Denied a firearm's purchase.

[Ankeny]

Our local dealer just picked up a dozen 37-2 Smith revolvers cheap that have been hiding in a warehouse. I decided to buy one so I filled out the yellow sheet, gave the clerk my Driver's License and CCW permit. I just bought a gun from him a week ago and two from their sister store in a near by town last month.

Anyhow, even though I put my physical address on the yellow sheet (clearly says no PO Box) I was denied the purchase by the dealer because my driver's license and CCW permit don't include my street address.

I live in a small town and we don't have mail delivery so everything goes to the Post Office. When doing business with the state, like a CCW permit or DL they want the mailling address. For instance, if I give the physical address, the state would mail my DL to that address and the Post Office would return the item. However, I can go do an early renewal on my DL and have both addresses listed for an additional twenty five bucks.

The dealer asks about voter registration card? I take it out and no address. How about vehicle registration? I retrieve that and it's the mailing address. How about tax receipt for the vehicle? You guessed it, mailing address. Bottom line, I can't buy the gun until I come up with something the Feds will accept as proof of actual place of residence and the dealer needs to photo copy the item and put it on file.

A conversation ensues and according to the dealer, the requirement is seeing rigid enforcement starting about 3 months ago. Of course, we discuss some politics and the dealer tells me the present administration (BATF or whatever they call it now) is more rigid and gun hatefull than anytime in history. Maybe it has something to do with Homeland Defense, I don't know.

Anyhow, I can't buy a firearm of any kind from the dealer or the five affiliated shops until I get my documentation in order. I guess the fact I went through all the hassle for the CCW (and yes the state required my physical address) isn't good enough. Kind of sucks.

 

[R.H. Lee]

You have to provide and proof a physical address here, too. I thought it was just a California requirement.

 

[FPrice]

Ankeny...

I just bought a gun from him a week ago and two from their sister store in a near by town last month.

This makes the current refusal rather strange.

Have you though about calling BATF yourself and asking the question?

my driver's license and CCW permit don't include my street address.

What do these two documents have on them for an address?

 

[flatrock]

Do your utility bills have a street address on them? I know that they'll likely be sent to your P.O. Box, but they might have a not saying that they are for service at your physical address. That would also tie together your mailing address and physical address for them.

Aren't utility bills considered a means of showing the location of your residence?

 

[jnojr]

I live in a small town and we don't have mail delivery so everything goes to the Post Office. When doing business with the state, like a CCW permit or DL they want the mailling address. For instance, if I give the physical address, the state would mail my DL to that address and the Post Office would return the item.

Ask the post office if you can forward mail from the real address to the PO box. Then, you could have your cake and eat it too..

 

[Ankeny]

flatrock:

Yeppers, a utility bill will suffice.

I called the feds and sure enough, proof of actual place of physical residence is required. The problem is, the purchase was in another town so now I need to drive back. I have bought dozens of firearms with just my DL and CCW both of which have a mailing address. I guess the requirement has been in place for a while, but it wasn't enforced until the new agent blew into Dodge. Yeah, we have a new agent and I guess he is about the most anal guy on the planet. I know, he's just doing his job.

 

[TallPine]

Funny, my MT DL only has my PO box # and no gun dealer has ever bothered me about that ...

 

[gezzer]

The dealer is nut's photo copying drivers licsense Nowhere does this have to be done by Fed law

 

[Preacherman]

It's not Federal law, it's the BATFE's regulations that require it. The Form 4473 specifically states that you have to give your physical address, and the requirement for some form of proof that this really is your physical address is longstanding. In Louisiana, where I live, the DL has your physical address on it (no P O Box addresses allowed), so that's usually not a problem.

 

[Ankeny]

FWIW, the agent involved only wants a photocopy on file if something like a utility bill is used, not a copy of a DL.

I wonder if anyone in the BATF really knows what the requirement happens to be. I called Denver and I was told the buyer must list his/her physical address on the form and provide positive identification and proof of residency. One of the dealers involved now has written permission to "use his discretion" in the case of rural residents who don't have a recognized numbering system. The state is full of people with no physical address such as Joe Blow, Box 555, Rural Route 2, blah, blah...

Whether the requirement has been long standing or not, it has only recently been enforced in this part of the state and in other parts of the state it is totally ignored.

As for BATF "regulations" not being "laws", how is it the BATF closes the doors on business, siezes the inventory, and fines the owner?

 

[Art Eatman]

We don't have named streets in my area. Well, danged few, anyway. Sorta hard to put, "Go north on the south county road for about three miles and turn at the three stone pillars. Follow the jeep trail across the creek, on across the flat and up the mountain to Art's house." on a driver's license.

So, in their infinite wisdom, the Great State of Texas put the miles and compass direction from the post office. BATFE is all happified.

