Did I get gyped? Bought a SA M1A.

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Retro

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Edit: pictures of the gun is here:

http://www.pbase.com/dsfsdf3432rdsfrq/inbox

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I was looking for a SA M1A, and I called my local gunshop to see if they have one in stock, and they told me that they have a display model SA M1A.

So I went down there and check it out.

It was a slightly used M1A with walnut stock and SA receiver 132xxx, and a genuine SA scope railmount with two leopold scope mounts and a Simmons ATV 4.5-14X40 WA/AO scope. I was told that it was a demo gun used by Springfield armoy to show-case the gun to potential buyers. The price was $1550 for the whole package + tax.

I was such a moron that I ASKED (instead of checking myself) if the serial numbers are all matching, and obviously the answer was affirmative.

So I bought it. And went home, and dissassembled the scope mount and started checking the serial number.

The serial numbers did not match. The bolt has a different SA serial number, and barrel is H-R 7790190, possibily a Harrington and Richardson barrel.

So I was rather pissed and confused at the same time. Is this a kit gun with Springfield receiver? Or is it a Springfield armory reconditioned M1A (as the gunshop people told me). The walnut stock looks new and tne

Any input will be appreciated.
 
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Based on the price the new springer M1A's go for, if it has a good scope and shows little wear on the parts. I'd say you got it for a good price. Wither it is a newly made one, or an old one, each part has its OWN part number, they are not all the same as the reciever. Depending on how much use its seen, 1550 doesnt seem like a bad price. But in my opinion, the way to tell if you got "gyped" is go out and shoot it, if it shoots good then you didnt get gyped. Personally Id rather have a gun that is accurate than one that has all the same pretty numbers :rolleyes:

BUT as far as what the gunstore people told you about it being a demo gun, I have 2 problems:
1. H-R barrel means it is not original to the gun
2. I doubt they would use a simmons scope if it was a demo gun to attract potential buyers, they would most likely use one of their own. (why support another companies product when you could add your own and mabye squeeze another $400 into the deal) Springfield Armory scopes are far superior to Simmons
 
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Thanks for the quick reply.

But what about the non-SA barrel? It is H-R barrel. How does that work? H-R is a part of the government licensed barrels? I vaguely remember something like that... anyone to confirm?

Thanks.
 
Okay, the H&R barrel is a good thing, as this makes it a military barrel and not commercial (though many commercial barrels are nice). There are no serial numbers on that rifle other than the reciever. All other numbers are drawing numbers and have nothing to do with a serial number. The Garand is the same way. Neither rifle had serialized parts other than the reciever.

This is a commercially produced rifle, so there is no such thing as "all matching". The parts will be a mix of military and commercial parts. The H&R barrel should be nice, the bolt may be commercial and it may be military (probably not military).

Ash
 
That is not the serial number, it is the drawing number. 7790190 is the drawing number for a standard chrome-lined barrel (7791362 would be a national match barrel). Individual parts do not have serial numbers, although the barrel will have a date code and the bolt will have a lot code. The only serial numbered part on an M14 or M1A is the receiver.

BUT as far as what the gunstore people told you about it being a demo gun, I have 2 problems:
1. H-R barrel means it is not original to the gun
Click to expand...
How do you know that? H&R is the one of the four major contractors that built M14 rifles, along with Springfield (the government arsenal, not the corporation), Winchester, and TRW. The barrel is USGI, and I would speculate it is the original factory barrel on the basis that few people rebarrel an M1A with a chrome-lined GI part.

Retro, you can call Springfield and they may be able to tell you more about in what configuration your rifle left the factory.
 
Thanks guys!

The H-R barrel has a " H-R 7790190 8-61-T", and the bolt has " 7790186-SA" and " F00046" stamped on it.

Does that mean te H-R barrel was manufactured in August, 1961?
 
The reason I was saying that an H-R barrel is prob not original to the gun was because the original post said that it was used by Springfield as a Demo gun. SO I would assume that it was not original military, but rather a commercial version.
 
So I called Springfield and found out about this gun:

It was made and sold in Jan, 2001 with H-R barrel.

The gunshop lied about this being a Demo gun from SA. :cuss:

Now, without the cost of the scope and the mount, the gun was priced at $1350...

Do ya'll think $1350 was a fair price for a 5-yo SA M1A, or should I take the gun to the gunshop and ask for a refund?

Inputs appreciated. :banghead:
 
Is it worth it to you? If the rifle is not "Used" but is only shop worn, it is no difference who did the demo work. If you want to get out of the deal, then it makes a good excuse, but otherwise, the rifle doesn't decay or degrade with time sitting on a shelf. Personally, I bought mine new for that price 6 years ago.

Ash
 
I payed $1200 NIB for my M1A Scout 18".

