Disappointing results

[Hondo 60]

I'm working up several loads for a new-to-me Redhawk 44 mag.

240 gr Hornady XTP-HP or Power Bond 240gr HP

Someone gave me some Hercules 2400 (not sure how old it is)
RP Cases - Rem 2 1/2 Primers
XPs OAL 1.600
Power Bond 1.590
Both have a cannelure & were seated in said cannelure.
Moderate roll crimp

I shot 5 with 19.0 gr of powder
Big extreme spread 966, 972, 1020, 1044, 1086 fps
---------------------------------------
5 had 19.5 gr with XP
5 had 19.5 gr with a Power Bond
1047, 1105, 1010, 1025, 1074 – Hornady XP-HP
1023, 1041, 1048, 1079, 1056 – Power Bond HP

a bit more kick - little bit less spread, but certainly less speed than I expected.
No difference between bullet types.
-------------------------------------------

5 had 20.0 gr with XP
5 had 20.0 gr with a Power Bond
1043, 1115, 1047, 1032, 1056 – Hornady XP-HP
1079, 1072, 1132, 1128, 1086 – Power Bond HP

a more kick & almost exact same speed as 19.5.
No difference between bullet types.
----------------------------------
I'm certainly disappointed in 2400.
Looks like I'm going back to Lil Gun.

Lil Gun gives a bit more "felt recoil" but MUCH more speed.
My trials showed speeds in the 1350+ range with 23.5 gr.
Hodgdon recommends 22.5-24.5 gr Lil Gun.

 

[Fleet]

Years ago, the "standard" load for 2400 w/a 240 gr. bullet was 22 gr.

 

[Mike Kerr]

Jeff,

I have had the best results in terms of velocity and consistency with H110. Fellow reloaders with good reputations for honesty and sanity also report Lil Gun as being doable. Only problem with H110 is not being able to safely and reliably load a reduced charge.

Its been years but I recollect 2400 doing pretty well but I recollect over 20 grains being the charge.

regards,

 

[BADUNAME37]

Personally, I go for tightest groups even if there is a wide extreme spread between shots. In fact, I pretty much ignore Extreme Spread velocities and only use average velocities to know the trajectory and ballistics of the bullet.

You can get too wrapped up in the speeds not being exact and miss an opportunity to load a decent, farely-calm and extremely-accurate load.

I would try another powder, for all you know that powder may be no good that was given to you. You don't know what kinds of conditions that powder was stored in, i.e., in an unheated garage with extreme variations of temperature and humidity.

Also, as for velocity, a well-placed shot to a deer is not going to make a difference if the bullet is going 950 FPS or 1100 FPS. Dead is dead, if the shot is a poor shot, it shouldn't be taken, i.e., a gut shot.

 

[buck460XVR]

I too like H110/W296 under a 240 XTP. IMR4227 works very well also, especially in long pipes and carbines. I quit using Lil' Gun in my revolvers on account of reports of premature forcing cone erosion. It never gave me the accuracy of H110/W296 anyway.

 

[mbopp]

Another vote for W296 / H110 in the 44. Back when I shot IHMSA silhouette it was a very accurate powder.
Elmer Keith was partial to 2400 and plain base cast bullets in the 44.

 

[Blue68f100]

Another vote for WW 296. The powder was developed for Magnum calibers. This powder requires a MAG Primer and a heavy crimp for it to preform.

 

[rg1]

One thing that can cause higher extreme spreads is the powder position in the case at the moment of firing. If powder in one is forward nearest the bullet and the next round it's nearer the primer spreads can vary. Some powders are worse for this effect than others. For best results tip the barrel up slightly after each shot. Another thing I've wondered is if different cylinders makes much difference and if firing all test loads in only the same chamber would make a difference? I like Win 296 for 240 XTP in 44 magnum. I shoot CCI 350 mag primers but RP 2 1/2 should be fine with 2400.

 

[Cop Bob]

With the heavier bullets in 44, H-110 was the go-to powder... 2400 did not give me the accuracy I was looking for either, and the muzzle flash in low light was an issue as well... I have heard many good things about 296, and Lil Gun...

With lighter bullets, (180 gr) 4756 did the trick, superb accuracy, very consistent chronograph readings, however, it maxed out at 16 grains, and you have to watch the pressure curve, cases will fall out at 16 grains with comfortable pressure signs, but at 16.2, primer began to flatten and pierce, cases started sticking... but at 16 grains we were getting 1488 fps.....6" bbls As with any new bullet, powder, component change, consult the books and work up to max.... there are many guns, but only two hands, two eyes, and one you....

 

[Hondo 60]

Another vote for WW 296. The powder was developed for Magnum calibers. This powder requires a MAG Primer and a heavy crimp for it to perform.

Thanks for the heads up on magnum primers.
With all the votes for H110/W296, I think I'll get some on my next trip to the store.

One thing that can cause higher extreme spreads is the powder position in the case at the moment of firing.

