Nics Check

[Riceman98]

Hello all,
Is there a way to see if you would be denied during a nics check? Can I run a check on myself?

Little background:
When I was younger I was convicted of 3 class C Felonies (Theft) in Washington State. I have since had my records sealed and my firearms rights restored. My lawyer also told me "Juvenile adjudications do not result in a firearm disability under federal law." I no longer live in Washington.

I am wanting to get my CCW. I don’t want to apply and be denied.

Thanks for any info.

 

[chevyman097]

No way to check for yourself.

Just go do it. If you get denied then follow the steps to find out why. If you have nothing other than what you described on your record then you have nothing to worry about. In other words, you wont go to jail for getting denied....unless of course you happen to be on the top most wanted list.

 

[rule303]

There is no way to run a NICS check on yourself. If you get denied, then you would have means to appeal and get it straightened out. You could just go buy a gun, then you will know, and you will have a new gun. Sounds like a win-win situation to me.

 

[Riceman98]

No way to check for yourself.

Just go do it. If you get denied then follow the steps to find out why. If you have nothing other than what you described on your record then you have nothing to worry about. In other words, you wont go to jail for getting denied....unless of course you happen to be on the top most wanted list.

The most trouble I have been since this was a few speeding tickets and a failure to puchase an Idaho drivers license.

Hmmm well I have been wanting an AR maybe I will start building one.

 

[Riceman98]

It would be embarrassing to be denied. Kind of like when you credit\Debit card is denied.

 

[bikemutt]

If you are willing to wait a bit, you are entitled to a copy of your FBI record, if one exists.

Here is a link: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/background-checks

You will need to get fingerprinted, the results should take about 8 weeks to receive. Cost is $18 plus prints which are usually $5 or so from the local PD.

 

[Riceman98]

Hmm I might be able to have my work run a background check. I work for a school district so we finger everyone. Yes they are fully aware of my situation.

 

[bikemutt]

Also, you can go online and order a CONVICTION background check for WA here: https://fortress.wa.gov/wsp/watch/

You need to setup an account, pay $10 with a credit card, you should have the results instantly. Note: this only covers convictions, not arrests and other things that might make a person prohibited, like involuntary commitments etc.

I would almost wager if the WA WATCH report comes up zip you will be fine.

 

[Riceman98]

Also, you can go online and order a CONVICTION background check for WA here: https://fortress.wa.gov/wsp/watch/

You need to setup an account, pay $10 with a credit card, you should have the results instantly. Note: this only covers convictions, not arrests and other things that might make a person prohibited, like involuntary commitments etc.

I would almost wager if the WA WATCH report comes up zip you will be fine.

Already have done that. It took about 4 weeks but it is now coming back with nothing.

 

[bikemutt]

Already have done that. It took about 4 weeks but it is now coming back with nothing.

I would say that since you made a bona fide effort to discover if you might be prohibited because of prior felonies that are now sealed, and you had your right to posses restored by a WA State Superior Court, you should go buy the gun. I can't imagine even the hungriest federal prosecutor claiming you lied on the 4473 if you are denied.

Make absolutely certain you have a court order signed by a WA superior court judge restoring your right to possess firearms; sealing convictions alone may be insufficient in WA to having your right to possess firearms restored.

 

[Riceman98]

I would say that since you made a bona fide effort to discover if you might be prohibited because of prior felonies that are now sealed, and you had your right to posses restored by a WA State Superior Court, you should go buy the gun. I can't imagine even the hungriest federal prosecutor claiming you lied on the 4473 if you are denied.

Make absolutely certain you have a court order signed by a WA superior court judge restoring your right to possess firearms; sealing convictions alone may be insufficient in WA to having your right to possess firearms restored.

Yes I have a order restoring my rights. Yes they are two different things. Sealing does not restore your firearms rights.

 

[bikemutt]

OK, you can take one more step just to be certain all the musicians are playing from the same score. Your lawyer (or yourself if you petitioned the court without one) should have sent a copy of the restoration order to the WA State Patrol, and WSP should have sent the information to the FBI.

