denied permit in 2003 in NY, going to reapply need thoughts.

[Kirch]

I was denied my pistol permit in 2003 from Judge Jerry Scarano in Saratoga County. Am considering reapplying and want to run it by a few people on here to see what exactly I should do. Applicaltion was denied based on " general course of conduct following a few arrests" I'll list them out

1992 charged w/ felony assault and resisting arrest. Plead to misdemeanor assault. fight at a concert.
1998 charged w/ DWI, plead to DWAI
2001 charged w/ felony assault, charges dropped. bar fight.
2002 charged w/ misdemeanor assault and criminal mischief, plead disorderly conduct. bar fight, resulted in bouncers thumping other guy and me being blamed.

After typing the above I feel like a damn criminal. I haven't been a perfect citizen. all of the arrests were around my college years, single, at bars, etc which were full of testosterone d-bags. which resulted in a few fights here and there.

Other than that, I feel I look very good on paper. Since graduating from RIT in 1998 w/ a 3.7 GPA I have been employeed as a Mechancial Engineer ever since. I've only worked for 2 employers in the past 14 years. I'm currently working for General Electric. In addition, I'm a real estate investor and manage 27 rental units in Saratoga and Warren County. I'm an active member at the local range, were I shoot trap, skeet, rifle, archery etc. I'm a life time NYS super sportsman licence holder. Hunting is my passion!!

Only blem that may show up is a traffic infraction for going 107 in a 55 in my C6 Corvette. I grabbed a couple gears while passing a car. any of you that have fast cars know that a few gear redlines and you're well over the speed limit. In stead of possibly losing my license the judge offered 2 disorderly conduct tickets and no points on my license. Have 4 vehicles to insure I figured this was the smartest finicial decision I could make at that point in time. I've since gotten into trapping and would like to carry a side arm. I only need hunting / target.

that said, I have a few questions.

1. what are my odds of getting a permit? even though I was denied in 2003.
2. does the permit denied in 2003 show up?
3. I here there is a new judge in Saratoga County, how is he/she?
4. I'm pretty good friends with the Saratoga County under sheriff. Should I leverage that?
5. I own many properties in warren county, one is used as a summer home. I know it technically isn't my residence, but could I apply there?
6. the above arrests are the ones I recall. there may be a discon or 2 out there that I don't remember. that said, were can i get a COMPLETE list of everything I've eveer been charged with?

basically, I was a college bar rat punk at one point in time and that got me into a few fights. other than that i'm a good guy. I've done A LOT of growing up in the past 9 years. Have a lovely wife and 3 year old daughter. my record reflects ive learned from mistakes.

what are your thoughts?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Move out of New York.

 

[KW84]

It's called CRD, Certificate of Relief from Disabilities. From my quick look at the details, you are eligible.
source: http://www.americanpardons.com/clear_your_record/state_by_state_policies/

 

[Birch Knoll]

Well.

In a perfect world, one would not need a judge's permission to carry a handgun. But New York State, even the best parts thereof, is far from a perfect world. And although you may be a fine upstanding citizen now, you have a pretty extensive history of irresponsible behavior which would probably give any judge pause. When you can't even remember for sure all the crimes with which you have been charged, you can expect difficulties getting a pistol permit.

1. what are my odds of getting a permit? even though I was denied in 2003.

I'm no expert on NYS or Saratoga County pistol permit standards, but it has been my experience that judges tend to uphold their predecessor's decisions.

2. does the permit denied in 2003 show up?

Probably. And it's likely that the permit application will ask if you have ever been denied, where, when, and by whom. Don't you dare fib.

3. I here there is a new judge in Saratoga County, how is he/she?

Dunno.

4. I'm pretty good friends with the Saratoga County under sheriff. Should I leverage that?

You can try. It might be the only thing you have going for you.

5. I own many properties in warren county, one is used as a summer home. I know it technically isn't my residence, but could I apply there?

According to the NY State Police web site, you may only apply in the county of your primary residence. The law actually reads:

Applications shall be made and renewed, in the case of a license to carry or possess a pistol or revolver,to the licensing officer in the city or county, as the case may be, where the applicant resides, is principally employed or has his principal place of business as merchant or storekeeper;

6. the above arrests are the ones I recall. there may be a discon or 2 out there that I don't remember. that said, were can i get a COMPLETE list of everything I've eveer been charged with?

Try starting here: http://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/ojis/recordreview.htm . You'll probably want to ask if they will provide all arrest and charging history, or only adjudicated dispositions.

 

[bikemutt]

With respect to obtaining a complete arrest record, that may require a trip to Albany or wherever the state police central criminal records division is located. Most public-facing criminal records services release conviction records only.

As far as your chances go, I guess that depends on whether the permitting process buys into the concept of rehabilitation or not. If you plan to test if judicial discretion is your friend in this matter, consider retaining legal advice, and perhaps representation.

 

[friscolatchi]

Saratoga is not far from VT. All kidding aside, put yourself in the Judge's position. Looking at your record, I would not give you a permit with 3 arrests for fighting, right or wrong. It sounds like you made a turnaround, and your degree is commendable. Give it more time, or ask for an interview.

