Different Weight on 22 LR Ammo?

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BigDog1955

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I started weighing my different brands of .22 LR ammo and have found quit a difference in weight per round. The range is a eye opener, except for some of the Match brands. I'm going to try and compare the weight / velocity for accuracy. I was always thinking the velocity difference per round was the cause of flyers, but now I'm thinking it may just be the weight more then velocity. Any one else compared the weight/velocity to accuracy? :confused:
 
I have been reading that weighting 22LR is a waste of time because the case, bullet or power could be the difference, but it sure helps the time fly by when U have three days of rain and who knows I might get ten rounds to have the same velocity and group just one time for a great pic :) I'm going to find out in the next 8 brands that I'm goin to test ;)
 
Suggestion: Weigh a bunch of rounds before firing, and then weigh the brass afterward. That should show how much of the weight variance was around the brass versus the consumables portion of the round.
 
At the 2015 National Matches Eley gave a presentation about the various stratagems used by shooters, such as weighing, or measuring rim thickness, to find the most accurate rim fire ammunition. All were bogus, whatever group size reductions announced by the prophets of these techniques, are founded on small sample sizes and expectation bias Eley put up a chart of the physical characteristics they measure and control, and it was at least 80 dimensions shown, perhaps more.

No one at home is going to find the most rimfire accurate ammunition in their firearm by making correlations between weight, on a home scale, or taking random measurements, be they rim thickness, or some other arbitrary location. The only way to determine best accuracy is by shooting the stuff in your rifle, and shooting group sizes large enough to distinguish between one lot/brand and another. There is a case to be made for 40 shot groups, which incidentally, is the group size both Eley and Lapua use in lot testing ammunition for match shooters.

Take a look at the Oct 2014 Shooting Sports magazine

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The last article , page 38, is a reprint of a May 1958 American Rifleman article "Assessing the Accuracy of 22 lr Target Rifles."

This article is based on test data, it is a very well planned and executed article. Smallbore prone shooters shoot 40 shots per "match", two targets of 20 shots for record each "match", and there are typically three to four "matches" to determine the aggregate. Smallbore prone targets have four record bulls for 50 yards, two record bulls for 100 yards. This is to help the scorer and the shooters.

You can understand for both the scorer and shooter, just how impossible it is to determine what is going on when five shots will cluster like this. For the scorer, are there any missing shots?, what shots are X's versus 10's when all you have is a ragged hole.

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For the shooter, you need to spread the shots out so you can tell what is happening to the bullets as you shoot. So for small bore, each target is worth 200 points, each match is the aggregate of 40 shots, so for small bore prone shooters, they want perfect 40 shot groups.

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Actually they want perfect 160 shot groups, and they want the groups to be less than the X ring in size. What you find, if you ever have your rifle tested at the Lapua test center in Mesa AZ or at Eley, is that lot selected ammunition will hold the ten ring at all distances but not the X ring.

What the 1958 American Rifleman article shows is that if a 40 shot group is the standard, then at 50 yards (the analysis goes out to 200 yards) than a 20 shot group is 88% the size of a 40 shot group, a ten shot group 71%, and a five shot group 57% of the size of a 40 shot group. Interestingly, at 100 yards, a prone with a sling group is 38% larger on average than if the group is shot bench rested. Small size groups tend to be smaller than large shot groups, it is the way statistics works out, and it takes lots of ammunition on paper before you can really trust your ammunition.

What you read in Gunmagazines, the typical three round, or the now "extreme Gold Standard" of five round groups, are totally worthless for actually trying to determine inherent accuracy. Gunwriters are paid a fixed fee, about $400 for each article, the less rounds they shoot, the more they get to keep, and they are not really interested in spending money determining the intrinsic accuracy of the article under test, they are interested in maximizing the amount of money they keep, and in seeing a sales rise for their customer, after the article. They are, after all, always looking for future work. But understand, what you read in print, is an old version of what you see on Cable Television Home Shopping Club. You are going to be taught only what you need to know to buy. It is called advertising.

You need to shoot enough, and at distance, to have any real idea of how the ammunition performs in your weapon. You need to shoot enough to surface the flyers and dropped shots. A bud of mine, shooting F Class, got enough low velocity drops with TAC-22, that he stopped shooting the stuff.

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He started shooting Eley Black box after that, and started shooting cleans.

Here are two targets, from a Regional I attended, one target is from the Match Winner, the other from a two time Smallbore National Champ. Both of these shooters have shot enough rounds through their rifles, that they have confidence in their ammunition, and they shoot groups like this, prone with a sling, with irons:

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I have asked a number of very good shooters, just how many rounds it takes before they "trust" their ammunition, generally it is a brick of 500 rounds, and I will say, that is about right. Around 500 rounds downrange, in varying conditions, if the stuff is good, it will stay good. If the stuff throws rounds, or you experience catestrophic low velocity shots, such as that TAC-22, then, you will see it.
 
There is a huge difference in the mindset, expectations and performance of competitive smallbore shooters and those of action pistol, casual plinkers and hunters. Not intended to insult anyone but most use Eley BB or tenex in their Anachultz Super Matches and would not expect anything less than perfection out of their gear and ammo. They are not weighing or measuring their Eley rather they are buying the best and leave it at that.
 