So either you can ask your lawyer to confirm those steps have been taken by contacting the State Patrol, or you can do as I first suggested and pull your FBI report. Unfortunately (actually fortunately), now that your convictions have been sealed, WATCH will not report them so it's not a reliable way of knowing if the FBI record is correct.

If the FBI record has not been updated properly I will about guarantee you will get denied. Of course you will have no problem getting the denial reversed, but that might take months. And, you will have to submit a Voluntary Appeal File application to prevent future denials.

By far the best thing is to know WSP notified the FBI, and that a sufficient amount of time has elapsed to allow the FBI to make the changes. Then you are golden.

 

[crracer_712]

On the state of Kansas CCL application, unlike the form 473, they ask if you have ever been conviected of a felony (even if you have had the record expunged).

If you check no, and have had your record expunged, it is an automatic denial. The Attorney general has the ability to, and will view expunged records. If your rights have been restored, answer the question in an honest answer, meaning, check yes on the application, if it is worded such as it is in Kansas. If you have any paperwork related to your expunged or sealed record, you might save a little time and include this in with you application.

I know a few people who have had a record when they were young adults, and have applied for an received their CCL, answering the application honestly.

You can answer no on a form 4473 if your record has been expunged as the Federal govenrment will honor firearms restoration rights that a state has.

 

[crracer_712]

Here is a report to back up the government honoring state restoration of firearms rights.

Firearm Rights Have Been Restored

Currently, when a federal crime is the prohibiting factor, the person's firearm rights can only be restored through a presidential pardon.35 In relation to persons prohibited from possessing firearms due to a criminal conviction, the GCA states: "Any conviction which has been expunged, or set aside or for which a person has been pardoned or has had civil rights restored shall not be considered a conviction for purposes of this chapter, unless such pardon, expungement, or restoration of civil rights expressly provides that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms."36

All but two states have provisions for restoring firearm rights.37 Firearm rights are restored automatically or through application. The conditions for restoration vary greatly among the states by age (juveniles versus adults), type of crime, and the time frame between release from prison or parole and restoration of rights. In some states, restoration rights specifically apply only to convicted felons, which may result in a paradoxical situation in which someone convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence is permanently barred from owning a firearm, while someone who kills his spouse has his firearm rights restored after serving his sentence.

Twenty-one states automatically restore firearm rights upon release from prison or completion of parole.38 Forty-five states have provisions for restoring firearm rights through application.39 A person, after a specified waiting period in which no additional crimes have been committed, can submit an application to the appropriate authority for restoration. Again, the conditions vary widely among the states.

Because these provisions affect the person's right to possess a firearm, it is important for FBI NICS examiners, Brady Operations Branch specialists, NICS coordinators, and ATF special agents to be familiar with them. Automatic restorations should readily be identified by FBI NICS examiners and Brady Operations specialists. Although we were unable to verify employee expertise in applicable state law, FBI NICS and Brady Operations Branch management assured us that their employees, who are assigned cases for particular states, have expertise in the applicable state laws. Because it is difficult for FBI NICS management to ensure that the automatic restoration provisions are taken into account when determining whether to deny a firearm to a person, the ATF should report exceptions back to the FBI. Currently there is no mechanism to do so.

Restoration of rights through application is much more difficult for the FBI NICS examiner to ascertain. According to FBI NICS management, states are responsible for entering the names of persons whose rights have been restored into one of the criminal databases (III or NCIC). If this is properly done, the NICS check should identify not only the prohibiting factor, but also the restoration. However, considering the inaccessibility and incompleteness of some state criminal history records, it is unlikely that restoration information will be identified during the NICS check.40

http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/ATF/e0406/results.htm

 

[Riceman98]

On the state of Kansas CCL application, unlike the form 473, they ask if you have ever been conviected of a felony (even if you have had the record expunged).

