Denied By NICS

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High Planes Drifter

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Saturday, I was attempting to purchase a firearm and was denied, not delayed, but flat out denied. I was convicted of and paid a fine for Simple Battery years ago; but it had nothing to do with Domestic Violence. I was involved in a fight with another full grown man outside of a bar room. The fine was paid, no probation was given, and the case was finished years and years ago. I have no other arrests or convictions on my record; no felony convictions, no domestic violence convictions, no restraining orders, no drug arrests or convictions. Nothing. I have gone down the NICS checklist trying to figure out why I was denied. I can only come up with one conclusion - is it possible that the operator reviewing my record "decided" by thier descretion that the Simple Battery could have been Domestic Violence related? Do they have that descretion? I began the appeals process by mailing off my fingerprints and request for reason of denial. While I was at the Sheriffs office getting my prints, I had my background check ran there and asked if they saw anything on it that would prohibit me from owning a firearm; there wasnt. I just dont get it; I can legally own a gun, but as of right now I cant buy one.:cuss: Does anyone have any experience with this? Has anyone else been denied, what advice can you give me?
 
No ideas whatsoever. I also have 'simple battery' on my record and it hasn't stopped me from purchasing firearms.

Biker
 
Don't worry. Somebody will be along soon enough to tell you that you should be happy for NICS, due to the fact that it keeps felons from getting guns. :banghead:

To me, your situation is just another example that NICS is an un-Constitutional infringement. :cuss:

I don't want NICS "enhanced", I want it eliminated.
 
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Similar Incident...

A friend and co-worker of mine recently attempted to buy his first firearm (a simple Savage .22 LR at Wal-Mart) and too, was denied. Upon investigation, the only possible incident (the only incident on his record for that matter) was battery as well. I believe he was 19 at the time he was charged, the other individual involved in the fight was also the same age. This was an altercation on private property and no domestic violence charges were involved. Now six years later, the incident is back to haunt him. He served no jail time and his fine has been long since paid. NICS becoming more stringent?
 
Biker, why do I suspect anyone being pummeled by you wouldn't feel it was merely a simple battery, but more like an out and out a**-kicking ? :evil:
 
Do you have a common name like John Smith? You can sometimes get false denials or delays if you have a name similar to someone else with a record of a felony conviction, particularly if you decline to give them your SSN number.
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Bartholemew, my name is uncommon. Im cajun, and have a cajun first and last name. I just found out that I messed up on my appeal request by not including the transaction ID in the request. So my fingerprints and request will probably be $!#tcanned upon recieval by the FBI. I have so many questions aqbout this I dont know where to start. I just dont get it; I've purchased numorous firearms scince the simple battery incident and usually didnt even get delayed. Should I get a lawyer to help me with this? If I get this taken care of this time, will it ever come back in the future when trying to buy another gun? If I had my record exponged would NICS record of me being denied still pop up, and therefore deny me again?
 
Hadnt you bought guns before? Where does this leave you know? Do you have to 'give up' the guns you probably already have?

This leads me to an interesting question -

Can you get denied suddenly when you had been approved before?
I bought a handgun about a month ago, and went through the NICS crap (my first time going through it) and I was approved right away. Only thing on my record is a seat belt ticket. I mean, how does NICS work? I see from the FBI's site what the prohibited classes are, but in practice, what are some things you guys have heard people getting turned down for before?

- Does it show ALL outstanding warrants, regardless of state?

I had a friend who had skipped out on his probation in WY while he was in the USAF, and he had been buying guns for years, suddenly in 2006 he is arrested for the old probation skip out, mind you he was on probation back in 1987.

Just curious what you guys think. I dont totally understand NICS
 
I went thru a similar situation as well. I'm legal to purchase regulated stuff in MD, but get denied on the Fed 4473. I am in the process of clearing it up now, as I found out someone with the same name as me has lived a, shall we say, unruly life style. It can get cleared up, but be prepaired for it to take a while. Best of luck!
 
Based on the information you provided,

I would assume the battery conviction is th ereason for denial. Misdemeanor court records are woefully inaccurate or incomplete. It may have simply recorded an arrest record, or the court (disposition) record may be incomplete. NICS will assume the worst, and the burden of proof then falls on you to show that -- in this case -- it was not a domestic assault (assuming you weren't dating that hairy, knuckle-dragging biker at the time?).

I've seen several cases where initial charges were dismissed, or felonies plea bargained down to a misdemeanor, or similar cases. NICS has limited data to work with in many cases -- it all depends on how accurate their source information is. But if they can't answer the question to their satisfaction, they will "deny" by default. And then it falls on the individual to do the research to prove he or she was not convicted, or not convicted of the original disqualifying charge, etc.

