Dillon 650 or Hornadly Lock-n-load

[chingon]

Hello, I have been lurking, reading threads and would like to get some opinions without causing a brand war. I am considering these two presses and have got some prices worked out.

These are the prices I can get the dillon for, the shipping is actual charge and pretty much like the lock-n-load shipping so I'm leaving the shipping charges out. I can use the same dies on either press so that's not an issue and I will probably only do one size ammo.

Dillon 650---440.95

Hornady----319.99
expander-----9.99
shell plate---27.52

Total-------357.50

So initially the dillon is about 80.00 more. Now if I want to add a case feeder later on the prices are.

Dillon case feeder--175.45


Hornady case feeder-296.55
feeder plate----------25.74

That brings the total with feedes and equip. to.

Dillon-------616.40

Hornady----679.79

So the price is fairly close with the hornady about 63.00 more than the dillon, and they also have the 1000 free bullets. What do you guys think is the best choice?

 

[mc223]

Use the search feature. There are a ton of posts on this very topic.

 

[Idano]

chingon,

IMO it's 6's and i don't think you can go wrong with either press; they are both top shelf. When I bought my Hornady before the free bullet deal I compared the price of the Hornady AP against the XL650 and I only came up with about $140 difference between the two presses setup the same for three calibers so the price wasn't really an issue. I decided on the Hornady only because I could get all the accessories like busings as well as shell and case plates locally. Now if I had the money or if I reloaded more I would buy the Super 1050 because of it's design and the fact that it as a swaging station.

I wouldn't waste anymore time just pick one and go with it and start reloading and have fun.

 

[chingon]

Use the search feature. There are a ton of posts on this very topic.

I did, but I listed prices here so I thought that make make a difference. I have seen people say get the hornady because it's cheaper, but on the prices I have it's not cheaper if you include the case feeder.

I'm also curious about the hornady bushing system. Is that really a benefit? Does anyone really only change one die? I figured you would be changing all of them at once.

I wouldn't waste anymore time just pick one and go with it and start reloading and have fun.

Yes, I tend to research it to death though.

 

[mc223]

OK I give up. I have the Dillon and do not need to change one die at a time. And the price is better. But wait, Some one will tell you the Dillon powder measure is not as good as the other. Yawn.......... Just aint true. Enjoy whichever you choose.

And by the way it is Hornady not Hornadly unless of course the l is silent.

 

[Idano]

.

 

[hornadylnl]

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=513888

Midway has the case feeder for $265 but it is on backorder. You will find that almost everywhere is backordered on Hornady presses and case feeders. I bought my press for $300 and the case feeder for $240 just last November. A $300 case feeder will be the achilles heal for the Hornady if they really want to hurt Dillon's market share. I like my press and have made numerous posts on here about my experiences with it. My fingers hurt too much to retype it all. If I were to do it all over again and knew that I was still going to get 1000 free bullets again, hands down, I'd get the Hornady. NO free bullets, I'd still probably get the Hornady because the more calibers you add, the cheaper the Hornady gets compared to the Dillon. Trust me, you'll want to add more calibers as you go.

I'm already set up for 4, currently have loaded 3 so far and will add another one before too long. I already have all 4 case feeder plates. I ordered them all at once to avoid paying extra shipping in the future and would end up needing them anyway. I imagine before I'm done reloading, I'll have at least 10 different calibers that I will reload on this press.

The 650 costs $70 per conversion and the Hornady is $30 for a shellplate. Many of the shellplates will run many different calibers. If you want to research it, you can find out what parts you need for each conversion and use those parts from conversions you already have if they are the same. That is one of my biggest beefs with Dillon is that they aren't very transparent as to what you need. Without ever even seeing my LNL, I could look in my Midway catalog and know within a few minutes what shellplates I needed by looking in their die section. I didn't have to cross reference charts and spend my time on the phone with Dillon to figure out what parts I needed. They are counting on their customers to shell out $70 for every caliber they load, even though they probably already have every single part that comes in that blue plastic box in the conversions they already have.

 

[chingon]

And by the way it is Hornady not Hornadly unless of course the l is silent.

