Depriming as a separate step

[9mmepiphany]

I'm mostly a handgun shooter and finally getting into reloading.

I'm looking at reloading on a Dillon 550B progressive press and was wondering about a couple things that some local reloaders have brought up

1. Depriming on a single stage press for less wear on the main press/die/decapping pin and less dirt in the progressive mechanism.

Would this be counter productive to the idea of a progressive press...speed/time?

2. Clean primer pockets before reloading, while others feel it isn't needed
2a. Also hand priming

Has it been your experience that this is good idea or is it wasted effort?

 

[anotherred]

I deprime and prime before the progressive. I like to deprime before I wet tumble my brass. I know I don't NEED clean primer pockets for pistol, but I store pleanty of clean brass and just keeps everything that much cleaner. Also when hand priming it give me a chance to quickly inspect the cases. I could prime on the press but don't mind doing it this way and it don't take me a whole lot longer.

 

[leefan]

I rough tumble with walnut, decap, and then sonic wash to get the cleanest possible brass before proceeding further. Cleaner hands, reduced risk of lead poisoning, and a cleaner reloading bench and press. And I swear they shoot better!

 

[BYJO4]

I clean my brass first, then size and deprime at the same time. I also use the press to seat primers. This is the only way to take full advantage of a progressive press for handgun calibers.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I de-prime all my pistol brass in my Hornady progressive using the case feeder. They then go to the sonic cleaner, get dried, and are ready for their next loading.

Your press isn't auto- indexing so this is counter intuitive for you.

There is no right or wrong way, there is only what works for your routine.

 

[LiveLife]

1. Depriming on a single stage press for less wear on the main press/die/decapping pin and less dirt in the progressive mechanism.

I use Lee Universal Depriming die with rifle cases so I can clean the cases (I use fine grit walnut media with NuFinish polish) inspect the primer pockets before I resize/trim/chamfer the cases. I hand prime rifle cases to ensure the primer cups are seated slightly below flush (.004") - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7813399#post7813399

With pistol case and carbide dies, I don't worry about press or carbide resizing ring wear. I do prefer to resize clean cases and I clean the cases before resizing.

Would this be counter productive to the idea of a progressive press...speed/time?

Since I know you shoot matches, I would focus more on producing accurate and RELIABLE reloads so they don't slow you down during a match stage from failure to feed/failure to fire rounds that require a racking of the slide to chamber another round (see comments below for reloading for match shooting).

2a. Also hand priming

With pistol cases, for match and defensive rounds that must go bang, I will resize the cases first (which also happens to deprime the spent primers) and chamber check in barrels with tightest chambers to cull out overly expanded case base (hot loads fired in loose/less supported chambers) that won't allow fully chambering of the finished rounds (slide not going to full battery that requires a rack of the slide during a match stage will rob you of precious time off of your score).

I prefer to hand prime match and defensive loads so I can "feel" the tip of the anvil set against the priming compound. If you use mixed range brass, the cases may have varying primer pocket depths. Since primer cup/anvil feet length varies by primer brand, just seating primer to flush may not ensure reliable primer ignition. I have seen too many "clicks" instead of "bang" on match stages that required a racking of slide to eject a reloaded round with high primer as the offending round fired on second primer strike after the match stage.

Wolf/Tula/Fiocchi primers have slightly larger diameter primer cups than CCI/Winchester/Magtech primers and especially in once-fired brass or S&B/RWS cases with tighter primer pockets, the primers may not readily seat below flush. If you end up bench priming your match loads, you can test different brand primers on the Dillon 550B to see how the primers seat and ignite with the brass you are reloading with (One benefit to larger cup primers is that they can extend the life of cases with loose primer pockets).

With range practice/plinking rounds, I don't hand prime.

2. Clean primer pockets before reloading, while others feel it isn't needed ... Has it been your experience that this is good idea or is it wasted effort?

I have done comparison tests with cleaned primer pocket vs uncleaned primer pocket pistol loads (9mm/40S&W/45ACP) and I really could not tell any difference in the shot group size or accuracy (see posts #80 - #98 on the link) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7810685#post7810685

Unless your load is really dirty burning, residue in the primer pocket tends to flake and compress when you seat the new primer. Even for match pistol loads, I would not worry about cleaning primer pockets.

With rifle cases, I simply clean primer pockets because I deprime and clean the cases before I resize/trim/chamfer them. It's just a habit for me to inspect the primer pocket as I hand prime the rifle cases and clean as needed.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I size, deprime, clean all primer pockets, and then prime pistol brass using the RCBS APS press mounted priming system. This ensures properly seated primers every time. Then I run the sized and primed brass through my Hornady LNL.

