Diagnosing a 1911 failure to feed

[sbwaters]

My first two failures to feed after almost 1000 rounds through my cleaned and oiled Springfield Armory Trophy Match 1911 using Mec Gar mags -- Hornady .45 200 gr. HAP bullets loaded w/ 4.8 gr TiteGroup in Starline brass of .892-.893 trim crimped .473, all between 1.236 and 1.240 COL. They passed a Wilson gauge test before and after.

The COL measured after the fact had been reduced to 1.231-1.233. No damage to the cases. both bullets stuck halfway into the chamber.

The mags have been reliable over several thousand rounds, but I do notice that, loaded with eight rounds, the top round tends to inch forward in the mag.

The HAP is shaped like an XTP hollow point.

I don’t like any failures. Perhaps I should go back to round nose, but I find the HAPs are more accurate. [I might go back anyway, the HAP 200s are hard to find now.]

Your thoughts?

 

[243winxb]

2 out of 1000, normal.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

Back in the day I bought a Colt that had been gone over by someone who knew what they were doing. It was so good that I could feed, and eject fired cases with ease. Never had a jam with in spec ammo (had a few failures to chamber due to out of spec. reloads.). Man I wish I would have kept that gun. A good 1911 should not jam with good ammo.

 

[edwardware]

. . . both bullets stuck halfway into the chamber.

That description covers an enormous variety of 1911 malfunctions. We need more detail.

Focus on the attitude of the cartridge in the chamber (including angle, bullet ogive contact if any, 'feed' ramp to case contact if any), relationship of the rim to the extractor and breech face, etc. Be specific with your terminology, ie is the bullet contacting the chamber wall, or is it really the case? When the jamb occurs, is the cartridge already aligned in the chamber, or is it still angling upward as the rim slides up the breech face?

 

[AZAndy]

I've had that happen due to extractor tension problems, but that's not the only thing that can do it.

 

[mjsdwash]

Ive found that the most strange feed problems are sometimes caused by a week recoil spring. Under recoil, the slide moves slightly faster, and the rounds come out of the mag slightly, and when the slide returns, the cases are already heading into the chamber. Ive seen very light springs result in a live round double feed for this reason. Mag springs help to, but 8 round mags will. never be perfect. Given your good record so far, I would replace that spring and see what happens. I get about 600 rounds before they start loosing legnth, and about 3000 before they get bad enough to replace. Either way, Ive seen your problem caused by this, and overtight extractors, so its worth a shot. If you have a way to test the pull, I try for 13 to open the slide. Im assuming you have not adjusted the extractor? Too tight, and they push the case bottom down, and the nose up, causing that same problem.

 

[VinnAY]

These 8rd versions have the design compromised to get that 8th rd in there, I never use 8s, only 7s but then I agree above that 2 out of 1000 should be well within an acceptable failure rate, after all, 100% is rather unrealistic.

 

[rskent]

I've had that happen due to extractor tension problems, but that's not the only thing that can do it.

Extractor has to be number two, right after magazines.
OP, You said you cleaned and oiled it. Did you detail strip your slide and check your extractor tension?
I’m not familiar with Mec Gar mags. Do they have the correct feed lips for the style of bullet you are using?

http://how-i-did-it.org/magazines2/read-my-lips.html

http://how-i-did-it.org/magazines/feeding-time.html

 

[BILLG]

If the case stuck halfway in the bbl as you said it is an ammo issue not a gun or magazine issue.Do you use a case gauge or drop every round in the bbl removed from your gun?

 

[murf]

clean real good under the extractor hook? a hard carbon buildup in a tough-to-reach area might cause problems.

luck,

murf

 

[sbwaters]

Thanks for the education and the good questions to ask.

I case gauge every round.
I detail stripped the slide, cleaning the extractor and firing pin. I don’t know how to check extractor tension.

Focus on the attitude of the cartridge in the chamber (including angle, bullet ogive contact if any, 'feed' ramp to case contact if any), relationship of the rim to the extractor and breech face, etc.
The cartridge was tipped up, halfway in the chamber passed the feed ramp. The HAP has an angled, not a round ogive. As I recall the top of the back of the bullet was against the top of the chamber.

The feed lips of the MecGar magazine are hybrid, which should work better with HAP-style bullets. I will be trying CheckMate mags as soon as they arrive in the mail.

I did clean under the extractor hook. I have found that Hornady One Shot cleans well and leaves no residue to clog.

Again, thank you all. Next time it happens, if it happens, I’ll try to shoot pix.

Meantime I am going to be trying more Round Nose 230 gr. Blue Bullets that turned out to be surprisingly accurate.

 

[BSA1]

Does it function ok with other brands of hollowpoints?

I now that generally speaking hollowpoints expand and create larger wound channels but in the 1911 I like plain old 230 gr. pumpkin ball.

 

[JeffG]

I'm old school, especially with the 1911. Jeff Cooper had the opinion that 100% reliability is the goal of any combat handgun. To paraphrase his opinion and add mine, that's why the 1911 and the 230gr FMJ were a package.
Any deviation from that introduces variables of bullet ogive, OAL, feed ramp angle and contact, and powder burn rate. These affect time-pressure curve, which affects recoil impulses; affecting extraction and ejection speeds and dwell times.
For me, a 1911 used for self defense, is the 230gr FMJ classic round dome bullet. Target uses are less critical in the instances of a malfunction, and can be experimented with. Having said that, there are numerous top notch custom shops that can improve the reliability with various rounds,but I prefer a stock 1911.
Another note, number your magazines, 1,2,3,etc. That way you can rule out a particular magazine glitching, during malfunctions.

 

[Ramone]

One of my 1911s will ftf a Winchester 230gr Ranger SXT about once in 30 rds. So I switched to 230 great Remington Golden Sabers for my EDC load. They function reliably in all my .45s.

To check extractor tension, remove slide, take out barrel, slide a round up into place under the hook.

It should go into place easily, with just a little rotation, and stay in place when the slide is turned over ( right side up) and shaken gently.

A failure at this point can also be the result of a burr or rough spot on the breach face, or most likely with reloads, an irregularity on the case rim.

Another possibility is that a poorly fit firing pin stop is allowing the extractor to rotate slightly. The tip of a fine common screwdriver can be fit under the hook, and should reveal any rotation when wiggled.

Really, IMO, 2 ftf out of 1k+ rounds would not concern me terribly. If you haven't already done it, numbering your magazines will help diagnose the issue if it reoccurres.

Edited to add:

In the above, I'm assuming that your pistol has a proper traditional internal extractor, and not a new fangled external extractor, which is the work of the Devil.

 

[murf]

the hornady manual has the hap 200 gn load col @ 1.230".

fyi,

murf

 

[sbwaters]

I'm assuming that your pistol has a proper traditional internal extractor
Yes.

the hornady manual has the hap 200 gn load col @ 1.230".
For the configuration Hornady used to generate it’s load data. I started there and laddered my own load data and overall length that still plonked and twisted in the barrel while generating the best accuracy.

My newest surprise was how accurate the Blue Bullet 230 gr. RN are. If I find they are consistently as accurate as the HAP, I will have found a round nose my barrel really likes.