Dialing in Percussion Cap Reliability

[44 Dave]

I have listened ti 45 Dragoon for years and he has never steered me wrong. The first thing I do (right out of the box) is get the arbor and cylinder/barrel gap correct after the gun functions as one piece ofther things follow, next is the cap rake.

 

[gtrgy888]

I am not a fan of the cap seating methods you describe... at all. If you have only two kinds of caps available to you then perhaps two sets of nipples with the cones fitted (via drill motor and file treatment) for each of the cap types you have. I’ve been using Remington 10’s for many years now and all of these Colts have cones which fit the caps. I mean fit. They slide on with hardly any pressure at all, stay put through any kind of activity, they’re nearly 100% waterproof in place, and they don’t fall into the works when fired. That’s how it’s supposed to function, as Sam Colt intended... Sticks and using screwdriver handles as levers against the hammer is much less than ideal.

WRT substitute powders, I’m currently experimenting with T7 and I’ve used Pyrodex in the past. Never had to add a kicker of black powder as some suggest, They light off just fine, with no hesitation, and they’re slightly more powerful than GOEX 3f black powder, but neck and neck with Swiss.

Remington #10’s probably fit perfectly. Too bad they’re getting scarce. I feel better taking a moment to press down and mold the undersized brass than to shave the cones to only fit CCI’s. When I can find Remington caps they’ll probably be my preferred pick like everyone else.

 

[gtrgy888]

The arbor length is easy to do. Just a good thick washer or 2 in the bottom of the arbor hole that will keep the barrel from binding the cylinder with the wedge in tight is all you need.

The Remington revolver is a good platform but your '51 open top is stronger. If they took the time to build them (ot) right, they wouldn't be as affordable.

Mike

I hadn’t considered that Ubertis tapered the arbor or that it could be fixed with brass washers if undersized. What’s a good source for washers of the right size? I could probably fix this in one morning no problem.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Some 10mm steel (why use brass?) washers, or a bolt/drill bit that you could cut (hacksaw/dremel) a section out of for a single spacer. Either method, you can "zero in" on your final setup using some 220 grit sandpaper on a flat surface.

More info later.

Mike

 

[Rich1939]

Hi Expat, Uberti has decided that tapering the arbor so it's an interference fit in the barrel lug is the right way to fix the short arbor problem. Seen several like that recently. Makes it a real pain to separate the 2 pieces.

Seems to me that the correct way to fix the short arbor problem is QC the the arbor bore depth. I have seen pictures of that being drilled all the way through. Better yet, QC both the arbor and the arbor bore. JMO

 

[Rich1939]

Ok, 44 Dave and Jackrabbit 1957 are correct, the 90° thing doesn't work. The "for sure" way is to drop a thin washer into the arbor hole and assemble the revolver. If it's anything but a late model Pietta (starting around 2011 or so ? . . .), you'll be able to . . . proof that the arbor is short.

If you'll keep adding thin or thick washers you'll eventually have slightly too much of a "shim stack". At that point, you can thin one down gradually untill the thickness is correct for the barrel lug to contact the frame (at the alignment pins) and still have a relatively decent barrel /cyl clearance with no binding of the cylinder when the wedge is driven in. That's a way of correcting the short arbor problem.

Better would be to get your shim stack done and then measure that stack and make a single piece spacer to replace the stack ( maybe part of an appropriate sized drill bit). You can use an epoxy to hold the spacer in the arbor hole so you won't have to keep up with it every time you disassemble the revolver.

So, there ya go . . . easy enough for a good fix with no special machines.

Mike

Thank you Mike! That seems workable enough even for someone with poor vision.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Thanks guys.

"More info"

Gtrgy888, if you want to use brass, it's your choice but also, it may be easier to "work" and, when you get what you want , you can make a steel copy. Personally, I would never use brass in mine or a customers revolver. Anyway, another way to do this (and a little quicker) is to get your single spacer "close" but on the generous side ( + .003 or .004") and then you can dress the arbor end down to get your bbl/cyl clearance "number" ( I like .0025" - .003"). I'm just used to doing it that way. THE PROBLEM doing it that way is any time you remove material from the arbor end, the wedge slot gets slightly wider. I compensate for that with an "adjustable wedge bearing" (flat ended 1/4 X 28 set screw) installed in the end of the arbor (through to the wedge slot! It's a "WEDGE bearing " !! Lots of folks miss that) . Not only does it restore the full use of the factory wedge, it allows the owner to adjust the depth of the wedge install . . . in case of re-holstering problems (CAS). It's never bad to have options

So, there ya go . . .

Mike

 

[gtrgy888]

Thanks guys.