I think $1550 for a used one with an off-brand scope and mount kit is too much. Granted, it may only have a couple hundred rounds through it, but I think it should only be going for about $1000 or so.

Then again, I wouldn't pay top price for a factory demo anyways.
 
If you are not happy with the rifle and they misrepresentedit then return it. I would think that they HAVE to take it back if they misrepresented the rifle.

The fact that shops state that they have a "no return" policy doesn't mean squat if they misrepresented what the product was. That's a battle they would likely lose in small claims court if it came to that.

However, if the gun shoots well and is in excellent condition that who cares how old it is? On the other hand, I understand you being peeved, too. It's a tough spot to be in.

If it does work well, and you decide to keep it, I'd definitely let the shop know your displeasure. For that kind of money you totally deserve to get what they said it was. How they responded would decide if I ever bought from them again.

For the record it certainly doesn't look like a bad gun at all from your photos.
 
I think that $1350 is a fair price for the rifle in it's current config. Springfield scope mounts are not the best quality in the world. I had two of them in my lifetime and wasn't impressed with it.

Besides...if it was a Springfield demo gun you think that SA would have put their own brand of optics on it.

$1500 isn't a bad price...not the greatest...but not bad. It really depends on demand and availability in your area of the country. The dealer may have just been passing along info about the rifle that was told to him. If he was a stocking SA dealer, I'd expect a little more knowledge about the rifle.

If you feel that strongly about the price difference, go back to the dealer and politely explain what you've learned from SA. See if he'll give you some ammo to offset the price difference!

Check the trigger group as well. Maybe you have a USGI unit.
 
The trigger group has "7267030-I" on it. Is that a GI part? It has a GI black fiberglass handguard though, which was factory installed.

How do I distinguish USGI parts from commercial parts.

Thanks.
 
It's good to ask questions

you got a good deal. The HR barrel means they put in a USGI part, count your self lucky. As was mentioned, the only part that will have a serial number is the receiver. I would toss the Simmons scope, but the mounts are probably ok.
Before spending that much money, I am surprised you did not do some research. There are a number of sites that are full of info on the M1A.
http://www.m-14forum.com

http://www.ambackforum.com/viewforum.php?f=108&sid=39f2aaa8f259cc2493c8f459719694ee

These two are particularly helpful.

The only issue I see is that they sold you a used rifle, and did not tell you the skinny, ( or did not know themselves).
 
AZredhawk44- Did you buy your scout recently at that price? If so where? That seems better than most prices I've seen.
 
Retro,

I hate to say this, but it seems you got overcome by "gottahaveit". You posted last night you were looking, and today you found one.

Seems to me it may have been an impulse buy, and now a little bit of buyers remorse is setting in.

What you need to do is to disassemble the gun and find out what GI parts (if any) you have.

As long as the gun shoots well, and you are happy, then you did not get taken. But I think you may have learned a valuable lesson. Research is the name of the game when buying any high dollar product, not just guns.

Keep it, if it shoots well you will enjoy it.

bob
 
Am I the only one that sees the problem with this thread's title? This is The High Road, and even though this racist term is used often in our society, it doesn't make it okay to write or say.
Click to expand...

You have got to be kidding me. Quit taking life so seriously.
 
from Randomhouse.com:

"Abe Hollander writes:

If I got "gypped," I didn't get my money's worth. How'd we end up with that? I feel gypped!

The verb gyp, meaning 'to cheat; swindle; defraud' and usually found in the passive, is one of those words that has received attention due to the possibility of offending ethnic sensitivities.

Gyp is derived from Gypsy. Though the noun Gyp meaning 'a Gypsy' has always been very rare, the noun gyp meaning 'a thief or swindler', first recorded in the 1850s, has been relatively common for most of the century, and gyp verb, from 1880, is quite common indeed.

First, we should observe that the very word Gypsy is sometimes objected to. This word is derived from Egyptian, under the mistaken belief that the Gypsies were from Egypt. (In fact they are originally from northern India.) The people refer to themselves as the Roma, after Rom 'a Gypsy man', ultimately derived from a Sanskrit word meaning 'a low-caste musician'.

In relatively recent times--since the mid-1980s or so--some people have objected to the word gyp on the grounds that it is offensive to the Roma, since it stereotypes them as swindlers. It should be noted that the word gyp has apparently never been used as a deliberate ethnic slur, and many people are unaware even that gyp is derived from Gypsy. Thus gyp may be perceived as offensive, but it is never used with such intent."
 
The only way you will know that you were cheated is if you take it to a gunsmith and have them guage for throat erosion and muzzle wear. If the gun is nearly perfect in these respects you were misinformed or deceived, but not cheated.

Early Springfield INC guns were a mixture of military parts and civilian parts on a Springfield receiver. It's not uncommon.

I've got a NM M25 configuration and a shooter.
 
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