Digital voice recorder

[jeff_d_148]

I read a post the other day about carrying a holstered handgun at all times even while inside their residence. One of the replies mentioned the fact that it is a good tactic because if someone knocks on their door they have the handgun immediately available. I agree with that and I carry a weapon at all times.

I also have bought a digital voice recorder and keep it in my left front pant pocket at all times, when I'm at home and out in public. I can put my hand in my pocket and turn it on just by feel and without looking at it, and without the person I'm talking to knowing what I am doing.

I am an honest law abiding citizen and have not even gotten a speeding ticket in ten years. But in the unlikely event that I am ever questioned by police, have my private property searched and/or seized, or I am arrested, having the conversation between you and the officer recorded makes sense for several reasons. In the case of he said/she said, the court will always take the officer's word over mine. All a police officer needs to say is that I consented to having my vehicle or house searched.

I also carry it in case, God forbid, I need to use deadly force to defend myself or my family. Since a video camera is not always practical or accessible, it can help paint a picture of what happened, and verify my version of events for investigators and lawyers. Also once I provide the police with identification, I will not say a single word to them except, "I wish not to speak with you until I have consulted with an attorney and I wish to have them present during any and all questioning." At that point the police may no longer question me. And anything that a police officer says to me after that point and any statements I make will be inadmissable as evidence in court. And having it recorded makes it irrefutable.

I picked mine up for about 50 dollars, and it is the top of the line. It has four different voice quality settings, and on the highest quality it will record for 6 hours. It also came with a cable and software to download the recordings to my laptop. They have less expensive models available. You can pick one up for around 30 dollars. My advice is to invest in one. It just might be the most invaluable weapon in your arsenal for defending yourself... in court.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I would advise one bit of caution - in a home invasion sometimes seconds count. The time it takes to turn on the recorder may mean that you record your own demise. During a true self defense situation, the last thing, personally, that I would be concerned about would be recording the event.

Even the very minimal pistol qualification in the Navy requires drawing from a holster and firing two shots within 5 seconds - and living with a victim of a home invasion myself, I know that is for good reason.

 

[Hypnogator]

Another caveat: In some states, recording a conversation is illegal unless all parties to the conversation know that it is being recorded. Moreover, should you turn the recorder on, and capture a conversation between two parties who have an "expectation of privacy," you could be on the hook for illegal wiretapping -- a Federal felony!

 

[Flyboy]

But in the unlikely event that I am ever questioned by police, have my private property searched and/or seized, or I am arrested, having the conversation between you and the officer recorded makes sense for several reasons. In the case of he said/she said, the court will always take the officer's word over mine. All a police officer needs to say is that I consented to having my vehicle or house searched.

In the event that you encounter an officer who would be willing to commit an illegal search, do you think he'll let you keep your voice recorder?

Another caveat: In some states, recording a conversation is illegal unless all parties to the conversation know that it is being recorded. Moreover, should you turn the recorder on, and capture a conversation between two parties who have an "expectation of privacy," you could be on the hook for illegal wiretapping -- a Federal felony!

Go read about the kid in New Hampshire who was arrested for recording an officer in the performance of his duty. I think they dropped the wiretapping charge, but they're still throwing others at him.

 

[Broadhead]

having the conversation between you and the officer recorded makes sense for several reasons

Any lawyer will recommend not having that conversation at all. Check out this link:

http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/

 

[Old Sarge]

I agree with Flyboy. If you "think" you'll be able to record a conversation with a cop, what do you think he's going to do with the recorder, after he pats you down, empties your pockets? Of course, he's going to play the tape, and in all likelyhood will not allow it to be kept, at least not in your hands.
Home Invasion? Time is not on your side, too much time would be lost, trying to get it turned on, in my humble opinion.

 

[wcb]

Go read about the kid in New Hampshire who was arrested for recording an officer in the performance of his duty.

Flyboy, where can I read that article?

 

[jeff_d_148]

I live in Florida. Does anyone know of an online resource where I can research the state laws regarding this?

