Dirt Test.....

[Dave McCracken]

Number 6 was pumping hard today. It was sticking at the start of the stroke and not going all the way forward without some muscling.

I wasn't surprised at this.

A little experiment finished up today. Checking my records when I got back home, I found that 6 had more than 1300 rounds through it since I last deep cleaned it.

This was on purpose, not through sloth. I had wondered, after running across a few glitching 870s at the range, just how long one could go without cleaning out the grunge.

Now I know.

So, once home, I broke 6 down and noted the following.

Deep crud inside the receiver.

Buildup on the locking lug.

A ring of crud on the bolt face outside the area where the shell base rests.

And a thinner coat on the trigger group, mag follower,etc.

A fifteen minute session with the proper tools, solvents and lubes made all right again, and the thing shucks like greased lightning.

Comments?....

 

[Fred Fuller]

Well, at least I know for sure there is no residual factory preservative on the innards of any 870 owned by Dave McC. So any functional problems are the result of accumulated fouling from use, not mistreatment or abuse. 1300 rounds is a considerable pile of shotgun shells.

I have seen 870s that appear to have gone decades without cleaning to the point that included fieldstripping. Oh, they had the bores cleaned, and some lube in easily accessible places all right. But I found it a minor miracle that some of them still functioned. Like the inheireted bird hunter's gun that had a literal handful of weed seeds in the receiver from years of being toted through the broomsedge... .

How did the chamber look? Any problems with extraction that could be laid to chamber fouling?

Any favorite cleaning products or techniques you care to repeat here?

lpl/nc

 

[sm]

IMO
It is good to know how many rds it takes a firearm to leave what residue, and where.

In various situations as Dave and others are all to aware of, getting to clean after every shot fired, or even box , is not always afforded.

Once noted the "hows" , "where's" and "why's" of one's shotgun ( any firearm) one knows where to focus if matters are serious and only a short time to fix it.

For instance, I am not concerned with the bore being pristine, I do focus on chambers and if a semi with ports, the ports. I focus on extraction as well.

If caught out, in a serious situation, the abilty already know about one's fiream from observing and knowing how can be very valuable.

Too many times on a range a gun would not feed or extract. Snag chamber brush on a bent rod, twist and turn from bolt back only to remove dry gritty plasitic build up, hit the extraction with a pipe cleaner, ...and this done while 3 other shooters on a squad are shooting skeet...4th person is good to go, does not hold up the squad, and the gun runs.

Other examples from civil unrest, conflicts, hunting...

I have seen guns one could eat off of...chamber was not taken care of and gun would not feed and extract.

 

[nitesite]

There's no telling how many thousands and thousands of guns have been sold quite cheaply because their owners thought there was something mechanically wrong with them.

And there've been thousands of smart buyers who knew that they were simply very dirty and smiled all the way home with their "new" gun.

 

[kngflp]

I have problems with dog hair. One of my 870s is kept between the bed and the wall. I guess alot of dust and hair accumulate here and in my shotgun. I have to take it apart every couple of months and clean it, and it rarely gets shot.

 

[redneck2]

A gunsmith friend of mine says 90-95% of all firearms functioning problems can be solved with Hoppes and a brush

 

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks, folks.....

Lee,the chamber wasn't as bad as the forcing cone. A stroke or two with a chamber brush on a short rod did that job, but the cone needed the cordless drill, dowel and 4/0 steel wool trick. So did the choke tube.

Remington's LC barrels have longer cones than those of yore, but polishing could be better.

Used the gun scrubber from SLIP, a bit of SLIP 2000 in the bore, and Mobil One synthetic oil. Patch material was old T shirt, 100% cotton. All surfaces were inundated with oil then wiped dry. A pipe cleaner with oil did under the rib.

Steve, agreed on chambers. Worst place to have crud, and the most common.

Nitesite, A good smith I know holds that most guns are overoiled and undercleaned where it counts. I tend to agree.

Kngflp, maybe an unzipped case would help.

Red, Amen.

And to all, don't try this at home....

 

[Kingcreek]

Oh great, I've got 1298 thru mine.
Seriously, I never let mine get too cruddy. If I'm feeling lazy it's stock off, hose with WD40 followed by high-pressure air, couple drops of syn oil, and a couple pumps with a cleaning rod.

 

[Hemicuda]

in all seriousness, i am currently in the middle (actually 2/3 of the way through) exactly this test... at about 800 rounds, my Marine Mag 870 is still rolling along just fine...

Leave it to Dave McC to beat me to it...

 

[sm]

Re: Dust and Such.

One hidey hole gun next to one of my desks in a business was a PGO Ithaca 37 Police Riot Gun.

Where "hidden still handy" was one of many air return ducts. We are speaking of a shop type setting, with dust and who knows what else. Air return ducts , just pull any and everything as one can imagine, sometimes I had to change filters twice a month.

Pretty obvious the Auto Parts Store calendar on the wall with clear lift pages up to see what all was under the bikini tops was not doing a very good job of keeping "Ithacus" dust and dirt free. Always knew what day it was, April was Yellow Bikini month...that year.

I could always check previous years to see what Bikini was April , or any month or year going back ...these were "collectable", one does not toss "collectables"...


Needed more lighting, and had had done some remodeling, re-arranging, and the ladies didn't care, still I had hired a couple of young ladies to learn shop stuff.

Flourescent lights, and I added a big mirror that after I finished appeared to be a window with panes. I hung some sheer type curtains and the light reflected off this.

Kinda went with the one way mirror, on the oppsosite side of room, the one with steel plates and such just underneath it to "duck under".

BTW if Mr. "Ithacus" had called and one of were to return his call...trouble was nigh and all folks do as practiced. We had other signals if you will.

Well that curtain pulled back like windows are done (hey I have couth and style) , covering "Ithacus" kept dust and such away. Easy to access, allowed me ( anyone at that spot) to go from handgun, (besides what on each person, that desk might have up to six at any given time, in on around or somewhere...just one my "areas") to PGO, to Full stocked Shotgun to lever action 30-30's if need.

Just take the curtains down when dirty, dusty , put up the spare set, toss dusty and dirty ones in the wash, and rotate.

Being a Southern Gentleman and all, respectful of the ladies learning shop stuff, I got a couple of 1300s in 20ga , did them up a Mirror /Window, they too got a Calender with Guys in Fireman attire, LEO attire, even Swimsuits. That/their curtain kept Miss "Winfred", all dust free.

Later, I learned that wicker baskets were "decorative" and since some had become damged in shipping from a buddy of ours...he was given credit for these. These were of such size and shape...well they really did go with the Mirror-Window-Curtain quite well. I got a fake cacti for mine, ladies got some kind of fake vulgar looking plant...there has got to be a way to a better way to cut wicker...bolt cutters seem to do okay when used like scissors...

Old Man "Smitty" was Model 19. He lived in wooden Cigar Box and spent his days riding the Silent Butler from downstairs to upstairs, silent butler got a lot of use, and that thing was always dusty. "Smitty" was always well groomed, and smelled of cigars.

 

[riverdog]

And there've been thousands of smart buyers who knew that they were simply very dirty and smiled all the way home with their "new" gun.

It's not just shotguns either. I found a Pre-64 Mod 70 Winchester Featherweight (.308 Win) on a rack with other Pre-64 Mod 70's, only it was half the price of the others. The guy behind the counter said I'd need to replace the barrel. I've seen copper fouling before, but never as bad as that barrel. So I pay half the price, take it home and clean it with a good ammonia based solvent (SWEET'S 7.62 bore cleaner) and found a very nice bore underneath all that copper. Shoots good for a featherweight.

 

[HSMITH]

Keep that fouling soft with oil and they will go a LOT longer than 1300 rounds. Spray some of whatever voodoo oil you prefer in the action, enough to wet everything, shuck it a few times, stand up barrel down and let the excess oil drain. Wipe off the outside after a few hours and it is ready to go shooting again. The fouling gets pushed out of where it should not be and into places where it won't hurt anything. Cold weather use will be a problem with a lot of oil in the action, shoot it out with brake cleaner to dry it before you head to the range and re-oil when you get home.

I took my 870 through many many thousands of rounds that way, probably in excess of 10K rounds without actual cleaning, and never had a problem with it. They don't smooth out the way they do when run nearly dry, but they function fine.

Dave, head down to the auto parts store and get a can of chlorinated brake cleaner. It will hose the plastic out of the bore like magic, same for choke tubes. Takes all the work out of cleaning shotgun barrels.

 

[Mannlicher]

I have never left a gun uncleaned after shooting. During the summer of each year, every gun I used to any extent at all the past year, is taken apart, and cleaned throughly. I know I don't have to do this, but I enjoy it, and it can't hurt.

 

[redneck2]

I'm feeling lazy it's stock off, hose with WD40 followed by high-pressure air

I sell industrial lubricants and solvents. I can't get thrilled about WD40. The gunsmith at our shop hates it. He says it tends to build up and collect stuff over time....but hey, if you're happy have at it

Our penetrating oil is along the lines of Kroil. Has a solvent base with moly added. Creeps into tight areas, cleans, and lubricates and actually dissolves rust. I use it on my BP trigger group among other places. Washes out the crud and protects from further rust without collecting dirt. You can also spray it on lightly rusted bluing, rub with a rag, and it will take off the rust without hurting the blue.

 

[sm]

My Preference

Once the gun is cleaned and lubed, fire it.
Cylinder thru a wheel gun - Reload for carry.
Mag on a semi, shoot , leaving one rd in chamber, insert fresh full mag.

Shotguns the same way. Yes some are Cruiser Ready, Some are Snick-n-Shoot.

The one on my person now, I last ran ~ 200+ rds in one session, total rds since last takedown and thorough cleaning ~ 800. Understand, I do inspect and maintain,regulary, about one a week or so- this does not mean mine get totally taken down and such.

Took me about 10 minutes to take down, thoroughly, clean, degrease, remove sand, seeds and then getting shot in the rain. Lubed, shot two mags - leaving that last round in chamber, insert fresh full mag and been on my person in this condition since.

My SX1 I have gone 2K rds without a malf, or cleaning. Not even lubed it, just wipe off and put away.

We have run 870s for a summer / other extended times and who knows how many rds a week, I personally put 800 in a week on that one, I was not the only one shooting it either. WE did as HSMITH posted, or "hit the high spots" , like drop trigger to remove a primer, using up some 'retard loads' a fella had loaded up.

Heck I even shot my O/U a few rds after a good going thru.

I never ever set foot on a field to compete with a gun that had not already been shot.
My shotguns ALWAYS had been fired.

I have seen and heard too many "clicks" instead of a bang on the first and / or second shots in various Shotgun Competitions. They kept fiddlin' with the gun, always cleaning a clean gun, trying new lubes, gizmos and gadgets...

Clay competitions are one thing. A duck blind or deer stand another, Serious situation, that first shotgun shell had better go BANG!

I watched my partner grin, she and I had dirty SX1s from use, mine even had dove field debris. Two shooters ahead of us were anal , about thier guns. They both dropped the first bird, one even dropped the first, second and the double on station 1.

One had forgot to put a "O" ring in an 1100, the other had a Beretta O/U so clean you could eat off it...he thought...got to messing when he should not have , right before a big shoot and improperly gimped the innards. This guy got rattled, his chamber was a plastic gritty mess and would not extract.

There was $1500 in that pot, and they did not get a dime of it.
Had this been a life threatning situation - they would have been dead.

Rule 2 in my book. I NEVER used factory ammo for serious competition . I used MY reloads, or reloads from my trusted partner, or shooting buddies. EXCEPT as mandated, and my first choice was Fiocchi.

Factory rep watched me blow a tourney because a bad lot of his ammo mandated- he felt bad, made matters right best could, but that 99 in .410 cost me a lot!
I had 4 in a row that would not fire. Even changed boxes, still nothing, had to use factory ammo. I proved the Citori was right by firing my reloads, still I lost a bird, knocked me out of the shoot-off. We had 5 straights, I had beaten all 5 before. Not my day.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Not real fond of WD40, but when used in conjunction with elbow grease it seems to work well enough.

H, maybe I should have mentioned the prep work. As usual, I wiped on/wiped off lube, in this case Mobil oil inside, SLIP outside and in bore before starting the test. So, the parts had just enough of a layer to protect them. More oil turns into grunge when powder and wad residue is added.

I have soaked oil into institutional 870s to loosen them up enough to operate without major trauma. For a while there it seemed like they were crudding up faster than I could clean them.

And one drop of oil on each action bar right where they enter the receiver does help the shuck almost all the time.

Hemi, please complete your test and report your findings. Thanks, more data is better input....

Mann, usually mine get a lick and promise every time. All get a yearly deep clean,even if not shot.

 

[TrapperReady]

I used to clean my firearms with regularity and fervor. It was something I learned from my dad and had reinforced in the Army. If a weapon was fired, it was cleaned. No ifs, ands or buts. It was field-stripped and all parts scrubbed until it was clean, clean, clean.

Then I got hooked on shotgunning. First of all, I found myself shooting a lot more. A LOT more. Both in frequency and quantity. Still, I maintained the habits ingrained over many years.

After a while, though, I stopped concerning myself with the bore. I mean, it's not getting fouled with copper and the physics are a lot different that a rifle or pistol. The rest of the gun would still get a wipe-down, and I'd still field-strip it and clean off the bolt, the trigger group, inside the receiver, and the chamber.

You probably see where this is going.

Fast forward to today. Now I go shooting, come home and put the gun(s) directly into the safe. As I type this, I have two garbage bags full of empty hulls from shells I've shot in the past couple months. I haven't cleaned the shotgun that fired them probably since Christmas... and it's totally fine. It's never failed to go "BANG" unless the ammo was at fault, and the shell ejection is fine.

To be fair, the gun is a Browning 425 O/U. Although I've treated autos and pumps with similar "lack of maintenance". With my Beretta 391, I'd often go over 1000 rounds with no problems... although as HSMITH says, I'd "run it wet", keeping the gas piston well lubed with FP-10. When I finally would get around to cleaning it, the amount of junk was amazing, but it always ran flawlessly and smoothly.

Now, if I'm shooting a major tournament, I clean my shotgun the weekend before the comepetition, and then practice with it a couple times before-hand, doing nothing more than wiping it down.

 

[Dave McCracken]

That's one approach, TR. Here in Moist MD I'm loath to skimp on rustproofing. My approach works, there's no corrosion on any firearm here, even those heavily used and handled much by my sweaty paws. My oldest 870 had bluing worn thin over most of the receiver, but is rustless.

If it works for you, fine.

 

[TrapperReady]

Dave - The only rust I've gotten was on an 870 Express I'd used hunting grouse in very heavy, wet snow. Due to a number of circumstances (hunting late, dinner plans with my wife, slow traffic due to the snow, etc...) the gun was tossed, in it's case, into the closet when I got home.

I then promptly forgot about it for a few days, and when I finally got to it, the amount of rust was amazing. I field-stripped it, scrubbed the orange-ish bits with oil-soaked steel wool and all was OK. There are still a couple minor pock marks on the mag tube and one very small one on the receiver, but you've got to be looking very closely to notice.

Any shotgun I have with collector value, or that doesn't get shot routinely will get field-stripped and cleaned when I am done using it. The "clays" guns (namely my 425, my wife's 682, and my 391) usually don't get thoroughly cleaned unless used in rain or snow... or if it just seems that it's been "too long" since I last cleaned them. The more often I shoot, the longer "too long" seems to be.

 

[IDriveB5]

Here in Moist MD I'm loath to skimp on rustproofing. My approach works

dave, can you expand on your approach?


and i must say, i was shocked when i heard you call for your bird and heard no report from your 870. it was almost the type of moment in which you find out that santa clause is actually mommy and daddy.

 

[Dave McCracken]

TR, nothing stays cased here. That makes a big difference, IMO. Due vigilance and attention save a lot of shotguns.

For every shotgun worn out, at least 100 are rendered useless by neglect.

Dan, that FTF was from the lug not seating fully.

As for the method, solvent,lube, TLC. Spray on gunscrubber for the TG.