Thanks professor. If you notice I spelled it right in the other places and I can't go back and edit that mistake. I will try very hard to accheive perfection.

OK, the 300.00 price doesn't do much now. Most places the press is 360.00 or so and the one or two places where it is less has a long wait so the 300.00means nothing.

The bushings to me would be a pain because it's much easier to just change the toolhead, beyond that the price 6 hornady bushings and one 650 toolhead are pretty much the same. I don't see doing more than one caliber anyway, so it's probably moot. I would do 2 calibers at the very most and no rifle calibers whatsoever. You can use whatever dies and powder dispenser you want with either machine so the price of those are moot.

Don't forget the through the powder die case expander added to the shell plate price for each caliber. If not using that then might as well have a 4 station press.

So the price difference in the machines is really not a huge amount.

Now, I still have not made up my mind but I just wanted to set the record straight.

I wish now I had not started this thread. I have gone therough a number of posts and see that the hornady guys seem to be in attack mode over dillons.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Ease up bud, brand loyalty runs deep. Some folks can get a bit snippy. So take snide comments for what they are.

I run the 650, my bro-in-law runs the hornady. Both work well. Neither of us have had problems.

Personally, I do consider the dillon a better product. the only thing I dislike is changing over the primer sizes. I'm seriously considering a second one. Then I'll leave one press set up for both primer sizes.

BTW: Welcome to THR.

 

[chingon]

Thanks Ben, I was at another forum and noticed the same thing happening and in fact a Hornady guy got banned it looks like. It just seems hard to get opinions without on the other brands. I know not everyone does it, but the few sure seem to muddy the waters.

I don't see myself using using anything but large primers, so changing won't be an issue.

I've loaded a few on a Lee Classic Turret and Dillon 550b and while I didn't like the lee (way too much plastic) I like the quality of the Dillon. I have seen a 650 in action but didn't get to do any loading on it myself. I want to get auto indexing though so that's why I have narrowed it down to the 650 and hornady. I sure wish I could try a hornady but nobody around here seems to have one.

 

[hornadylnl]

If you are sure you will never load more than 2 calibers and definitely want a case feeder, Dillon might be the winner. If you have no need for premium pistol bullets and would never spend $180+ a thousand and would rather shoot lead, than the 1000 free bullets wouldn't mean much to you. If you get 1000 free 45 acp 230 gr. xtp/hp's, they have an actual store price of about $180. Forget the retail that Hornady shows. If it weren't for the difference in the case feeder price, I'd say go with Hornady.

 

[hornadylnl]

Ben, if something as minor as changing over primer sizes makes it work spending $400+ than the Dillon primer system must be insanely engineered. My Hornady takes about 5 minutes to change primer sizes. You raise the ram up and use a 1/2"(I believe) wrench and turn out the punch assembly. You unhook the primer slide spring and switch out slides and pull out the primer tube and switch it. I've never seen what is involved in changing primer setups on a 650 so I don't know how it compares.

I would think this would save you much more time for less money.
http://dillonprecision.com/template/p.cfm?maj=3&min=0&dyn=1&
Filling primer tubes is what I hate.

 

[hornadylnl]

Chingon, something I just thought of. I emailed Hornady sometime back and asked if they ever thought about about giving free bullets for buying a case feeder. They said they would consider it for future Get Loaded programs. If the AP at $360 is worth 1000 free bullets and the Classic at $120 is worth 500 free bullets, I'd call them and explain your situation. You are trying to decide between the Dillon 650 and the LNL AP. See if they would be willing to give you 5-700 free bullets for buying a $300 case feeder. That would help offset the price difference of the 650. I've had good customer service with Hornady and the worst they could do is tell you no.

 

[chingon]

I'm still thinking about the lnl pretty strong. I may ask them about the bullets, either way I won't add the bullet feeder for whatever press just yet. It will be a little while, but it WILL be added. I don't need the premium bullets, but I can ebay them.

