Desertdog
Member
I have not, and will never, see a gun jump out of a cabinet, pocket, or any other place, on it's own, and discharge itself.
These idiots seem to think the guns do all the dirty work, make the owners go crazy and have to kill, or just not able to prevent the gun from firing on it's own. It's the gun, not the person holding it and pulling the trigger, according to their thinking.
Differing Views Are Voiced by City on Gun Lawsuits
By MIKE McINTIRE
The complexities of curbing gun violence were vividly apparent yesterday at City Hall. At the same time Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg was denouncing efforts in Congress to shield firearms makers from lawsuits, his criminal justice coordinator was criticizing a City Council initiative to make such suits easier.
Mr. Bloomberg, who joined the mayors of Chicago and Los Angeles in sending a letter yesterday asking United States senators to oppose the federal legislation, said in his weekly radio address that gun manufacturers should be held accountable for the damage their products cause under certain circumstances.
"Nobody's suggesting that they are guilty, but you should be able to sue them and prove to a jury that they acted negligently or recklessly," the mayor said.
"Everybody wants the murder rate to come down," he added. "The only way you are going to get the murder rate down is to get the guns off the street."
At roughly the same moment, John Feinblatt, the city's criminal justice coordinator, was telling the Council's Public Safety Committee that while the Bloomberg administration agreed in principle with proposals to stem gun violence, it opposed allowing victims broad latitude to sue manufacturers.
"As a practical matter," Mr. Feinblatt said, "the threat of unlimited liability without fault will effectively prevent gun manufacturers from selling weapons to anyone in New York City, including the Police Department."
The nuances of the administration's position reflect the difficulties that lie ahead as city officials, spurred by the shooting death of Councilman James E. Davis in July, try to navigate the political, cultural and legal thickets on the path to a workable gun-control law. The memory of Mr. Davis was invoked repeatedly at yesterday's hearing, which was attended by his mother, Thelma Davis.
In addition to fielding comments on a raft of proposed changes to city laws, the committee adopted two resolutions calling on the state and federal governments to do their part to make it harder for criminals to obtain firearms.
Council members acknowledged that their appeals could be largely futile. "This is a problem that is grossly ignored by the state and federal governments," said Councilman James Sanders Jr.
Other bills being considered would require rifle and shotgun owners in the city to buy liability insurance, prohibit sales of rifles or shotguns to anyone under 21, require dealers to obtain information on buyers of ammunition and limit the purchase of rifles or shotguns to one every 90 days. The city's regulatory authority extends only to long-barrel weapons; handguns are governed by New York State law.
Generating major disagreement among the 11 gun-control bills was a proposal to apply to gun makers the legal concept of strict liability — essentially a no-fault application of blame against a manufacturer for injuries caused by its product. Randall Casseday, a spokesman for Kahr Arms, which sells guns to the New York City Police Department, said holding the firearms industry to such a standard would be unfair.
"I can't see how Kahr Arms can be responsible for criminal misuse of its product," Mr. Casseday said. "I don't see how you can do that. One lawsuit would put us out of business."
Councilwoman Eva Moskowitz, the prime backer of the strict-liability legislation, defended the concept as an innovative legal approach that has been successful in other realms, such as disposal of toxic waste. She had a sharp exchange with Mr. Feinblatt, pressing him for evidence that her bill would prevent legal gun sales and saying that his comments merely provided ammunition for opponents of gun control.
"I'm sure this will appear in a National Rifle Association pamphlet, that Mr. Feinblatt, the New York City criminal justice coordinator, said that this will effectively prevent gun manufacturers from selling weapons," Ms. Moskowitz said. "I don't think there is a shred of evidence for that."
Mr. Feinblatt said later that the point he had been trying to make was that the city should avoid gun-control initiatives that are so far-reaching they risk being struck down in court. Legal action, he said, should be reserved for gun makers that are negligent or reckless in their business practices. Such suits would be impossible under the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, a bill before the Senate that would immunize firearms manufacturers.
Edward Skyler, a spokesman for the mayor, said Mr. Feinblatt had echoed the administration's belief that the city should adopt gun-control legislation that would withstand legal challenges.
The city has a lawsuit pending against more than 30 gun makers, contending that their negligence allowed weapons to find their way into the illegal firearms market.
"I think the Senate bill that is trying to establish blanket immunity, and the Council bill that is trying to hold gun manufacturers strictly liable, are really the two extremes in this arena," Mr. Feinblatt said. "The Senate bill essentially says that the gun manufacturers can do no wrong, and the Council bill would essentially say that gun manufacturers can do no right."