 

[wcb]

I would think you could call your local sheriff's department and they would tell you.

 

[Sungun09]

some advice

I heard a lawyer on the radio who advises people to call their cell phone voice mail and record thusly since it cannot be confiscated.

He also advises the officer he is remotely recording the conversation so the officer upfront knows the deal.

also., if I am being somehow harassed by a LEO and I am recording it, even if it is against the law, I'll be happy to play the incident on Youtube. then let's see how much of an issue it becomes.

Right should triumph might...

 

[Flyboy]

wcb:
Here's one from Portland, OR, in which the defendant went to trial and was acquitted: http://www.reason.com/blog/show/123011.html
Money quote: police defended the use of force, including taser and beanbag gun, because "[h]e had refused to drop the camera which could be used as a weapon."

Here's the story I had in mind; it was in Carlisle, PA, not New Hampshire as I had thought:
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,284075,00.html

It also mentions cases in New Hampshire, Miami (a journalist, in that case), Philly, and others.

To be fair, both stories are by the same author, Radley Balko. Exposing governmental abuse--police, prosecutorial, or other--is kind of a hobbyhorse for him. And damn if he's not good at it.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Here's an opinion regarding Florida:
http://www.poynter.org/content/content_view.asp?id=86432

and here's the law:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0934/ch0934.htm

If you read through the whole thing, it basically states that a private conversation taped without the knowledge of all parties involved might be illegal and cannot be entered into evidence in a court proceeding.

 

[Sungun09]

sure, maybe the law says it cant be used in court, but if its blatant proof of overuse of authority, Im sure it would make a splash on You Tube and the court of public opinion.

I would take my chances. If Im in the right, Im in the right

 

[xjchief]

I wonder if a conversation with any agent of the state can be considered private?

Hey, if the police have nothing to hide then what's the problem?

 

[blackcash88]

I don't get all these "seconds count" comments regarding home invasion. I understand the premise of time being crucial, but I'd have MUCH more time if my home were to be invaded than I would on the streets on foot or a car jacking. I always lock my doors and arm my security system. I'd hear forceful entry and alarm noises WELL before someone could attack me and I ALWAYS have a firearm either on me or within reach. I think the recorder is a good idea. Turning it on takes no more time than turning the TV off if something goes "bump in the night".

 

[wcb]

Flyboy, WOW, I cant believe that. I guess they dont want any more Rodney King days again. I thought the issue was an expectation of privacy; who can anyone have an expectation of privacy in the middle of a street?

Sounds like preparation for Police State Days.

 

[wcb]

Hey, if the police have nothing to hide then what's the problem?

That's my opinion of recording any conversation; the violation of privacy translates into free reign to commit a crime under certain circumstances.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

Those police recording devices have a strange tendency to be turned off, or, ehm, "malfunction" at a time that is most inconvenient for the victim.

A good call to carry your own. They've saved some people a lot of grief, and gotten a lot of police officers fired and/or put in prison.

As for the law? Jury nullification: educate people about what it means as much as you can. And if you're ever on a jury, make sure that you judge the justice of the law as well as the facts. It's a privilege that the Constitution mentions (but can't enforce.)

I know I would have a blast on a jury. And I wouldn't take my fellow taxpayer's stolen money in payment, either.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[jeff_d_148]

Thank you for the links NavyLT. It is definately a legal subject that is open to subjective interpretation of the law.

I agree with SunGun09 that even though it may not be admissable in court it would still be a good think to have for YOUTUBE. Imagine if that airman in California had not been taped. The officer would have said that he charged him, which he clearly did not, and the officer would still be armed and on the streets today instead of in jail where he belongs. I would consider it an act of civil disobedience. Jose Louise Valdez is a hero in my opinion.

