it's income disparity? But then, you'd think that places like Denmark and Finland wouldn't have much crime under the poverty theory, since they have good GDPs and are among the best nations as far as income equality.

 

[eliphalet]

It;s the people, the person, for the large part, can't blame it all on the environment.

Remember the folks in the internment camps during WWII? Remember the gangs they formed once released and how rampid crime was in areas they populated? Released as paupers for the most part, and hated by nearly all at that time, how they preyed upon the populace as soon as returned to society?
Gosh, I can find no record of that. Ever wonder why? Because of the people themselves.

Gimme a break, stop the PC and accept reality.

I doubt any people anywhere at anytime in history have had more advantages shoved in their face than the minority in this country the last few decades. Still joblessness abounds and crime flourishes among some peoples, Why? cause that was their choice for the most part.

Some kids that grow up at the country club become criminals or druggies and street urchins. Some that grow up in the worst ghettos become far better citizens and contributers to society than most of us. Why? because that was what they choose to do. Certain choices are harder than others for some but we all make our own choices. Easy or hard it is all up to you.

Edit: I tell ya who I feel sorry for. That is a person of color who is a fine upstanding citizen and has the blight of what a large persentage of his fellow men do to damage him in the eyes of many and of how some in society sees him because of it.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I think MakAttack has come as close to getting it right as possible:

Everyone here is all pointing to INDICATORS.

Why do people steal, kill, deal drugs, etc...?

Race will not explain it.

INCOME does not explain it either. (As GTSteve03 just pointed out).

Social structure does not explain it.

Why to people commit crimes? BECAUSE THEY ARE CRIMINALS.

Almost NO ONE in this country is subject to TRUE poverty. (And before you start to impugn my character, I have seen what true poverty is in this country as a large portion of my father's family qualify.) Very few people are stealing food.

As such, people do not become criminals because they are forced to by extreme necessity.

People become criminals because they want things and don't believe they should have to work to get them.

It's that simple. People commit crimes because they think they have a right to those things. People commit crimes because they care only about themselves and their wants.

People commit crimes because they are told over and over how greedy businesses are and how what they have CREATED AND EARNED is just because they rip people off.

People commit crimes because they think if everyone else has it easy, why shouldn't I?

People commit crimes because they think it's how you get ahead.

Why would people think that? Because they are raised to think that. People commit crimes because they have been raised to become criminals.

 

[Dr. Dickie]

Why do black folks who are not poor do so well? The same goes for richer white folks?

Its easy to avoid a life of crime when you have money. Less temptation, less problems, and life is easier.

Poverty and crime are two aspects (results) of a broken culture. Poverty does not cause crime.
I don't know, but I would be willing to bet it is true, that poor people feel that they have less control over their lives than successful people (and yes, I used that word on purpose).
If you feel that you are controlled, rather than control, your life, why not smack that person in the head and take what he has? He just got lucky to get it! He didn't do anything more than you to get that money, just got lucky.
Poverty in America is about making poor choices, the same mentality that led to those poor choices leads to the choices of crime (and yes, of course, there are SOME people who are poor due to catastrophic events, but we are talking about the other 99.9%).

 

[dmftoy1]

I don't believe that poverty causes crime, I think you're either criminally inclined or not. I think that poverty probably leads to violent crimes more easily than for criminally inclined people who are well off because they don't necessarily have the means to commit white collar crime. (rich people steal too)

I have a bias . .but I think that high population densities cause violent crime more than anything else. (doesn't matter, white, black, etc) The earlier cite of West Virginia's high poverty but low crime bears that out to me. I moved to the country 5 years ago (grew up in the country) and I just find myself so much less inclined to get angry with people then when I was living in town.

If you're having a bad day, go home to your apartment and the neighbors above you are playing their music too loud and the woman next door to you is screaming at your kids . .and you just fought traffic for 3 hours . .well I think you're more likely to "go off".

Just my .02

Regards,
Dave

 

[nelson133]

I started to write a long piece on the reasons for higher crime rates in the disenfranchised parts of society. But the facts are that a racist will only act out of their prejudice, and those posters here prove it. No point in preaching to the deaf, you will end up with what you deserve.

 

[svtruth]

Violent crime

is (like Gaul) divided into three parts which should be considered separately.
Criminal on criminal crime, often shootings over drug turf or perceived slights; domestic violence which is very resistant to police intervention because it occurs at home; and the relatively rare criminal on stranger crime. This last category in NYC last year only accounted for about 25% of the shootings.

 

[stevereno1]

poor people in the south commit more violent acts against squirrels, 'possums, rabbits, deer, etc... out here in the country we take care of our neighbors as well. a load of firewood for someone who is down on their luck, we use the barter system a lot, fixing up someone's barn in exchange for a a used disc harrow, etc... These are black and whites in this community. The only idiots are the crackheads and meth heads. I think that drugs fuel the violence, not race.

 

[Atticus]

If you are raised in a tribal culture by incapable parents your chances of becoming CEO of Pepsi is nill. Your chances of spending time in jail is about 3 in 4.