I've been doing it this way for a long, long time, and it works for me. In fact, I just primed 3,000 .38 Special cases today, and they're ready to run through the LNL tomorrow.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[cfullgraf]

I prefer to clean cases between resizing and reloading. My L-N-L progressive has a nice spent primer catch system so I use it versus primers getting spewed all over the reloading room when depriming on my single stage press.

As a result, it allows me to hand prime off the press. I can prime 100 cases about as fast as filling a primer tube. Except for the APS priming system on my Pro2000, I am not comfortable using the press mounted priming systems on my L-N-L or my Dillon SDBs.

But lots of folks are happy with the performance of the priming systems on their progressives.

One nice thing about the progressive presses is the user can adjust the process to suite his needs, wants and desires. Not everyone needs to load a bizillion rounds per hour but would like to have some labor savings operating at a comfortable pace.

Lots of good suggestions already posted so the OP can try what will work for him.

 

[cfullgraf]

2. Clean primer pockets before reloading, while others feel it isn't needed

Do not discount the psych factor. If you feel better about your reloads, you will shoot better.

But there are some folks that think I'm just shoveling here.

 

[GLOOB]

If you are going to decap on a SS, you might as well size at the same time. And if your progressive is iffy on priming, you might as well get that done on the SS, too. You can do all 3 of those things on a SS in a combined operation - some presses not so easily as others, though.

Some folks do it like this, then just use a progressive for flaring/charging, seating, and crimping. This takes almost all the effort out of working the progressive.

 

[Sam1911]

1) Yes! I don't see value in decapping pistol brass on some other press. Much slower. Don't handle anything twice that you could have handled only once.

2) Nope. Never.


I use the finest range pick-up brass that happens to land in my brass bag. I use only primers from ... ahhh, whatever company has them on the shelf when I'm looking for some! I do tend to only use Missouri Bullet Co. cast lead, unless the family buys something else for me at Christmas. I get my powder weight set, check it a few times at the beginning, and then check it again every 400-700 rounds, probably. I don't trim pistol brass. I set overall length by the "plunk" test and usually don't even measure it.

With all that (lack of) super quality assurance going on, I can only remember ONE reload that stopped my gun in all these years, and that was a flipped primer. ONE. (Not counting a series of squibs I had once when I had a piece of foreign matter stuck inside the powder thrower.)

I use Lee dies, almost entirely. I do use the Lee factory crimp die for 9mm and .45ACP. Not because I think the loads need to be resized -- I don't. But I use it in lieu of a chamber gauge. If it goes through the FCD, it WILL go into my chambers. And does. So I can forego hand-checking each loaded round of match ammo.

 

[higgite]

I clean my brass first, then size and deprime at the same time. I also use the press to seat primers. This is the only way to take full advantage of a progressive press for handgun calibers.

Same here. Tumble fired brass with spent primers in. Size/deprime and reprime on a progressive press. Dirty primer pockets don't bother me for plinking.

 

[rondog]

It's not carved in stone that you must do it any certain way. Everybody is different, and has different preferences. Pretty much up to you to decide what you like to do best.

Myself, I prefer to punch out old primers first. I may then store them for months, I'm in no hurry, I have lots of brass ready to go.

I do like to wet tumble, I like clean primer pockets and clean cases. Then I prime them all, and again may store them for months until I get the urge to do some loading.

When loading time comes, then I resize them (with no decapping pin), charge with powder, seat bullets and crimp. Not the way everybody does it, just the way I like to do it. But I use a Lee Classic Turret press, not a progressive.

 

[WestKentucky]

I deprime my 38/357 before cleaning in a .270win die. Resize body and neck on rockchucker. Tumble clean in walnut media. Final inspect and hand prime with a lee round top. Load into load blocks and charge with dippers, seat bullets on a lee classic single stage. It's time consuming, but very easy to catch any case issues. I have found a lot of cracked cases this way that are hard to find doing this any other way. I have done the work on the cases that may crack it before inspect, and then the polishing seems to put a nasty black line of funk in any crack that shows up easily. Since I use single stage press my process is different than yours would be on a progressive, but I would not feel good about loading in a reformed case without inspecting it...which is why I still use single stage exclusively.

 

[Sam1911]

I have found a lot of cracked cases this way that are hard to find doing this any other way.

I load on a 550 without a casefeeder, so I am handling each piece of brass. I do usually catch most that have cracked mouths.

However, I've seen more than a few go through with cracked mouths and discovered a long time ago that (at least with handgun rounds) they worked perfectly fine, cracked or not. I do chuck all the cracked cases I find, but I stopped throwing away loaded rounds that were finished in a cracked case. They just don't seem to cause any harm.

 

[anotherred]

Last night I loaded some 9mm plinking rounds, half with stainless cleaned brass, and half with unclean military brass that I pulled the bullets and primers from. I was amazed how much smoother, easier the primers seated in the clean brass was.

 

[higgite]

Last night I loaded some 9mm plinking rounds, half with stainless cleaned brass, and half with unclean military brass that I pulled the bullets and primers from. I was amazed how much smoother, easier the primers seated in the clean brass was.

Please don't be offended by my question if you are an experienced reloader (or even if you're not), but did you swage or ream the primer pockets of the military brass to remove the crimp? Would think the unfired military brass shouldn't have been all that dirty to make a difference. But, I was wrong once before.

By "stainless cleaned brass", you did mean without stains? Or was it nickel plated brass?

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Sam said it all in post #11.
Why waste money on a progressive if you're going to do all that work before hand. You're gonna spend $500+ on a progressive so you can only use 2 stages of it?
Hell, if you're gonna spend hours on it anyway, why not just load em up on the single stage?

Doesn't make sense to me, but hey, that's just one guys opinion. Obviously others have differing ones.

 

[LiveLife]

If you are reloading range practice or plinking rounds, not depriming or cleaning the primer pocket for pistol cases for progressive press is acceptable.

But chances are OP will be match shooting (9mmepiphany, correct me if I am wrong) and all the rounds must reliably feed/chamber and go bang or he will lose critical stage time that will decimate his score (believe me, a few seconds that it takes to extract and chamber another round due to FTF, especially if it happens more than once, will knock you off the top rankings - and it does happen and seen it even with regional level USPSA shooters).

If you are shooting competitively, you need match ammunition that performs reliably, period. This requires higher level of quality control on the part of the reloader and more careful component selection. While I don't believe a separate depriming/primer pocket cleaning operation is required for match shooting, I prefer to always chamber check resized cases in my tightest match barrels to ensure I reload with "known" full-length resized cases.

Reloading on a progressive press will involve shell plate tilt that affects OAL/COL variation. I found that reloading with pre-resized cases produces more consistent OAL/COL and makes progressive reloading more effortless and smoother - YMMV.

I also perform barrel drop test and neck tension check (by feeding/chambering from the magazine) as my final QC with the finished rounds regardless whether they are for match/defensive shooting or range practice/plinking rounds.

 

[HexHead]

The only time I deprime separately is for military brass, where I'm going to swage the primer pockets. I don't want to run the brass through the sizing die on my 550 twice.

 

[Captaingyro]

Another advantage of depriming and sizing prior to loading on a progressive is that you can use each station on the progressive for a separate step. In a five-station press, you are forced to combine steps in a single station at least once, and twice if you want to powder check (size/deprime, flare, drop, check, seat/crimp). That's seven steps in five stages, plus the eighth step (priming) between two of the others. Almost half of all problems with progressives happen during the priming step, and by eliminating that, plus two others, you make your progressive loading much simpler and hassle-free.

Starting with sized and primed cases, your stations are: flare, drop, check, seat, crimp. It's simple, fast, and accurate.

 

[johnandersonoutdoors]

I have a Redding single state press that I have been using for the whole process for the last year or so, but recently added a dillon 550 to my bench.

Now, I generally follow these steps for my volume 9mm handloads.
-soak dirty range brass for 30 minutes and let dry (this removes most of the crud)
-resize/deprime on single stage
-wet tumble to clean the brass very well
-then everything else happens on the 550

This keeps the 550 clean and allows for a little more control over the process in my mind.

 

[cfullgraf]

Sam said it all in post #11.
Why waste money on a progressive if you're going to do all that work before hand. You're gonna spend $500+ on a progressive so you can only use 2 stages of it?
Hell, if you're gonna spend hours on it anyway, why not just load em up on the single stage?

Doesn't make sense to me, but hey, that's just one guys opinion. Obviously others have differing ones.

Right, the progressive press reduces case handling and work load, even in my case where i break up the process into two stages.

While separating resizing from reloading with cleaning and hand priming in between, I still make tons more ammunition than I can shoot. I reduce my work load, get more chance to inspect things during the process and I prevent re-work. i hate re-work.

My rates on my progressive are still 3 to 4 times faster (instantaneous rates while stroking the handle are 5 to 6 times faster) than on my single stage so why wouldn't I use a progressive.

Besides, I enjoy working at the reloading bench.

That's just one guy's opinion.

One of the beauties of progressive presses is that the individual can adjust the process to his liking.

 

[3GunEric]

Don't spare the Dillon. It is a tank and meant to be used.

I use it as a single stage when mass resizing.
Clean it and then use as progressive.

 

[morcey2]

I usually deprime separately with a universal depriming die then clean (and decrimpify if necessary) the primer pockets on rifle brass. I have two lee collet neck-size dies with the decapping pins purposefully broken off because of some stupidity on my part. That, and the increasing amount of military 30-06 brass I've been acquiring just make it easier for me to decap on it's own step. I'm probably going to pick up another SS press just for that purpose.

Matt