 

[nyrifleman]

I can see why you would get denied in 2003, coming off that string of arrests. The judge's thinking would be "disorderly conduct + gun = manslaughter waiting to happen". Mind, I don't agree with that statement at all: getting a pistol permit has been THE ultimate pacifier for me. Now, whenever I'm in any situation that might escalate into a fight, I know that the smart thing to do is say whatever it takes to avoid that escalation. The CCWer's way is (or should be) the coward's way.

I would definitely try to go for the angle that you've made many changes to your life. I don't believe they ask for traffic infractions, so you should be fine on that count. If you're friends with the under-sheriff, try to get him to be a character reference. Above all, good luck!

 

[Davek1977]

I don't have any legal standing to base this upon, but I'm guessing that in a place like NY.....having been denied previously, and having multiple crimes of violence on your record, the chances of you being issued a permit are rather slim. Even in SD, which has pretty lax gun laws all around....and the highest number of concealed weapons permits per capita.....ANY crime of violence prohibits one from obtaining a permit. Multiple violent offenses that have not been expunged will certainly disqualify you in a place like NY

 

[BigN]

There are people here that are denied permits for a whole lot less than that. I'd say your chances are not good. On the flip side, apply again, they can do nothing more than say "no." What do you have to lose?

 

[ThorinNNY]

Find a lawyer who is a expert on NYS gunlaws, hire him/or her.Don`t hold anything back.If he agrees to take your case,do everything he tells you to do. If he dosen`t take your case, I`d say your`e probably beating a dead horse,so to speak.
In general, one screw up erases 1000 "attaboys".

 

[drsfmd]

I can see why the judge denied you, and it's likely that you'll meet the same result again.

 

[RatDrall]

OP: Talk to an attourney.

If you can't get your "pistol permit" in New York, move, they don't deserve Americans with the balls to screw up, learn lessons, and improve. Leave that state for the people who chimed in here just to say that they agree with the judge, they deserve their rules, laws, and representatives

 

[m1911.10mm]

I don't know the answer.

Our CHLs in Texas are issued by the state. There is a set of rules that are very clear and very easily found online.

I would think the same is true for NY.

If you are looking for reassurance, you may or may not be able to find it within the rules.

I can't imagine that the process considers that which is not on paper. What I mean is that surely the processor of the application does not have the latitude to consider your college GPA or the property you own or any of that business.

Either your record disqualifies you or not.

That disorderly conduct for excessive speed may not look exactly right, but here in TX, that kind of DC will not disqualify you.

The list of DC that will disqualify you here in Texas is very specific, and plenty of folks would find it actually humorous. Such things as looking through the curtains into someone's hotel room, or maybe producing an offensive odor through chemical means.

Maybe it's different up there. Here it's so clear, that I would never consider recommmending a lawyer. I do always recommend simply reading the rules.

.

 

[Birch Knoll]

Our CHLs in Texas are issued by the state. There is a set of rules that are very clear and very easily found online.

I would think the same is true for NY.

Ah, if but it were so! Suffice it to say that New York State is a very different place, and that the rules, to the extent there actually are any, vary depending on where you are standing.

I can't imagine that the process considers that which is not on paper.

The NYS process allows for infinite subjectivity. A judge need not issue a permit at all. He may impose any limits upon that permit he desires.

What I mean is that surely the processor of the application does not have the latitude to consider your college GPA or the property you own or any of that business.

As I said, NYS is a very different place. The judge can consider anything he or she wishes. In some places, permits are administered fairly and freely, as you might expect. In others, permits may not be issued at all to the little people, but only to the influential and connected. Most places fall somewhere in between.

Remember that Texas' shall-issue permit is a recent thing. It wasn't that long ago that Texas had no such thing.

 

[m1911.10mm]

Having re-read all the responses, I can see that what you are saying must be the case.

If you're telling me I'm way off base, that is.

.

 

[Birch Knoll]

Off-base? No... you're being reasonable. New York State is not reasonable.

 

[Davek1977]

Not to thread hijack, but don't MOST state's emulate SD in denying permits to those convicted of violent crimes? I'd think a history of violence would be a red flag to most people. South Dakota ALSO uses "being habitually in a drunk or drugged state" as a dis-qualifier. Having had 2 DUI's on my record, I had to have a short chat with the Sheriff before he agreed to issue my permit. When you take into consideration the offenses listed are either violent in nature, or a direct result of being intoxicated (the DUI is self explanatory, and the OP openly admitted to the assaults being "bar fights") I can't see most reasonable sheriffs issuing the permit. When you take into account the state in question is NY, and the last offense only being ten years ago, I honestly don't believe you'll be getting a NY permit anytime soon. By statute, you'd be denied here, and when left to discretion, I doubt the Sheriff is willing to risk his reputation by issuing a permit under these circumstances

 

[Supertac45]

I'd say your odds are ZERO. Talk to a good attorney to start with and be prepared to spend some money.

 

[secamp32]

Ask your friend, the undersheriff. Ideally, you would like to find someone that can speak informally to the judge on your behalf. At least that might get you an interview with the judge. This will give you the opportunity to show him that you've turned your life around. I think that would be your best shot.