Exactly. Unfortunately, social policies in the US have contributed significantly to this. Social services dollars for example should encourage people to be married, limit the number of kids (and mostly wait to have them till they are older), and encourage then to earn supplemental income, until they can be self sufficient. They should encourage family building, rather than encouraging the destruction of it. Nearly, every social program we have, requires that you have nothing, and do nothing, to "earn" benefits.
I realize that most people here are rabidly against government aid, I am to, but these programs are here to stay, and they need to be designed to make people self- sufficient, not life-long dependent. Sub-cultures have been formed as a result, and those sub cultures do not live by the same principles that you and I live by. Those sub-cultures need to be eliminated by restructuring the blue print from which they were built.

 

[RKBABob]

Economics alone is not a contributor to crime. One can argue all day long that poverty causes one to steal... but that is only true in the absence of morality and of other options by which to provide for oneself. Poverty, historically, is more likely to cause hard work, ingenuity, and political change.

Race has never been a large contributor to crime by itself. Culture, however, is probably a large contributor. Multiculturalism has forced an entire generation to ignore each individual's worth, and to shun any shared loyalties among the artificial groups we have set up. Immigrants, rather than being absorbed into the "American melting pot" the way they were in the past, are now classified as being less than American, even after 2 or 3 generations.

A much faster pace of life, combined with unchecked greed for status is probably a larger contributor yet. No longer do we gather around and talk to our neighbors. Instead, we're all off working to purchase a bigger and shinier SUV than they have.

The largest contributor to crime, IMHO, is the lack of a family structure for many of todays young ones. Growing up without a father, and with mother off working for her new SUV, children are left alone to create role models out of the people they see on TV. Their TV role models are able to resolve complex issues in one half hour episode, and often by resorting to violence.

My conclusion... and this is only my opinion... Crime's leading cause is a greed for material goods to elevate one's status above their artificially imposed grouping, and thus receive the individual status that their grouping and lack of family structure denies them.

Our fast paced lifestyle doesn't encourage financial gains by long periods of hard work... instead an easy route (such as theft) is often chosen. Role models capable of quenching this greed for status, such as a poor, but hard working dad, aren't present. Instead, only the TV role models exist, and they just further the illusion that material goods are the key to get out of unhappiness.

For those who've decided that their social grouping is inescapable, there is always drugs.

 

[Ash]

My parents were once impoverished. Dad worked as a janitor at a local wrestling rink. My grand parents were small farmers. Their parents were small farmers. My great grandfather picked up pecans after he was too old to farm. During the depression, their plight did not change because they were already poor.

None of them ever committed a crime. Dad took correspondence courses and earned a Broadcast Engineer degree and went to work for NBC.

I have a friend who was raised by a single parent who left him to be raised by his brothers when he was 16 and his oldest brother was 20 working as a security guard at K-Mart. My friend dropped out of highschool but realized it was absurd to do so. Got his GED, went to college, and got his Masters in Engineering and now works for Mercedes. His brothers are likewise doing well.

There is no excuse. No, there is no excuse. Poverty does not cause crime. Being a certain type of person with no work ethic causes both poverty and crime - why work for it when you can steal it?

I have worked with a great many of people who are of this kind of thought, people who work just long enough to get beer, or other, money and then drop off the radar. They'll call when they need to get out of jail or need some more cash. Yes, I have. I have had several guys on burning crews who ended up in prison or came out of prison. They were all races but had one thing in common, no morality and a pitiful work ethic.

And don't give me the crap about racism being alive and well. Of course it is, but that is no excuse. Ask the Irish in America. But racism is not an excuse for a near 75% illegitimacy rate as during the dark days of segregation, where an entire community was considered second class, illegitimacy was less than 25%. In the darkest days of segregation people were getting married and showing a strong work ethic.

Now, I don't see a racial problem per se, but the Black community needs to fire all of their leaders and turn to self-control and self-determination. The argument that crime is because blacks are kept down is hog-wash. Crime and illegitimacy are worse today, when opportunity is at its greatest, than during the 1950's with separate lunch counters and crappy bathrooms.

These are facts. They cannot be disputed because they are true.

Yet what is also true is that there is nothing that makes blacks or hispanics genetically inferior. We are all equal in every way. But we refuse to address the real problem. Bill Cosby is right regarding the community.

Ash

 

[tkkr]

Why do black folks who are not poor do so well?

OJ simpson?
Michael Vick?
Michael Jackson?

the Black panther party?

The same can be said about whites with their KKK, the more the money- the more the power.
I believe a person is either born good or bad depending on the parents, what comes after is dressing.

Mental traits are inhertied just like physical ones are.

 

[Owen Sparks]

To determine if poverty, not race is the root cause of violence, one need only to look at the highest paid group of professionals in the country. Professional athletes. Compair The National Football League with pro golf.
Not too many fellony convictions in the PGA, or motor sports or pro bowling or Ping Pong for that matter.

 

[Justin]

Not gun related.