Denied by NICS: Experiences?

[gezzer]

"It was created by noted anti gunner former Senator Bob Smith of New Hampshire."

Where did you get that totaly wrong ,statement. Bob Smith was and is one of the strongest 2nd admenedment Senators We have ever had. :banghead:

 

[Chipperman]

"However, even before NICS went into operation, the NRA began a campaign to subvert the system. In October, their allies in Congress, led by Senator Robert Smith (R-NH), prohibited the FBI from charging a nominal user fee for each NICS transaction." http://www.commondreams.org/pressreleases/feb99/020299g.htm

"Law-abiding gun owners owe a debt of gratitude to House and Senate leadership, and to Senator Bob Smith (R-N.H.) and U.S. Rep. Bob Barr (R-Ga.) whose commitment and hard work were instrumental in achieving this goal." http://www.nrawinningteam.com/nofbitax.html

"You may be pleased to know that Senator Bob Smith offered a successful amendment to Senate version of the appropriations bill which funds the FBI. This amendment would prevent the FBI from keeping records of individuals not prohibited from purchasing guns under the Brady Law." http://www.potowmack.org/cong3.html

"At the center of the firestorm is pro-gun Senator Bob Smith (I-NH) who employed an arcane set of parliamentary maneuvers that managed to delay the anti-gun crime bill for weeks." http://www.gunowners.org/news/nws9908.htm

That's just a few lines about Mr. Smith's Pro-gun activities. There are plenty more

 

[blackdragon]

raghorn - The appeal took 2-3 weeks...but I'm in Florida, so I deal with The Florida Dept of Law Enforcement, not NICS/FBI. And they tell me that there is no pre-emptive paperwork I can do to avoid this mess

Keith

 

[ACORN]

In the olden days before NICS I had a friend, that had probably bought 20 firearms from me, denied by our local PD. The reason was, back in 1945-47, he and a friend were drinking and got into a fight. The friend shot my friend (confusing ain't it?) in the arm either accidently or on purpose. My friend felt sorry for the guy (they were both veterans, the other guy having some marital problems) and wouldn't press charges or volunteer information. So 30+ years and around 20 backround checks later some ambitious LEO in the local PD digs a little dirt from the past and bounces the application. My partner called and talked to the Leutenant and he let the application go through. Kinda scary to think that one man could make a judgement like that. Where did he get that authority?

 

[MechAg94]

I was delayed once, but it was on Sunday afternoon of the big Houston Gun Collector's Assoc. gun show. The dealer said they were delaying almost everyone.

I have a permit now so it is not an issue.

 

[P95Carry]

Where did he get that authority?

Acorn - sounds like self-imposed authority - and a self-mandated decision. Glad tho he ''saw the light'' and changed his mind.

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

Somebody wise me up, eh? Have I been missing something all these years? I don't recall seeing anything in the Second Amendment about background checks.

Obviously, you're not looking hard enough. It's directly between the line that says "the state shall not be prohibited from bearing arms", and the paragraph about the inalienable right to abortion, regardless of age or parental consent. It's very clear, and I think you're reading selectively if you can't see it. You "gun nuts" tend to read the Constitution very selectively, you know.

........

 

[TheGoodLife]

Somebody wise me up, eh? Have I been missing something all these years? I don't recall seeing anything in the Second Amendment about background checks.

Sergeant Sabre

Obviously, you're not looking hard enough. It's directly between the line that says "the state shall not be prohibited from bearing arms", and the paragraph about the inalienable right to abortion, regardless of age or parental consent. It's very clear,

Yeah, you need the updated modernized edition of the Constitution to read those things. Without it, well, you just won't understand. The Supreme Court used that version for their recent 'eminent domain' theft of private property case.

That is where we are heading, or are we there already?

 

[DRZinn]

Get a credit report. That'll tell you pretty quickly if you've been the victim of ID theft. Make sure you get a report from all 3 agencies. Make sure you get the most detailed report possible, even if you have to pay for it (your bank's loan dept should be able to do that for you if you don't want to do it on your own).

The credit-reporting agencies are now mandated to provide you one free report per year on this site. That's one per year per agency, so you can get all three at one time or stagger them out.

 

[Gaffer]

The last time I looked you could not buy a pistol from a dealer outside your home state unless it was shipped to a dealer in your home state. If you are from Washington and are trying to buy a pistol in Idaho, even though Idaho recognizes your Wash CCW I think the dealer cannot sell to you, if a pistol. Perhaps that is why the NICs was denied.

Long guns are OK in other states but handguns must be from a dealer in the state you are domiciled in per ATF rules.

 

[sumpnz]

Gaffer - It appears to me that he lives in, and therefore is for all practical purposes a resident of, ID but for whatever reason (perhaps because used to live there, or maybe there's fewer requirments/less cost) has his CCW from WA.

 

[Gung-Ho]

Haven't you guys heard? Right after the suppremes said that we have no property rights, they ruled that the 2nd admendment was unconstitutional.

 

[MikeIsaj]

Perhaps you should submit your appeal in the form of a Congressional Inquiry. I know from being on both sides of that process that it is indeed the shortest distance between two points. Even if your local congressman/woman/critter is an anti, they believe in constituant service as the yellow brick road to re-election.

When the FBI or any other government agency, is given a request for information from a Congressman, they do two things; They make sure they have done everything absolutly correctly before answering in detail, and they do it quickly. These inquirys are a high profile pain in the a** until they are answered, and you don't have to be too smart to figure out why it's being done.

By the way, this works on a state level too.My son recently had his drivers license mistakenly suspended by PennDOT and seized by PSP while applying for a lethal weapons certification. The trooper told him to apply for reinstatement with proof that it was an error. That would have left him with a suspension on his record even though he'd get his license back in 4 - 6 weeks. I took him to the State Reps office and after getting proof from Delaware that the ticket had been resolved on time, the rep had the suspension expunged and he had his license back in a few days.

Let us know how this plays out.

 

[cracked butt]

Go back to the gun shop in 3 days and check the status.

I'm not 100% sure how it works, but if you are denied, the state police review the denial and have 3 days to determine if the denial is legitimate. The gun shop as far as I know can only run the nics once per purchase, thats why its imperative to fill out the forms correctly and neatly.

I had a friend who this happened to a few years ago when he bought his first gun. He was held up by NICS. A quick check of circuit court records turned up 3 other people in the area that had a similar name to his. He was able to go back in 3 dyas and claim his purchase.

 

[raghorn]

You guys are great, thanks for all of the input and information.

Here's where it stands now: On Friday I told my wife she had herself a brand new Hi-Power down at the shop, all she had to do was fill out the form and pick it up. Her initial response was "Oh, how romantic ". She said she would have preferred a revolver, but she shot it remarkably well at the range.

I ran a credit report (thanks for the link, Doc Zinn) to see if maybe someone else had used my SSN... no anomalies there, everything looks good.

Yesterday I dropped in and had a chat with our sheriff - we've been acquainted for many years - to ask what sort of local consequences this might have. He said his office doesn't get involved in this sort of business, but that the yellow sheet probably gets forwarded to the ATF. He recommended that I have my wife pick it up, I told him it was too late, already done.

As stated earlier, I have sent a letter to the FBI NICS folks in West Virginia requesting the reason for my denial. According to their policy they're supposed to respond within five days of receipt. So now I'll wait and see what they have to say. I'll keep you posted at things progress.

 

[Gung-Ho]

Well if we don't hear back from you, we will assume you cat has been stomped to death, and your under a hot light somewhere.

 

[yorick]

I've been erroneously denied a couple times. It can be a Total Pain In The Ass(tm)...

You fill out the appeal paperwork - they then get back to you with either appeal granted or appeal denied - assuming the appeal is approved - you take the letter back to the FFL and complete the purchse. If you get 'appeal denied, however - then you get to try to prove to the FBI that you are not a prohibited person.

In my case I've been denied then had my appeal "denied" 3 times - and in each case had to go through yards or paperwork and affidavits and fingerprinting to prove I WASN"T :banghead: :banghead: a prohibited person.

In each case I eventually got a 'proceed' letter from the FBI. 90 ++ days after the initial decline.

After the second time I asked why they had no record of the last time I went through all this - the response was that since they destroyed all NICS records after 90 days - no record of my previous sucessful documentation and overturning of the declines was on file.

The third time it happened I had to go through the entire process all over again - no apologies from FBI for the errors - no information from the FBI on where the bad information is coming from - only that I may now proceed with my purchase - of course if the item you wanted was on sale or consignment or a 'good deal' you can just kiss it goodbye - no FFL is going to wait 90++ days for someone he doesn't know from jack to appeal an appeal....

NICs is a joke and an abomination.

 

[wdlsguy]

In my case I've been denied then had my appeal "denied" 3 times - and in each case had to go through yards or paperwork and affidavits and fingerprinting to prove I WASN"T a prohibited person.

Since you're in Nevada, which is shall-issue, you may as well get a Concealed Firearms Permit, and avoid future NICS checks entirely.

 

[EOD Guy]

In my case I've been denied then had my appeal "denied" 3 times - and in each case had to go through yards or paperwork and affidavits and fingerprinting to prove I WASN"T a prohibited person.

In each case I eventually got a 'proceed' letter from the FBI. 90 ++ days after the initial decline.

After the second time I asked why they had no record of the last time I went through all this - the response was that since they destroyed all NICS records after 90 days - no record of my previous sucessful documentation and overturning of the declines was on file.

The FBI has a system in place just for people in your situation. You can set up a voluntary appeal file and get a PIN number for that file. You will giving the NICS permission to maintain the file. All you have to do is have the dealer tell the NICS that you have an appeal file and give them the PIN number. See the url and check page 8 of the attached newsletter.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/newsletter/0205fflnewsletter.pdf

Here is the text from the newletter.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation’s (FBI) NICS
Section recently sent to all Federal Firearms
Licensees (FFLs) a letter announcing a new
process that may be utilized by lawful firearms
purchasers to prevent erroneous denials or
extended delays because for example, a purchaser
may have a name or date of birth similar to that of
a prohibited person.

This process permits applicants to request that the
FBI NICS Section maintain information about
them in the Voluntary Appeal File (VAF), a
separate file to be checked by the NICS. Potential
purchasers may apply to be considered for entry
into the VAF by, among other things, signing an
applicant statement which authorizes the FBI
NICS Section to retain information that would
otherwise be destroyed upon the approval of the
firearm transaction.

At the conclusion of the FBI NICS Section’s
research, the applicant will receive a letter from the
FBI NICS Section indicating the outcome of the
research as being successful, unsuccessful, or the
information insufficient. Successful applicants will
be provided a unique personal identifier number
(UPIN), which they will provide to the FFL for all
future firearms purchases. The applicant will retain
the original letter. ATF recommends the UPIN be
placed in block 18(a) of the ATF Form 4473, along
with information about Government issued
identification documents, until such time that the
form may be revised with a block for the UPIN.

In the future, the UPIN will be provided to the Call
Center Representative during the initial background
check. In the interim, all subsequent NICS checks
on those individuals with UPINs must be
conducted through the FBI NICS Section
Customer Service at 1-877-444-6427. Select option
six from the automated menu to be transferred to a
VAF Customer Service Representative. The FFL
must state that they are conducting a NICS check
on an individual who has provided a UPIN. The
FFL will provide the UPIN to the Customer
Service Representative and the rest of the process
will remain the same.

For a copy of the FBI NICS letter or for further
information regarding the VAF, you may contact
the FBI NICS Section Customer Service at
telephone number 1-877-444-6427.

 

[raghorn]

Update

I received a letter back from the FBI on July 16th. In three pages it basically explained the mechanics of the NICS system and appeal process. They also told me they had no record of the NTN number I submitted to them in my letter, so they could not provide me a reason for denial.

They included fingerprint cards as well as detailed instructions for filing my appeal, and informed me of my right to establish a voluntary record for them to keep on file to expedite future transactions. They were also very clear that if any details in my submission were not to their liking it would further delay the process.

After giving it some thought I decided I'd rather deal with a local government agency staffed by people who know my name, keep regular office hours and are located two blocks from my home than one located thousands of miles away and surrounded by communications barriers.

I went to the sheriff's office and applied for my state concealed weapons license. Even though I'm currently legal to carry (and this will set me back about $70), it's worth it to know that I won't get the runaround from a faceless bureaucracy the next time I want to purchase a firearm. And if the county discovers a problem with my background check, I'll be able to sit down with a real human being and find out exactly what the problem is.

 

[Looking for Knowledge]

What has happened to this situation? Was it resolved?

 

[Frog48]

I'm curious too... was this situation sorted out?

 

[Prince Yamato]

I filled out my yellow sheet like a good little citizen

You know, the sheets are WHITE now... that could be your problem

 

[AlaskaErik]

Same question as wdlsguy - why did the clerk run a NICS check on you if you have an CCL? It sounds to me as if she didn't know what the **** she was doing.

In Alaska, you can get a CCW that is NICS exempt, but it costs you an extra $59.00 and two sets of fingerprints every time you renew. But you can also get a regular CCW without NICS exemption. Or you can just forget the whole CCW thing and carry concealed legally. NICS exemption and reciprocity are the only two reasons for getting a CCW up here.

 

[torpid]

You know, the sheets are WHITE now... that could be your problem

Yes, but were they white when he posted that back in 2005?