If you check no, and have had your record expunged, it is an automatic denial. The Attorney general has the ability to, and will view expunged records. If your rights have been restored, answer the question in an honest answer, meaning, check yes on the application, if it is worded such as it is in Kansas. If you have any paperwork related to your expunged or sealed record, you might save a little time and include this in with you application.

I know a few people who have had a record when they were young adults, and have applied for an received their CCL, answering the application honestly.

You can answer no on a form 4473 if your record has been expunged as the Federal govenrment will honor firearms restoration rights that a state has.

On the form for Idaho it asks:
"Have you ever been adjudicated guilty in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one (1) year?"

I emailed my lawyer and asked if I can answer no to that question.

In idaho the Attorney general does not issue CWP. The local Sheriff does.

 

[crracer_712]

Does it say, if you have that you will automatically be denied?

 

[Riceman98]

Does it say, if you have that you will automatically be denied?

The form does not say that but the law does:

http://legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title18/T18CH33SECT18-3302.htm

 

[bikemutt]

See if you can locate the actual application for an ID carry permit.

Here is a link to the WA CPL application (click the link shown on the webform, it will download the application as a PDF) http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Services/Gun.aspx.

It's easier to see how your situation would play out in WA, the application says you are not considered convicted if you've been pardoned or had your rights restored, but that's right below the domestic violence section so it's unclear if they mean it to apply just to DV or any conviction. Further down though, they state that if you check any boxes yes, and still believe you are eligible, you can supply additional information, such as restoration of rights.

Reading through the statutes it's not that easy to tell how the answer to the question should be completed, the actual application sheds a bit more light on it. Perhaps Idaho's might as well.

 

[Riceman98]

See if you can locate the actual application for an ID carry permit.

Here is a link to the WA CPL application (click the link shown on the webform, it will download the application as a PDF) http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Services/Gun.aspx.

It's easier to see how your situation would play out in WA, the application says you are not considered convicted if you've been pardoned or had your rights restored, but that's right below the domestic violence section so it's unclear if they mean it to apply just to DV or any conviction. Further down though, they state that if you check any boxes yes, and still believe you are eligible, you can supply additional information, such as restoration of rights.

Reading through the statutes it's not that easy to tell how the answer to the question should be completed, the actual application sheds a bit more light on it. Perhaps Idaho's might as well.

Here is the Idaho app. It has no direction of how to answer the questions.

http://www.adasheriff.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=Vev0dX2IR2w=&tabid=144

 

[bikemutt]

I dunno, they sure aren't making it easy.

Reading the statutes here: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5/atf-p-5300-5-idaho.pdf, it appears if you answer the question No, once the ID state patrol runs the fingerprint check with the FBI they will see the convictions, the fact they've been vacated, and that your firearms rights were restored.

Then, if you believe this part: "The sheriff shall not issue a license before receiving the results of the records check and must deny a license if the applicant is disqualified under any of the criteria listed in paragraphs (a) through (n) of subsection (1) of this section."

It would not be the first time I've seen a State where you can own guns and buy guns but they will not issue a carry permit.

 

[Riceman98]

I think I might just apply for the Washington cpl. It's only a 6 hour drive and Idaho will honor the Washington cpl.

 

[Riceman98]

I just called the sheriff's office here in Boise. I was told by the lady that since I have had my records sealed and my rights to own firearms restored I could answer no to that question. I am waiting to get a replacement card for hunters ed for proof of firearms training. As soon as I get that I will submit my application.

 

[bikemutt]

Either way it sounds like you're covered. Good luck, be safe.

 

[Autolycus]

Best of luck. So what kind of gun will you be getting?

 

[crracer_712]

Yep, good luck and be safe. In the state of Kansas, on the application, the list the exclusions, or rather they tell you that if you check yes to the felony, they also show in what ways you can still be able to get your CCL.

It's not clear if the record HAS to be expunged, but the time frames ARE clear on elapsed time after completed sentence, 5 to 10 years, depending on the charge. If you don't qualify on either the 5 or 10 year firearms ban, then you are banned from firearms for life, much less the CCL.