Dillon 650 question

[solman]

I have a Dillon 550 for 30 years and it has served me well. As I am getting older and my right hand has limited thumb motion due to an injury I was thinking of going to a Dillon 650 with the case feeder. I thought to run it for .223 and use my 550 for my pistol calibers that I don't shoot as much. I had a different brand progressive auto index press before my Dillon 550 and it would often mess up usually the primer feed or lack of and then cause a chain reaction of problems due to its progressive function. You would end up with a big mess of powder spilled and lots of frustration to the point that I got rid of it and went to Dillon. As the 550 is not an auto index machine any problem is easy to mitigate by not advancing the shell plate until you clear the cause. I am wondering what is the process with a 650? If you get a crimped primer pocket or other problem in the progressive sequence. Do you end up with a mess of powder on the press? Do you risk a double charge or no charge at all?
Thanks

 

[Nature Boy]

You can stop the sequence to fix an issue without too much fuss. The trick with .223 on the 650 is to pause for a second at the top of the stroke to give the powder time to get through those narrow necks, particularly is using stick powder.

If you don't do that you will have a mess

 

[jak67429]

The 650 powder drop is case activated so it will not drop powder if a case is not present. You can purchase a powder check die to use in station 3 on the 650. It will sound an alarm on double or no powder charge.

 

[ATLDave]

As others have noted, you shouldn't get a powder mess just because you pull a case. You will cycle a primer through the system, but there's an skipped-primer tray on the 650 that will (usually) save it for you. And each of the individual shell plate locations on a 650 can be cleared manually (i.e., you can remove the case).

Coming to a Dillon from an auto-indexing Lee Classic Turret, I had zero interest in any press that was not auto-indexing. I think auto-indexing is a positive influence on safety... I've seen a disproportionate share of squibs and double-charges in other guns coming from folks using non-indexing presses.

 

[solman]

My biggest problem was spilled powder from cases that got by with no primer in them. This made a mess which in turn led to more and bigger problems.

The 650 powder drop is case activated so it will not drop powder if a case is not present. You can purchase a powder check die to use in station 3 on the 650. It will sound an alarm on double or no powder charge.

As others have noted, you shouldn't get a powder mess just because you pull a case. You will cycle a primer through the system, but there's an skipped-primer tray on the 650 that will (usually) save it for you. And each of the individual shell plate locations on a 650 can be cleared manually (i.e., you can remove the case).

 

[ATLDave]

If you don't get a primer in a case and don't notice it, well, sure, you'll get some powder through the flash hole into the press. If you notice it, it's not hard to pull that specific case out. There's not really a good way to see this, though, so it's important to keep the primer feed filled on the 650. That's why they give you the electronic alarm that goes off well before you drop your last primer from the tube into the press's feeding system.

 

[SwaneeSR]

I also have a 550b. I have been contemplating purchasing a XL 650 for some pistol and .223 reloading. I was thinking of loading small primer pistol and .223 on the 650 and leave my 550 setup for large primer pistol. My large rifle hunting rounds I do on a Lee Classic turret and a Rockchucker. Lower volume, high quality hunting rounds.

You have much more experience than me. You will have no trouble handling the XL650. Unlike my MEC9000g shotshell press, you won't get a big mess when things go wrong on the 650.

I only have a few things holding me back from getting a 650.
1 - Headroom above the bench for the case feeder is a little tight
2 - Money
3 - My wife also can see the checking account balance online

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Swanee

 

[CLP]

My biggest problem was spilled powder from cases that got by with no primer in them. This made a mess which in turn led to more and bigger problems.

You'll feel the absence of a primer on a 650. I can't speak to any other progressives. If you happen to have a case which won't take a primer because it still has a crimp, you can gently remove the case, prep it, and reinsert it at the #2 station. If you have the low primer alarm, you should be able to refill the primer tube and never worry about running out.

I do get occasional flakes from two sources on the 650- both and usually be prevented or remedied. Sometimes case lube transfers to the bell mouth on the powder dispenser actuator- if wiped off every so often there's no issue. And if the indexing tension is set too tight the shell plate can sorta "click" into place instead of slide smoothly into place. In that situation the shell plate comes to an abrupt stop which can sling some powder out of a case- esp when it's filled to near the mouth. Easily fixed/prevented by setting the tension properly. In both cases however, the amount of powder than ends up on the press is minimal/insignificant.

I agree that holding the case in the powder dispenser on the downstroke for a couple of seconds helps ensure stick powders completely drop into the case- but currently I run a Quick Measure which is incredibly accurate, precise, doesn't crunch/cut stick powder at all, and doesn't require keeping the case held on the downstroke unnecessarily long (though I use the RCBS Chargemaster Combo to work up a load).

 

[rfwobbly]

Within the last 4 months I made the change from 550B to XL650 and can tell you that the change over was not difficult, but until I was able to learn the exact 650 sequence, it was somewhat frustrating. During that time I wished for my 550 back on more than one occasion, but at this point I'm extremely glad the move was made and couldn't be happier.

► Do not be concerned about the powder measure. Dillon uses the exact same powder measure on the 550 and 650 models.

► Do not be concerned about case retrieval. Dillon uses the exact same brass buttons on the 550 (stations #2-4) and 650 models (stations #3-5) with a very nice spring loaded gate on station #2.

► A major concern is height above the press if you get the case feeder. With the Strong Mount you'll need a minimum of 42-1/2" above the bench, then another 3-1/2" to dismount the case feeder itself. So, at least 46" free and clear.

► The big "gotcha" is that the 550 is so very flexible that a person can get very relaxed about setup sequence, whereas the 650 is a "sequence Nazi" !! A workable sequence is as follows:
1. Pour powder into the hopper and use a spent case (inserted into station #2 and retrieved from station #3) to dial in the powder measure.
2. When the PM is set, then add the primers. Then cycle the primer feed mechanism 6 times.
3. When the primer feed is set, then add brass to the case feeder and turn ON.
4. Start loading.