But don't try to get there, cross-country.

, Art

 

[jke456]

TallPine
Senior Member

Funny, my MT DL only has my PO box # and no gun dealer has ever bothered me about that ...

trying to understand if this was just a statement of fact, or if he was jabbing at those of us who have to put up with all the assinine laws and regulations.....

MT is montane isn't it???????/


jon

 

[cropcirclewalker]

No, I'm not wearing a tinfoil hat. Why is it that they need a physical address anyway? So they will know where to go to pick up the piece?

Back in yon days of yore, when I was doing my telephone interview with the atf to get my FFL the interviewer asked, "Do you have a dog?"

I replied, "Yes, but why would you need to know?"

The interviewer said, quite politely, "Sir, you are free to withdraw your application at any time." He was very polite.

I guess there was a place on the form for him to fill in if they needed to make allowances for a dog on your property. Who knows?

I still wonder why they needed to know.

 

[deej]

Just be afraid when ATF asks you how many kittens you have.

To stay on topic, I have a PO Box on my DL, and I'm generally asked to provide a utility bill with my residential address on it.

The last place I purchased a gun from asked for one older than 90 days, and the place before that asked for one newer than 90 days. Go figure.

 

[Kevlarman]

This sucks. I'm currently living with my parents again, and as such, I don't have any utility bills.

I know that a mobile phone bill doesn't really count, but what about credit card or bank statements?

 

[EOD Guy]

This sucks. I'm currently living with my parents again, and as such, I don't have any utility bills.

A notarized statement from your parents that you live with them and that contains the address will suffice.

 

[phorvick]

So, I have been using this same local FFL for transfers and purchases for many guns. I go to pick up one about ten days ago and fill out the yellow form and he gives it back and says that I can no longer use abbreviations anywhere on the form except in the place for name and address; i.e., if I am a Minnesota resident I can use MN only on the name/address form as that is the way it is on my DrivLic. Any place else (i.e., place of birth) now requires full complete name of State. He said that the feds were much more anal about the forms. I could not write "Y or N" on the yes/no questions...had to write the words out.

Seems silly, but no really big deal.

Oh, and I do have a dog.

 

[sturmruger]

Did the dealer at least let you put the gun on layaway so you don't miss out on a good deal??

 

[brian roberts]

address

you tell "them" that's where you get ALL your mail, & if they try to send any notices ANYwhere else, & you're hit w/an FTA, you'll SUE them 'til there's no $**T left in their hole!! that get's their attention. i told that to a cop giving me a ticket one night, when he said "you don't LIVE inna P.O. BOX!!!" ( but my reply was in a sweeter tone than here!!)

 

[WvaBill]

I wonder if anyone in the BATF really knows what the requirement happens to be. I called Denver and I was told the buyer must list his/her physical address on the form and provide positive identification and proof of residency. One of the dealers involved now has written permission to "use his discretion" in the case of rural residents who don't have a recognized numbering system. The state is full of people with no physical address such as Joe Blow, Box 555, Rural Route 2, blah, blah...

The dealers here consider the Rural Route address as physical address. So does DPS.

 

[artherd]

UPS Store / Mail Boxes ETC are your FRIENDS!

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Joe Blow, Box 555, Rural Route 2, blah, blah...

I used to have an address like that many years ago. That IS a physical address. It's a specific mailbox along a specific postal route. It's not one of a wall full of post office boxes that all occupy the same building.

 

[junyor]

In Texas, for both your drivers' license and CHL you can specify a residetial address and a mailing address (if different). Both will show your residential address, but will be sent to your mailing address. Not sure if that's a future option where you're at.

 

[crashresidue]

Cheers,

Is "911" active in your area? If yes, then call the local cop shop and ask to be connected to a 911 operator on a "non-emergency" line. Then give them your phone number and ask what address they have listed for said phone. That is all the address you need.

Hope this helps.

Genlte winds.
cr

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

I live in a small town and we don't have mail delivery so everything goes to the Post Office. When doing business with the state, like a CCW permit or DL they want the mailling address. For instance, if I give the physical address, the state would mail my DL to that address and the Post Office would return the item. However, I can go do an early renewal on my DL and have both addresses listed for an additional twenty five bucks.

I don't blame your dealer for not wanting to risk his FFL on a potentially bogus driver's license.

I can't think of a single State where you are not required by law to put your physical address (i.e., habitual residental address) on your driver's license.

In most cases, you're picking up your license at the Dept. of Motor Vehicles, so the issue of a conflict between mailing address and physical address doesn't arise. On renewal, I find it hard to believe that your State doesn't provide for your license to be mailed to a seperate location, although post 9/11 I suppose that's a possibility. There's no reason why you can't pick up your license at the DMV.

I find it hard to believe that your CHL doesn't require your physical address as well.