 

[wally]

I'm a happy new owner of a Dillion XL650 with the casefeeder and a long time user of the Hornady Pro-7 and Projector (the XL650 replaced the retired Pro-7) which are the predecessors of the LNL. Never seen a LNL, but I'd hope they changed the indexing rotation so you can feed bullets in from the left side, or allow switching the handle to left hand pull unless you like reaching thru the press when inserting a bullet as otherwise it could really be a drag when using the casefeeder (which I've also never seen).

The LNL has a different primer system but the old Hornady system was bad enough to change its why I ended up with two presses.

Without the casefeeder IMHO the major difference between the two will be: do you prefer to feed bullets with the right hand and cases with the left or vice-versa? I find feeding bullets into the Dillon with my left hand is faster than feeding bullets with my right hand on the Hornady, despite being right-handed, because the handle when up is sort of in the way just enough to slow things down plus I can be handling the bullet while I pull the handle -- both presses seem to be right arm pulls with no practical way to switch. My old Lee 3-hole auto-indexing turret could easily switch the handle to left-hand pulls but that feature was lost with the 4-hole upgrade, a negative, but the factory crimp die and Lee Safety-Prime system more than made up for it to me.

I use the Dillon for .45ACP, the Projector for 9mm (or very rarely other small primer caliber large runs -- last time I did about a four year supply of .380ACP for my wife) and the Lee Classic 4-hole turret for everything else -- mostly .40S&W, .44MAg and 10mm these days.

--wally.

 

[chingon]

Thanks Wally, something I didn't think about.

 

[hornadylnl]

On the Lnl, the case is inserted on the left rear side of the press and the bullet is inserted on the left center or left front. I seat in station 5 because I don't crimp my ammo. Station 4 is just to the left of the front post of the frame. I think seating in 5 would be a tad handier than in station 4.

 

[wally]

I was seating in station 3, factory crimp die in 4, station 5 empty -- this way I could remove the loaded round as station 4 rotated on the upstroke and have a fresh empty ready to insert while my right hand fed the next bullet.

It pays to spend some time permuting the possibilities and see what works best for you. As I said, mine pre-dated the loaded round ejector so it might have changed my strategy if I had it.

--wally.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Hornadylnl:

I'm spoiled. I have a dedicated tool head for each load I run, powder measure and all. Chganging the primer system is only asbout a 5 minute project. Changing calibers is about a 5 minute project as well. So if I have to change primer sizes also, that doubles the change time to 10 minutes.

Running three jobs makes time very valuable to me, so if I spend 10 minutes changing calibers instead of 5, thats 50 rounds I could have loaded.

Chingon, if you go with the 650, I HIGHLY reccomend the casefeeder. Without it, I think you'll find yourself slowed down quite a bit. With the casefeeder, my right hand never leaves the press handle. Believe it or not, over the course of a couple hours loading time that adds up to A LOT more rounds loaded.

Regardless of which you go with, smmooth, consistant operation is what you're after. Speed is way down the list of priorities.

 

[The Law]

FWIW, I was on the fence going between the Hornady LNL and the Dillon 650. :banghead: I've read all the write ups, reviews, and comparisons. They are both quality products and I don't think you can really go too wrong with either. However, for me, I went with the Dillon 650 (w/ casefeeder and other goodies). The prices weren't too different and the legendary Dillon CS was the clincher. I'm a newbie and didn't want to take any chances, especially with the sizable investment I was making.

I just got the 650 the other day and need to attach it to my bench (hopefully tonight). Again, I maintain that both appear to be quality items that I'm sure will please their respective owner. It's definitely a tough call.

 

[chingon]

Thanks for the info guys.

 

[hornadylnl]

Do you have to tinker with the 650 case feeder very much? That is the biggest cause for any stoppages on my LNL by far. Stoppages due to the press itself are almost non existant. The only time I ever have a problem with my priming system is when I get crud built up in the primer punch assembly, get loose powder or media inbetween the slide and subplate or in the lip of the shellplate. That and the dam**d thing eats through 100 primers in about 5 minutes if it is real hungry.

There is some tweaking invovled with the case feeder though. I still couldn't imagine ever having to reload without it! I put mine on before I ever put the first round through my press.

