Different Missouri Bullet Hardness (18/15/12/10 BHN)

[LiveLife]

I started shooting Missouri bullets with 18 BHN in 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP.

Particular to 45ACP, 5.0 gr of Bullseye/W231/HP38 worked well with 200 SWC (IDP #1) and 230 RN (SoftBall) in producing accurate shot groups and minimal/no leading in the barrels of various pistols I shot them out of. I knew that 200 SWC bullet came in 18 and 12 BHN, but since I was happy with the accuracy and minimal/no leading with the 18 BHN bullet, I did not think much about the softer 12 BHN bullet.

Last year, when I was doing load tests with Promo using 2004 Alliant Red Dot load data in 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP, I found that 4.0 gr of Promo produced accurate loads with 200 gr SWC that produced mild recoil but caused more lead smearing near the chamber end when shot out of Taurus PT145 with decreased accuracy (M&P45/1911s shot this load without issues). It was determined that PT145 barrel bore size was a bit larger than the .451" bore size of M&P45/1911s and the lighter 4.0 gr charge of Promo was not properly bumping the base of the 18 BHN bullet (obturation).

When the 4.0 gr Promo load was loaded with the softer 12 BHN 200 gr SWC (Bullseye #1), it produced better obturation of the bullet base and accuracy/lead smearing improved. This load is now my wife's favorite 45ACP load and a retired friend's designated PT145 load due to mild recoil and accuracy.


What's been your experience with Missouri bullets specific to various hardness (18/15/12/10 BHN)? Do the different bullet hardness factor into your particular load development? Has anyone tried the 10/15 BHN bullets?

 

[918v]

I like their 12 BHN bullets for my 45 ACP revolvers. They don't spit lead all over the frame and forcing cone area.

 

[ljnowell]

I have used thier 18bhn softball with 5.5gr of AA#2 with no leading issues at all. I have also loaded the 18 and 12bhn 200gr SWC with various charges of bullseye, 700x, AA#2, and unique. No problems.

When it comes to the 255 gr SWC in 45 colt I found the different hardness to be beneficial. I originally ordered them at an 18bhn. These when loaded to ruger only specs with 2400 worked fantastic. When I stepped it down to a target load, not so much. I bought some in a 12bhn and foundthat not only did they work in target loads that I could also push them to 1100fps without leading issues also.

 

[rcmodel]

I agree that "too hard" bullets likely cause more problems then "too soft" ones.

Stop to think about all the .22 long rifle ammo loaded & shot every year.

Very soft swaged bullets, over 1,300+ FPS in most loads, very little lubricant, and NO leading.

rc

 

[Walkalong]

I get pounded all the time when I post that 12 BHN is better for .45 ACP than 18 BHN, especially in a revolver. Sure, 18 BHN can work.

 

[LiveLife]

Pounding you say?

I tell you, the 4.0 gr Promo load sure does less pounding on your hands/wrists with the softer 12 BHN bullet.

 

[GaryL]

Thanks for posting the observations. Learn something new every day around here.

 

[evan price]

I cast my own, and I found my own proof that when properly sized, BHNs of between 10-14 were unquestionably hard enough for nearly any handgun except Magnums at Magnum velocity.

The 12 bhn sweet spot appears to be roughly the range of 20:1 lead/tin alloy. Basically, if a standard #2 (HB) pencil can just barely scratch the surface of your lead, you are right where you want it.

 

[Jech]

I agree with evan...I cast my own and using alloys on the softer end of the spectrum has been superior in non-magnum cartridges.

The boolit I always go to first when trying a new .45auto handgun is the Lee 452-200-RF cast from a rough 50/50 mix of range lead and wheelweights. When aircooled and allowed to sit for about 2 weeks, it's in that sweet spot. 2 coats of 45/45/10 tumble lube with a push-through sizing to .452" between coats and they run like a dream. I've tried this bullet on top of the classic 5.0gr/W231 in at least 8 different makes/models of 45autos and it has always shot completely leading-free...even in guns that were thought by their owner to be very leading prone.

Proper fit and proper hardness in tandem always wins the day!

 

[RhinoDefense]

I use 12 BHN on most everything. If hunting elk or bear I move up slightly to 14 BHN.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I use the MBC 18's in all my .357 and .45 ACP loads. I have shot a pile of their .230 gr. RN and 200 gr. SWC outta my 1911. It's bore is as shiny and clean as new. I've never had to scrub out lead.

 

[ghitch75]

i'm gettin' leading in under 50rd with 185gr 45 buttons BHN 12 5.0gr bullseye chrono at 850fps +/- 10fps.....would slowin' down a bit help?

 

[john16443]

Great! I just ordered 500 of the buttons as my first lead bullets to reload, along with sample packs of the 200SWC's. Was planning on using Bullseye as well, but want to stay away from leading issues if possible. Not interested in making major, just tight groups on targets. I'm hoping the responses to ghitch75 indicate slowing down should reduce leading.

 

[ljnowell]

I dont think you are pushing a 12 bhn too fast at all at 850fps. I think you should look at other steps. Are the bullets sized properly? Are you using a FCD? have you slugged the bore of the gun?

ETA: Also, by leading, can you describe it? Some amount of fouling is totally normal. If its caked and looks like strips etc, thats bad.

 

[ghitch75]

whats FCD?.....it is in the first 1" of the barrel chamber end in a WC CQB 1911....my Colt 1911's won't get lookin' like the wilson in over 200rd's.....when i scrub it out it comes out in flakes....

btw there .452...

 

[john16443]

FCD = Factory Crimp Die

 

[ljnowell]

You say that your colts wont get that way after 200 rounds, is that with the same load?

 

[ghitch75]

yes same load.....i just very little crimp with Lee seat die...

 

[Sin City Shootist]

I'll tell you, I would love to see Brad make a .40 S&W softer then the 18bhn. This one particular gun I can't get rid of the leading (18bhn)no matter what I do, although I have gotten it to a minimum. I tried to increase the charge and it only made it worse. I think I'm going to try maybe a 14 or 16 bhn. Oh, I quit using the FCD and it made a big difference in the amount of lead in all my guns that I shoot cast out of.

 

[evan price]

The FCD post-sizes which reduces the diameter of your lead bullet inside the case. In my experience you want to be .001-.002" over the slugged bore ID to get a tight seal. I push 12-14 bhn lead in my 9mms at 1100 fps and in my 44 mag at 1000 fps with no leading. Stop using a Lee FCD with lead loads!

 

[ghitch75]

Stop using a Lee FCD with lead loads!

so you sayin' no crimp at all?.....i just use enough to take the flare out...

 

[Sin City Shootist]

I don't use any crimp at all. The bullets seating die should crimp as the bullet seats.

 

[azar]

I'll tell you, I would love to see Brad make a .40 S&W softer then the 18bhn.

Have you e-mailed MBC and asked? I've been told they'll do a run with a different BHN if requested.

 

[Walkalong]

I bet he will too.

 

[Sin City Shootist]

I was on his site yesterday looking for info on custom casting. I've got a boat load already, but I'm going to give him a shout before the next buy.