2400 pretty much fills the case. So the position "shouldn't" be much of an issue.

 

[Hondo 60]

Years ago, the "standard" load for 2400 w/a 240 gr. bullet was 22 gr.

Alliant shows a max of 21.0gr of 2400 with a Speer GDHP 240 gr bullet.
That's why I chose 19.0, 19.5 & 20.0
I figured I's start low & work up.

 

[W.E.G.]

So you are disappointed with the "extreme spread?"

How much difference does 100 fps make at the distances you normally shoot?

By my calculations, the vertical dispersion caused 100 fps velocity variation is only about an inch at 100 yards if the pistol is zeroed for 50 yards.

We're not fantasizing about a sub-MOA Redhawk I hope.

 

[sugarmaker]

I had tried maybe a dozen powders in the .44 - blue dot, unique, 4227, 296, and I forget how many others (I have something like 25 kinds of powder at last glance...) and got the best ACCURACY results with 2400 (22.5 grs under a sierra 220FPJ). it became my "standard" load - any loaded 44 in the house, that's the load. The keg is perhaps 20 years old.

 

[Hondo 60]

I also have some Lil Gun.
Man that stuff rocks you back.

But I made up 35 rds.
Again with 240 grains bullets
25 - Hornady XTP-HP & 10 Power Bond HP.

Using 23 gr of Lil Gun (22.5-24.5 is Hornady's spread.)

The speed & extreme spread was MUCH better.
The speeds were all in the 1250-1300 fps range.
And accuracy was acceptable (not great).
Which I think is more caused by the shooter, than the recipe or the gun.
I just can't shoot real accurate at 25 yds.

I want to try just a few at 24 grains.
(not looking forward to shooting them.)
But I AM looking forward to the speed.

I think I'm generally gonna stay with Tite Group.
Nowhere near the recoil of the slow powders, good accuracy & speed is in the upper half of the 1100s fps

 

[jcwit]

I also have some Lil Gun.
Man that stuff rocks you back.

Where did you get your loading data for Lil Gun? Its not a recommended powder by the manufacturer.

 

[gamestalker]

Hondo, if your reaching for a more realistic full house load, while also trying to maintain a consistent group, go with H110 or 296. j A word of caution though, don't try reducing the charge to below published data and use a good firm crimp or you'll have bullets jumping out of the case mouths. I pretty much load exclusively with either of those two for all my magnum wheel guns and have been forever (30+ yrs.) and it has never disappointed me.

 

[k4swb]

Getting It Right

If you want consistency, look at your crimps. Each case must be the exact same length for the crimps to be the exact same. Longer cases will get more crimp than shorter ones thus destroying consistency.

I load a lot of W296 and never use magnum primers but I do make sure all the cases loaded with W296 are the same length and crimped the same. Lead rounds get a heavy roll crimp while jacketed loads get a heavy taper crimp.

My testing always showed magnum primers were not only not needed MOST times but almost always were detrimental to consistency.

 

[Steve in PA]

This pic is from a few weeks ago when I had my SRH out. These are two 5-shot groups of 300gr XTPs over 20.0gr of H110 and CCI 350 (large pistol mag) primers fired at 100yds from a rest. I shot a flyer on the first round of each group but the 10-ring is 3" diameter, so still a good grouping with the other four of the group.



Multiple shot stings at 100 yards using 240gr XTPs over 24.0gr of H110. Closed fist sized group. I shoot nothing but H110 and CCI LPM primers. Been doing so for a lot of years. Best powder/primer combo out there for the .44mag (IMHO).

 

[BADUNAME37]

I use magnum primers for 110 and 296 ball powders.
On reason is (hopefully) consistent ignition, the other is that I shoot my 500 Magnum anywhere from 80 degrees outside to 20 degrees below zero outside and all points in-between.

 

[Hondo 60]

Where did you get your loading data for Lil Gun? Its not a recommended powder by the manufacturer.

Hodgdon's data is for a Nos 240 gr JHP.
It has the same profile as a Hornady #: 44200 (240 gr HP)

While it may not be the exact bullet in Hodgdon's data, it's very close.
So I started pretty low at 23 grains.
The data calls for 22.5-24.5

Steve in PA: Nice shootin'!

 

[jcwit]

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

No listing for Lil Gun on their latest info. I see you have to enter the info tho, for some reason can't just c & p the infor for the cartridge.

 

[Hondo 60]

No listing?

I was able to find it.
Not sure what's going wrong, but I copied this just seconds before pasting
Select "Pistol" under Load Type & select "44 Remington Magnum" under *Cartridge


240 GR. NOS JHP Hodgdon Lil'Gun .429" 1.600" 22.5 1465 30,100 CUP 24.5 1582 38,100 CUP

As I posted this morning, the data is for a Nosler JHP, but Hornady's 240 is almost identical.

 

[jcwit]

OK! Finally found it, Sorry.