It would probably be safe to say that if you never had a single problem with the case feeder you could just about double your production of running without a case feeder. I'd say mine is 95-98% so the few stoppages that I have to correct don't put a dent into the time savings that I achieve by having it.

I would like to be able to run about 5000 rounds through a 650 with a case feeder and see how the reliability of the Dillon compares to my Hornady.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Here's a writeup by a guy that owned both the 650 and the LnL at the same time. I think it's a fair assessment of both:

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

Regards,

Dave

 

[Shoney]

I have been passively monitoring this thread, but now am compelled to answer.

chingon: I have the 550 and the LNL, and you are correct that the LNL is head and shoulders beyond the 550. I still maintain the 550, which is dedicated to one die system 38Sp/357M.

A friend has the 650 and we have loaded on each other’s machines, so I am familiar with both operations. Neither have the case feeder and each of us prefer our own machines.

The one factor that has been ignored in comparisons of convenience and price is "the cost of the powder measure" in order to truly make it a quick-change 650 system. Remember the cost of each toolhead with measure is $90 w/o shipping.

If you do not have the additional powder measure on each toolhead, the change over of the powder measure (remove, dump powder, reinstall, adjust, fiddle, measure, final tweak) takes 1/2 to 3/4 hrs on the 550 and I'll bet longer on the 650 because of the self indexing to contend with. (With back of hand to forehead and eye uplifted but closed, "WWooooooooeee, the pain and consternation.)

The old technology slide powder measure of the Dillon is it's weak point. Unlike others, after over 46 years of loading, I have accumulated 3 other powder measures besides the Dillon, on which I base my comments. As time and #'s loaded increased, my 550 slide began to leak some ball powders, and accuracy with some flake powders, even with anti-bridging funnel was never good.

In working up loads using the same dies with different powders in same Dillon measure, it's a pain in the carbarosticus maximus as the whole toolhead or powder measure must be unscrewed to dump the old powder. And to top it off, the ability to repeatably dial in loads is poor, to say the best. And this is in the 550 where it won't index in order to adjust.

The LNL powder measure on the bushing is removed with the flick of the wrist, powder can be dumped and repeatabley accurate load volumes can be dialed in taking less than 15-30 seconds. Since I load for over 15 handguns and 2 semi-auto rifles on my progressives, thi$ i$ a con$idereable $avings in time and money.

Bottom line. If you only have 2-3 weapons to load for and want the case feeder, get the 650 for price alone. If you plan to load convert to several different cartridges, and money is the factor, get the Hornadllllllllllay (can you digest that mc223).

Caveat Emptor! My dear departed grandpa used to liberally translate this phrase as, “Never trust a naked used chariot salesman.”

 

[chingon]

I've read it Dave, good writeup. The same guy also has this video on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHCYnILM6u8

Thanks Shoney, just to play the devils advocate you can use whatever powder measure and dies you want on your extra toolheads. I have also reloaded on a friends 550 and he just takes the powder measure off, dumps the powder into the container and changes the powder bar to a preset one. It takes just a few minutes. That's if changing the powder, if not he uses the microdial, or whatever it's called, to dial in the charge he has written down. I doubt I would be using the same powder for any caliber changes so it would be either extra powder measures or dumping the powder on either press.

Now that being said I know (have been reading a lot) the flaky powders are better on the hornady measure and even if one has the dillon I could see having either a hornady or rcbs powder measure on a toolhead for the dies that use flaky powder. I have been reading up on both presses (I naturally have downloaded and printed out the manuals for both presses) and I like the design of the hornady powder measure. I also plan on adding the casefeeder to whatever I get but will probably be running it without for maybe quite a while so the hornady may have the edge in that aspect.

I called a local guy, the only decent one for reloading stuff locally, and he said he sold one of the hornady's about a month ago and just ordered another that will be here next week. His price is reasonable, 340.+ tax, I think for a small independent place. I know it's not the cheapest but at least he's not trying to gouge like another place that has it for 399. + tax. He's really a decent, fair and honest guy. I don't have a problem supporting someone like that for a few bucks more.