Why I'm testing, other then the fun of it, is to find something that will shoot good groups and not brake the Bank!! I'm seeing that the more I pay the better groups I get except for a few :)
 
CZ 452 - 50 yards - 5 -/10 Rounds Adverage

Group Size- Adv. FPS-Stand Div- Spread-cost ea.
SK Standard Plus
.76" -1050 -7.7 -22.5 -.093
Wolf Match Target
.72 " -1050 -7.7 -25.5 -.12
Aguilia Super Extra
.91" -1088 -18 -48 -.039
CCI Blazer
1.47" -1255 -31.85 -107 -.039
SK Rifle Match
.78" -1050 -7.5 -24.5 -.15
SK Pistol Match
.60" -1057 -8.75 -29 -.15
Wolf Extra Match
.68" -1053 -11.5 -39 -.15
Geco Match
.70" -1075 -12.4 -39 -.06
CCI Green Tag
1.45" -1081 -13.8 -43 -.13
Norma TAC 22
.725 -1022 -14 -45 -.138
Norma Match
.775 -1039 -12.45 -35 -.125
Eley Club
.59 -1092 -9.84 -35.4 -14
CCI Std. Velocity
.81 -1135 -16.8 -57 -.05
Federal Target 711B
.79 -1110 -14.76 -50 -.78
Eley Practice
.89 -1167 -16.9 -56 .93
Rem Thunderbolt
1.96 -1200 -45 -145 .05
anyone use any 7 to 10 cent rounds that are not on this list?
 
The next six I'm testing are:

Fiocchi LRN 40 .069 / rd
Win Hyper Speed .0859 / rd
Eley Target LRN .123 / rd
Eley Contact (42gr) sub sonic .079 / rd
CCI Pistol Match .119 /rd
Norma Sub Sonic-22 .079 / rd

Let me know the types U have shot in this price range Thanks
 
BARREL HARMONICS in finding the .22LR ammo is the main issue, w/o having a tuner. IMO. Have you adjusted the inch pound action screw torque to perhaps match barrel harmonics for that specific ammo? Is your barrel completely free floated? Bedding can make it worse, for example.

Good luck in testing ammo that fits your barrel harmonics. When you do, buy a case of that lot#.

For me, a case of TAC-22 purchased in 2014 and a different case lot purchased in 2017, was pretty much the same. Buying buy the BOX or Brick at a time, one is subject to accuracy changes and often rifle adjustments to get that back.

Are you a competitive target shooter or a plinker?
 
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I'm a Old retired plinker, the CZ 452 is free floating barrel, at least a folded dollar to chamber. I have been purchasing all bricks. both barrel screws are at 25 inch lbs. Trigger has the YoDaveKit second lightest spring and the red sleeve with the washer on and the nut up one full turn to get 1.3 pounds pull weight. After I find some good velocity's that group with little diversity I will switch out to 100 yards and start all over, but I also going to switch scopes at that time. My Nikon Prostaff Target EFR is a great 50 yards scope. For the 100 yard testing I going with the Weaver Grand Slam 5x20x50 ERB Varmint, Finding that my eyes need alittle more power.
 
You must be using a bi-pod on your CZ, with those high results at 50 yards? You should be at 1/2" groups, worse case, from some of those bricks, off sand bags. Encountering wind conditions? Have fun testing for your enjoyment.
 
You must be using a bi-pod on your CZ, with those high results at 50 yards? You should be at 1/2" groups, worse case, from some of those bricks, off sand bags. Encountering wind conditions? Have fun testing for your enjoyment.

I have changed the scope, I'm shooting the Weaver Grand Slam 5x20x50 EBX Varmint and see the target a lot better and the results have improved. At 50 yards the 12 setting is great for my shaky hands.
this was 20 rounds Eley Target @ 50 yds
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20 rounds Wolf Target @ 50 yds
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Shooting off the lead sled:
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Might get out this week to test the last 16 types, waiting for a few to come in. I did go thru the rifle and cleaned the barrel and chamber, re checked the pull weight, still at 1.3 lbs. Broke down the bolt and cleaned it as well. All ready for a clam day under 90 deg's. I testing the 27 types by pulling a snake shot 1 10 round set and 2 20 rounds sets and pull snake all thru my G2 chronograph. This will tell me they top 10 brands to purchase as to group size, standard deviation, spread and cost value. I'm sure the good groups will be with + 9 cent rounds :) Purchase a brick of Eley Club this morning at 12.5 cents. The Sk's , Wolf's, Eleys's, Geco and Norma brands have good ammo. That is what I have found so far.. I have tested so CCI types as well, green tag suck's..... U can put that with the standard and Blazer, trash can all of those.
 
Ya, good idea to retest after purchasing the new Weaver. The fun starts all over again. Is there a rifle club that you can join that shots BR, as looks like you are pretty serious?
 
Ya, good idea to retest after purchasing the new Weaver. The fun starts all over again. Is there a rifle club that you can join that shots BR, as looks like you are pretty serious?
Man we don't have a rifle range for 60 miles, so I have to shoot in the Blackhills National Forest and set up my own range, about a 10 minute drive from home, table and everything else every time I go out, got to love the hills. I shoot on Tuesday thru Thursdays and leave the area for the working folks the rest of the time.
stand :
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50 yard set up:
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