The system obviously isn't perfect, but it is the system.

You have two options at this point as I see it: either dredge up the original court records to show the "victim" of the assault was not a domestic partner (good luck), or apply to have the record expunged.
 
nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law
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From the 14th Amendment. Now, would this also pertain to the feds? If so, it looks like arbitrary denials based on merely having a similar name to some scumbag such as this are completely unconstitutional, and thus the burden of proof would be on THEM, not you, no?
 
Based on the information you provided,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would assume the battery conviction is th ereason for denial. Misdemeanor court records are woefully inaccurate or incomplete. It may have simply recorded an arrest record, or the court (disposition) record may be incomplete. NICS will assume the worst, and the burden of proof then falls on you to show that -- in this case -- it was not a domestic assault (assuming you weren't dating that hairy, knuckle-dragging biker at the time?).

I've seen several cases where initial charges were dismissed, or felonies plea bargained down to a misdemeanor, or similar cases. NICS has limited data to work with in many cases -- it all depends on how accurate their source information is. But if they can't answer the question to their satisfaction, they will "deny" by default. And then it falls on the individual to do the research to prove he or she was not convicted, or not convicted of the original disqualifying charge, etc.

The system obviously isn't perfect, but it is the system.

You have two options at this point as I see it: either dredge up the original court records to show the "victim" of the assault was not a domestic partner (good luck), or apply to have the record expunged.
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That does explain alot. Its kind of what I was thinking. If I do have the record expunged, will NICS still have a record of it, being that my denial may still be in the system? Thank you Chesty.


Hadnt you bought guns before? Where does this leave you know? Do you have to 'give up' the guns you probably already have?
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No. As I said in my op, while I was at the Sheriffs office getting my fingerprints, I had them do a background check. Im clear as far as owning, no felony convictions, or court orders to turn them in.
 
Ive been delayed before since theres a felon who has the same name as me. 3 days later they sorted it out, but Ive never been denied. I also got arrested once because they thought I was the other guy, but thats a whole different can of worms
 
Was it a misdemeanor? Every time I fill out those $#%* forms they ask if I was ever charged with a violent misdemeanor or somesuch wording.
 
Im cajun, and have a cajun first and last name.
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Look no further, there is your reason. The authorities don't want "those kind of people" to own firearms. :evil:



To be serious for a moment, racism IS the root of all gun control. Heaven forbid that "those kind of people" would have the means to protect themselves against their oppressors.
 
I have so many questions aqbout this I dont know where to start. I just dont get it; I've purchased numorous firearms scince the simple battery incident and usually didnt even get delayed. Should I get a lawyer to help me with this? If I get this taken care of this time, will it ever come back in the future when trying to buy another gun?
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A lawyer never hurts when dealing with the government or any other bureaucratic entity; but it probably isn't necessary in this case. The appeals process is pretty straightforward. Without knowing why you got denied, it is tought to say whether it will be a problem in the future.

Part of the problem is that NICS records are incomplete and full of holes because many states are still entering data into the system and not always good data at that. One of the reasons the NRA is supporting McCarthy's NICS Enhancement bill is that they feel it will reduce false denials and delays for legal gunowners.
 
Quote" "Im cajun, and have a cajun first and last name."

Maybe Mayor Nagan is moonlighting at NICS.

Who knows? I used to get delays all the time. No denials tho. I was told it was because I didn't start buying guns til after I was 40. No guns for 40 yrs, then every couple months may have looked suspicious. No trouble lately tho.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll post updates as I can. As I said earlier, the Sheriffs office didnt find anything that would restrict me from owning a gun, so if worse comes to worse I can always get my wife to purchase my guns until I get this mess sorted out. I just hate the thought of a restiriction being put onto me like this. Its a disgusting feeling.
 
so if worse comes to worse I can always get my wife to purchase my guns until I get this mess sorted out.
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BAD idea. That would be a straw purchase, and a Federal felony.

OTOH, it would get things sorted out, and permanently.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll post updates as I can. As I said earlier, the Sheriffs office didnt find anything that would restrict me from owning a gun, so if worse comes to worse I can always get my wife to purchase my guns until I get this mess sorted out. I just hate the thought of a restiriction being put onto me like this. Its a disgusting feeling.
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Just be careful with that. She could get nailed for a "Straw Sale". Don't think it would be a major concern if she just started buying guns, that you "occasionally" used.
 
I've got a few small things on my record and never been denied or had to wait . my name happens to be real common here in my state and I know of a few guys with the same name that have horrible records , but still no probs. Hope you get it all worked out . Probably something stupid.
 
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