I believe a police state IS coming, as more of our personal freedoms are slowly being usurped by the interests of the ruling class in the name of "security". It will not come all of a sudden in the form of a social revolution, like in communist Russia. The leftists/neocons realized long ago that there were better ways to wage war against the "proles". Instead we will look back in 50, 100, or 200 years from now and realize that our freedoms eroded gradually over time, and that we stood by and watched with apathy, and in some cases cheered it on. But by then it will be too late. America will be a third world country and the Constitution and Bill of Rights will be nothing more than old paper. Such is the absurdity and peril of neoconservatism.

 

[concealedcarry]

You can simply post a small (but readable sign by your front door) stating Persons who enter this residence are subject to video and audio recording. Anyone entering the building now knows and by entering submits to the recording.

Being in LE for 30 yrs I am not afraid of a civilian carrying a recorder..remember the audio recording cuts both ways and records any correct actions of LE. However it has been my experence that a recorder in a pocket is very hard to hear ( the recorder moving against clothes make a a lot of noise) and only confuses the issue. If your going to have a recorder have a digital recorder of high quality and leave it off your body. If they find the recorder they must have a reason to seize it & they must supply you with a receipt.

 

[kurtmax]

I can't wait for the next decade. Usable wireless broadband will be easy to get, and it'll be possible to rather cheaply have video running on you/your car/wherever that is constantly uploading to the internet (no 'misplacing' the evidence...).

Not to mention that cameras and such will probably be as thin as a sheet of paper and you peel them off like stickers and stick them on some surface

Recorders now are pretty good. The main problem is battery life. If you want to record all day expect to replace batteries each day... ouch. That's pretty much what you'd need to do though. I doubt putting your hands your pockets to turn on a recorder would be a good thing to do if you are being held at gunpoint...

 

[thegriz]

http://www.xonixwatch.com/

Get a Xonix watch. El coppo won't have any idea you're recording him. Mine records up to 10 hours. It recharges overnight and the charge lasts for a few weeks if I don't use it much. With a little practice it's easy to turn on and off. It has come in extremely handy for me a couple times. Recordings don't lie - people do.

 

[quatin]

I posted about monitoring devices several months ago and it was quickly locked.


What I had found out is that in most states, you can record your OWN conversation without telling any third party. If you're talking with the police, that's your own conversation and you don't have to tell them you're doing it. Some states require both parties to be informed.

There are several ways to monitor your day to day life, however most of the concern is while you're in the house or in the car. For a car use a dashcam with audio recording. Some expensive models are very discrete and will blend in to the dashboard. In fact I am drawing up plans to build my own dashcam, since the on market ones that I could find are ridiculously expensive or poorly made.

Secondly, for audio recording, you could simply have a recorder that is constantly on. There should be ones that are sound sensitive and will record only when it detects a conversation near it.

 

[Jeff White]

Watch the state and federal laws about eavesdropping. They differ widely. The second issue you are going to have is chain of custody. Audio and video is so easy to alter these days, unless you can prove that the recording went directly from the incident to someplace like your lawyers safe, you might have trouble getting it admitted into evidence. The police treat video and audio recordings that they intend to use in court just like any other evidence.

Jeff

 

[Sungun09]

First let me say

I have the utmost respect for the average LEO who went into his profession because he or she sincerely believes in the rule of law ... GOD BLESS YOU ALL...
I was recently stopped by a LAKE COUNTY In. LEO who could not have been more polite and professional to me. THAT is law enforcement as its meant to be.

Having said that, all professions are filled with scum.... look at the Chicago PD over the last couple of years for proof. (Not to mention the various lawyers who have represented me..) How about that county in FL a few years ago that practiced confiscation of cash from people during traffic stops under the guise that "it could be drug money" ?

My desire is that RIGHT triumphs and that may mean breaking the law... SO WHAT !.. There are allot of systems you can use to record events, do a Google search. (Goolge stores your searches by IP address for 18 months by the way)

I am more concerned by the LAZY, IGNORANT citizens that don't see they are being boiled like the proverbial frog. All I ask is that a few good men and women JUST SAY NO and mean it. Its our country, what's the problem ???