Discouraged had a squib load today

[brue182]

I have not been reloading very long probably only a year or so and have shot about 500-600 of my reloads without a problem. Today I was out shooting with a friend and I noticed on a shot the gun did not cycle properly. So far I have had no FTE FTF of any kind with my loads. I knew immediately what was the cause and broke the gun down immediately. Sure enough not far down the barrel I see copper looking back at me where there should only be sky.

I think I take a lot of care when reloading and am not sure if it was an uncharged or no charge case.

I toss my reloads into ammo cans and the can I'm using is from my first run after I found a load I liked.

Are squibs sometimes just part of the game and need to be watched out for? Part of me wants to just tear down the ammo I made and reproduce it again.

 

[PO2Hammer]

How about some specifics?
Gun, powder, primer, press, powder measuring method?

 

[brue182]

Loading 9mm 124 RN Xtreme bullets into once fired cases. Winchester SPP 4.6 gr IMR SR 4756 length of the finished round 1.15"

Reloading with a dillon 650xl so powder is automatic. Run a case 6 or 7 times to make sure my charge is correct and will randomly pull one every few hundred rounds and check it again. I also pass every round through a case gauge before it ends up in the shooter pile. Out of 1000 reloads maybe 15-20 won't pass the gauge so I break them down.

 

[918v]

Are squibs sometimes just part of the game and need to be watched out for? