Disabling Fire

[CGRifleman]

Since this isn't necessarily limited to any specific class of weapon other than long guns, I hope this is the correct forum.
Doing some independent research here... I want to make it clear that this is a personal inquiry and not on behalf of my organization. So here's what I'm looking for:
If you were to have a weapon that were used primarily for disabling the engine on a moving boat, but could still reasonably be used for warning shots or, push comes to shove, antipersonnel use, what would your ideal setup be?
Here's the parameters I'm looking for:
-Reliable (maritime environment=massive salt water exposure)
-Enough stopping power to punch out an engine block while having recoil low enough for fast follow up shots
-Able to be handled safely on a small vessel with 3-4 other people on board (think barrel/stock length)
-Reasonably accurate out to at least 100yds

What would you use and why?
Thank you all for your time.

 

[Tobias1900]

I'm assuming you mean stopping an outboard powered boat.

No gun is going to be very tolerant of salt spray, but the AK-47 is known for functioning under less than ideal conditions.

That said, can I ask what drives this very strange question?

 

[rcmodel]

M1A or AR-10 with AP ammo.

rc

 

[strambo]

My first thought would be a stainless steel pump shotgun with ghost ring sights and Brenneke slugs. Can have whatever other ammo (buck, flares for signalling/warning) on a sidesaddle. Inexpensive, very versatile.

 

[CGRifleman]

That said, can I ask what drives this very strange question?

I won't go into extreme detail but it's for LEO applications and IMHO the setup currently being used for this is usable but not ideal. I just wanted a second opinion.

the AK-47 is known for functioning under less than ideal conditions

Agreed. Unfortunately the AK47 has a less than PC reputation, and regardless of its merits is a no-go for most if not all LE agencies in the US.

AR-10 with AP ammo

+1 on that.

 

[strambo]

AR-10 with AP ammo

Very good choice if cost isn't a huge factor, or M1A scout. An Aimpoint would be a good sight, high FOV and easier to get fast hits from an unstable platform. Should be plenty accurate for 100yds and under on an outboard motor target. A 1-4 variable would probably do well also.

 

[Jim K]

An M1 rifle with AP ammo would be my choice, with the M1A (M14) as a close second. A good hit should stop any small marine engine, outboard or inboard, even if the engine is protected by light armor.

I saw "Captain Phillips" recently and couldn't help but think that one M1 or even a bolt action sporting rifle in .30-'06 would have made things interesting for the pirates as they approached the ship. I am sure that would have been prohibited because our State Department doesn't want to offend the pirates.

Jim

 

[Jim Watson]

There was the .499 Leitner-Wise AR designed for the Coast Guard to knock out boat motors and cause leaks at moderate range. It was a flop but the .458 SOCOM or .50 Beowulf would do the same job.

 

[kitsapshooter]

The coast guard has a protocol for this very event.
It has been featured on a couple of shows.

 

[redbullitt]

45-70 lever in stainless with a nice coating on it? I think the M1a with AP would be my go to for boating and pirates.

 

[critter]

Another vote for an M1 and AP.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

"Enough stopping power to punch out an engine block while having recoil low enough for fast follow up shots"

This is the part that gets me. Seems to me that if you want enough power to reliably punch holes in an engine block on a boat, then low recoil for quick followups are going to be a problem.

First thing that came to my mind was a bolt action 30-06. But that might not be quick enough for you with respect to followup shots. But you can get an M1 Garand that ought to do the trick.

A larger caliber, slower round would work, too. Someone already mentioned the .45-70.

But if you're not talking about extreme ranges, then a 30-30 ought to do the trick.

 

[lemaymiami]

I work out of a small skiff (and some years I'm in it more than out of it...). If you're on the water you'd better be in a big stable craft if you hope to hit much of anything -particularly a motor since you're trying to hit a pretty small target that's probably not stationary. CG Hitron teams, for instance, aren't operating from the water but from the air... (and from the short clip I saw must be very well trained to get the hits they do...).

Weapons with sufficient power to take out an outboard will take out any human you ever encounter (providing you can make the hit in whatever circumstances you find yourself in).

All in all a weapons encounter on the water is something I'd go to great lengths to avoid if at all possible since you have pretty much zero protection if you get any return fire and you're in a boat yourself (unless you can get below the water line - boats, unless specifically armored, don't stop long gun rounds at all....).

My son is in the Guard and I made a point of explaining to him in some detail his best bet for surviving incoming rounds in a small vessel (E & E at high speed - only engage when the odds are in your favor, if at all possible... and using max firepower to suppress incoming stuff if you can't evade).


Put simply you don't want to be in any small craft if rounds are coming your way, period.
As I used to emphasize to the young guys and gals I worked with on the street - John Wayne is dead -and you'll be joining him if you're not immediately behind cover in an armed confrontation... Standing out in the open trading shots (which is pretty much the case if you're in a small craft) isn't the best idea at all....

 

[Kuyong_Chuin]

Since this isn't necessarily limited to any specific class of weapon other than long guns, I hope this is the correct forum.
Doing some independent research here... I want to make it clear that this is a personal inquiry and not on behalf of my organization. So here's what I'm looking for:
If you were to have a weapon that were used primarily for disabling the engine on a moving boat, but could still reasonably be used for warning shots or, push comes to shove, antipersonnel use, what would your ideal setup be?
Here's the parameters I'm looking for:
-Reliable (maritime environment=massive salt water exposure)
-Enough stopping power to punch out an engine block while having recoil low enough for fast follow up shots
-Able to be handled safely on a small vessel with 3-4 other people on board (think barrel/stock length)
-Reasonably accurate out to at least 100yds

What would you use and why?
Thank you all for your time.

An AK was mentioned but would be a PR nightmare, but what about a Ruger mini 30? It fire's the same round as the AK so can be had in an AP round plus other types like tracers. You can get the weapon with a synthetic stock and in stainless steel.

 

[CGRifleman]

There was the .499 Leitner-Wise AR designed for the Coast Guard to knock out boat motors and cause leaks at moderate range. It was a flop but the .458 SOCOM or .50 Beowulf would do the same job.

This would certainly punch out an engine but with the cost and availability of ammo for both those calibers, it's not like we could reasonably sling a volley of them across the vessel's bow for warning shots prior to disabling fire.

what about a Ruger mini 30?

I think that would be an excellent choice if used with AP ammo, but it seems the only AP ammo available in x39 is combloc surplus, and that would be almost as much of a PR nightmare as using the AK47.

 

[Mike1234567]

Don't many boats have cast iron V8 inboard or inboard/outboard engines... especially those large enough to be seaworthy?

 

[stargeezer]

Our M14's did a job on boat motors in the delta. The M16's, when they showed up, not so much.

 

[7.62 Nato]

I agree with rcmodel (would be stupid not to). But I'd also include the FAL.

 

[1911 guy]

I'd vote for something in 7.62X51/.308 Win.

I also know that hitting a moving boat from a moving boat is not something normally done with small arms except at extreme close quarters.

 

[jmr40]

I won't go into extreme detail but it's for LEO applications and IMHO the setup currently being used for this is usable but not ideal. I just wanted a second opinion.

Virtually all LE agencies already use bolt rifles for precision shooting situtions. Most are chambered in 308. If a man knows how to run a bolt rifle "AIMED" repeat shots should be almost as fast as with a semi auto. I'd say most LE agencies already have the perfect rifle for this use. A different load specific to the situation might be needed, AP vs softpoint, etc. Sounds like a training issue.

 

[Art Eatman]

Most folks I've been around on the Gulf Coast who have boat guns use stainless, mostly pump shotgun or Mini-14. Or maybe both.

 

[Gtscotty]

My vote would be for an AR-10 with a nitrocarburized barrel and AP ammo. For punching holes in engine blocks, possibly under some amount of decking, I don't know why you would choose x39 over x51.

 

[itsa pain]

AR 10 to big and expensive for a boat a Mini 30 stainless with steel core will go thru engine easy. A SKS same thing coat the SKS in motor oil for salt spray

 

[bigger hammer]

Any .50 BMG semi-auto. You may need to punch through several layers of fiberglass, aluminum, steel, or a combination of these. The .308 lacks the ability to do this reliably, even with AP ammunition.

 

[eldon519]

SCAR 17 with AP ammo and a 1-6x scope.