"More info"

Gtrgy888, if you want to use brass, it's your choice but also, it may be easier to "work" and, when you get what you want , you can make a steel copy. Personally, I would never use brass in mine or a customers revolver. Anyway, another way to do this (and a little quicker) is to get your single spacer "close" but on the generous side ( + .003 or .004") and then you can dress the arbor end down to get your bbl/cyl clearance "number" ( I like .0025" - .003"). I'm just used to doing it that way. THE PROBLEM doing it that way is any time you remove material from the arbor end, the wedge slot gets slightly wider. I compensate for that with an "adjustable wedge bearing" (flat ended 1/4 X 28 set screw) installed in the end of the arbor (through to the wedge slot! It's a "WEDGE bearing " !! Lots of folks miss that) . Not only does it restore the full use of the factory wedge, it allows the owner to adjust the depth of the wedge install . . . in case of re-holstering problems (CAS). It's never bad to have options

So, there ya go . . .

Mike

That’s a mite ambitious for me, but I got two #6 steel washers today sanded to fit in the arbor channel so the frame just barely touches the barrel assembly with no light visible between them. The wedge is a loose fit, so it will require very slight hammering to get it wide enough to effectively ‘wedge’ rather than wiggle itself to death with each shot. I had a gunsmith reinstall the arbor using some epoxy to tighten the threads to prevent a slight wiggle from starting. With the tightened arbor, fit perfectly to the barrel, and a properly sized wedge, this replica is looking more and more like a finished gun.

 

[Rich1939]

That’s a mite ambitious for me, but I got two #6 steel washers today sanded to fit in the arbor channel so the frame just barely touches the barrel assembly with no light visible between them. The wedge is a loose fit, so it will require very slight hammering to get it wide enough to effectively ‘wedge’ rather than wiggle itself to death with each shot. I had a gunsmith reinstall the arbor using some epoxy to tighten the threads to prevent a slight wiggle from starting. With the tightened arbor, fit perfectly to the barrel, and a properly sized wedge, this replica is looking more and more like a finished gun.

Was the wedge already loose?
Adding washers to the arbor hole(bore) would position the barrel lug further forward and should have tightened the wedge. ??

 

[gtrgy888]

Was the wedge already loose?
Adding washers to the arbor hole(bore) would position the barrel lug further forward and should have tightened the wedge. ??

Yep, the wedge could be moved with light thumb pressure and has no taper, so I’ll be trying to widen it if possible or fitting an oversized replacement if I can’t fix it.

 

[Rich1939]

Yep, the wedge could be moved with light thumb pressure and has no taper, so I’ll be trying to widen it if possible or fitting an oversized replacement if I can’t fix it.

Mercy! That stinks.
Well, replacement wedges are available from both Pietta or Uber ti. Maybe be one from the other mfg could work better.

 

[44 Dave]

45 Dragoon has a "patented wedge adjuster" that works better than anything.

 

[gtrgy888]

This is getting ridiculous. The replacement wedges are also undersized, so I’ll need to use a shim or just take my anger out on the wedge to thicken it a bit. At least I have replacements if the peening doesn’t help.

 

[arcticap]

This is getting ridiculous. The replacement wedges are also undersized, so I’ll need to use a shim or just take my anger out on the wedge to thicken it a bit. At least I have replacements if the peening doesn’t help.

Maybe the gunsmith can make one for you.
Or temporarily forgo using one of the shims to see if that helps any.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

I had to make a wedge for my Walker, I made it from a Caterpillar hose retainer thingamabob washer and case hardened it. Had no problems with it so far, I will offer to make one for you.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Thanks Dave !! Lol
Well, it's not patented but . . . that (the wedge bearing install) would definitely be an answer to the "too small wedge" problem. And yes, adding the washer/s should have reduced the wedge slot width.

Mike

 

[44 Dave]

The allen head set screw is ground flat and polished to bare against the wedge but not stick past the arbor end. We use a 1/4- 28

 

[gtrgy888]

I had to make a wedge for my Walker, I made it from a Caterpillar hose retainer thingamabob washer and case hardened it. Had no problems with it so far, I will offer to make one for you.

I appreciate the offer and I just might take you up on that after I’ve played with resizing for awhile.

 

[gtrgy888]

View attachment 979824
The allen head set screw is ground flat and polished to bare against the wedge but not stick past the arbor end. We use a 1/4- 28

When I get a drill set up, this could be a good project!

 

[JCooperfan1911]

The most reliable and best were Remington caps, now out of production.

 

[woodnbow]

The most reliable and best were Remington caps, now out of production.

Not so. Remington Ammunition Company has been acquired by Federal in Anoka, MN. My local guy says they are back ordered but there’s no indication that they are getting out of the black powder game.