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/13/nyregion/13GUNS.html
These idiots seem to think the guns do all the dirty work, make the owners go crazy and have to kill, or just not able to prevent the gun from firing on it's own. It's the gun, not the person holding it and pulling the trigger, according to their thinking.
Differing Views Are Voiced by City on Gun Lawsuits
By MIKE McINTIRE
The complexities of curbing gun violence were vividly apparent yesterday at City Hall. At the same time Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg was denouncing efforts in Congress to shield firearms makers from lawsuits, his criminal justice coordinator was criticizing a City Council initiative to make such suits easier.
Mr. Bloomberg, who joined the mayors of Chicago and Los Angeles in sending a letter yesterday asking United States senators to oppose the federal legislation, said in his weekly radio address that gun manufacturers should be held accountable for the damage their products cause under certain circumstances.
"Nobody's suggesting that they are guilty, but you should be able to sue them and prove to a jury that they acted negligently or recklessly," the mayor said.
"Everybody wants the murder rate to come down," he added. "The only way you are going to get the murder rate down is to get the guns off the street."
At roughly the same moment, John Feinblatt, the city's criminal justice coordinator, was telling the Council's Public Safety Committee that while the Bloomberg administration agreed in principle with proposals to stem gun violence, it opposed allowing victims broad latitude to sue manufacturers.
"As a practical matter," Mr. Feinblatt said, "the threat of unlimited liability without fault will effectively prevent gun manufacturers from selling weapons to anyone in New York City, including the Police Department."
The nuances of the administration's position reflect the difficulties that lie ahead as city officials, spurred by the shooting death of Councilman James E. Davis in July, try to navigate the political, cultural and legal thickets on the path to a workable gun-control law. The memory of Mr. Davis was invoked repeatedly at yesterday's hearing, which was attended by his mother, Thelma Davis.
In addition to fielding comments on a raft of proposed changes to city laws, the committee adopted two resolutions calling on the state and federal governments to do their part to make it harder for criminals to obtain firearms.
Council members acknowledged that their appeals could be largely futile. "This is a problem that is grossly ignored by the state and federal governments," said Councilman James Sanders Jr.
Other bills being considered would require rifle and shotgun owners in the city to buy liability insurance, prohibit sales of rifles or shotguns to anyone under 21, require dealers to obtain information on buyers of ammunition and limit the purchase of rifles or shotguns to one every 90 days. The city's regulatory authority extends only to long-barrel weapons; handguns are governed by New York State law.
Generating major disagreement among the 11 gun-control bills was a proposal to apply to gun makers the legal concept of strict liability — essentially a no-fault application of blame against a manufacturer for injuries caused by its product. Randall Casseday, a spokesman for Kahr Arms, which sells guns to the New York City Police Department, said holding the firearms industry to such a standard would be unfair.
"I can't see how Kahr Arms can be responsible for criminal misuse of its product," Mr. Casseday said. "I don't see how you can do that. One lawsuit would put us out of business."
Councilwoman Eva Moskowitz, the prime backer of the strict-liability legislation, defended the concept as an innovative legal approach that has been successful in other realms, such as disposal of toxic waste. She had a sharp exchange with Mr. Feinblatt, pressing him for evidence that her bill would prevent legal gun sales and saying that his comments merely provided ammunition for opponents of gun control.
"I'm sure this will appear in a National Rifle Association pamphlet, that Mr. Feinblatt, the New York City criminal justice coordinator, said that this will effectively prevent gun manufacturers from selling weapons," Ms. Moskowitz said. "I don't think there is a shred of evidence for that."
Mr. Feinblatt said later that the point he had been trying to make was that the city should avoid gun-control initiatives that are so far-reaching they risk being struck down in court. Legal action, he said, should be reserved for gun makers that are negligent or reckless in their business practices. Such suits would be impossible under the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, a bill before the Senate that would immunize firearms manufacturers.
Edward Skyler, a spokesman for the mayor, said Mr. Feinblatt had echoed the administration's belief that the city should adopt gun-control legislation that would withstand legal challenges.
The city has a lawsuit pending against more than 30 gun makers, contending that their negligence allowed weapons to find their way into the illegal firearms market.
"I think the Senate bill that is trying to establish blanket immunity, and the Council bill that is trying to hold gun manufacturers strictly liable, are really the two extremes in this arena," Mr. Feinblatt said. "The Senate bill essentially says that the gun manufacturers can do no wrong, and the Council bill would essentially say that gun manufacturers can do no right."
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/13/nyregion/13GUNS.html