► All this sequencing is because the shell plate advances a full station every time the ram is lifted more than 2". On a 550 you can raise the ram and then lower if you think of something else. Whereas you are generally fully committed once you raise the 650 ram.

► By far the biggest plus of the 650 is that spent primer de-capping and new primer insertion take place at different stations. This means that the spent primer and all the associated smut can be completely captured IF you fit one of the "spent primer collectors" available from numerous third party vendors. This 100% trash collection means the 650 stays much cleaner and grit-free. ( See: http://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1346-650 )

► Lastly, if you have (say for instance) 380Auto brass sneaking into your 9mm brass, then the case feeder is going to exacerbate this issue. I've been able to cure this by improving my process. I use a 40 cal plastic ammo tray to compare and count all cases before they are dumped into the case feeder hopper. (See )

Hope this helps.

 

[ny32182]

If anything I'd say the chances of a wrong charge are lower with an auto index since it will be a lot harder to run the same case through the powder station twice.

As a guy that has loaded .223 on a 650... if 223 or other rifle is going to be the main goal, I'd spring for the 1050 if at all possible.

You are never really going to get .223 done in a single pass on the 650 like you can on the 1050.

 

[Doublehelix]

The 650 powder drop is case activated so it will not drop powder if a case is not present. You can purchase a powder check die to use in station 3 on the 650. It will sound an alarm on double or no powder charge.

I use the RCBS Lock-Out die in station 3 instead of the alarm type system. With the RCBS Lock-Out die, it physically locks the system up if you have no powder or a double-charge. I love mine, and I have one for each caliber setup on each tool head. I wouldn't feel comfortable loading without one now that I have used one.

 

[jmorris]

If you get a crimped pocket on a 650 it will stop you *or I should say you will feel it and should stop.* You can sort the crimped pockets out, swage them before they go into the collator or keep sized/deprimed cases handy and swap them at station #2 when you don’t feel the primer slide right in.

I really like the 1050 for .223 as the swager as part of the normal operations is seamless.

Edit*

 

[MikeInOr]

I have been using my 650 for 20 years and reload all my rifle calibers in it including .223 (.30 carbine, 6.5x55, .308, .30-06, 8x57). I have never had a problem reloading any of my rifle or handgun calibers. 20 years ago I purchased 5000 once fired lake city .223 cases... cleaned, deprimed and swaged. I am still on that original 5000 cases and get excellent accuracy out of my Rem 700 varmiter. I guess I have never had to deal with once fired swaged pocket military brass so I don't understand the advantage of a 1050 press for .223.

It seems like it took all of about 4 rounds to get the "feel" of the 650... after which it was very obvious if a primer didn't seat properly or if the primer feed is empty. The priming is done at the top of the stroke and is the only operation done at the top of the stroke which makes it very easy to tell if priming is working properly by feel. All the other operations are performed at the bottom of the stroke. If something doesn't feel right at the bottom of the stroke the problem could be one of the many operations. 95% of the few problems I have experienced on my 650 come from a .380 case stuck in a 9mm or 9mm stuck in a .40... etc. For the most part the 650 is pretty trouble free and most issues are quick to diagnose and quick to fix.

 

[SCC]

Rfwobbly's comments about the 650 being a sequence enforcer are spot on, but there are ways around it.

To stop case feeding, bend a short length of copper wire to hook into the hole in the case feed arm (the part moves the case from the tube over so that it can drop) and around the front of the case feed body. Bend a handle into the end of the wire to make this easier. This will keep the case feed arm from returning and picking up the next case during the return stroke.

To prevent the primers from being advanced when the press cycles, remove the primer cam (the black plastic part on the front right side of the press). It's held in with a screw that can be removed and replaced with a stud or threaded rod covered in some vinyl tubing for friction. This will allow you to remove and replace the cam without tools.

So, to start up the press: Raise the press and hook the case feed arm with your copper wire, drop the press and remove the primer cam. Then fill the case feeder or case feed tube with cases, fill the primer tube, and fill the powder hopper. Place a fired case with spent primer intact into station 2 and cycle the press to drop powder. Remove the case at station 3. Do this a few times dumping the powder back in the bottle. Then do it a few times more checking and adjusting the weight (and powder check) as needed. All this time you will have cases and primers ready to go, but not feeding. When satisfied with the powder drop, replace the primer cam. With no cases feeding (because of the wire hook) and the shell plate empty cycle the press 6 times. (You should get 6 clicks from the primer system.) Now remove your copper wire clip from the case feed arm and go to work.

If for any reason you need to stop the primer feed, simply remove the primer cam. Likewise if you wish to stop the case feed, insert the wire clip when the press is at the top of the cycle.

 

[Doublehelix]

To prevent the primers from being advanced when the press cycles, remove the primer cam (the black plastic part on the front right side of the press). It's held in with a screw that can be removed and replaced with a stud or threaded rod covered in some vinyl tubing for friction. This will allow you to remove and replace the cam without tools.

If for any reason you need to stop the primer feed, simply remove the primer cam. Likewise if you wish to stop the case feed, insert the wire clip when the press is at the top of the cycle.

Here is an easier way to stop the primer feeds with a "sliding" primer cam that slides into and out of position in about 2 seconds without having to unscrew anything:

Snowshooze Dillon Primer stop switch for XL 650, SL 900:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dillon-Pri...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


Also, here is an easy way to stop case feeding using an old .38 Special case. The guy is sort of long-winded, so just skip to the details at the end:

Stop XL650 Case feeder trick with .38 Special case: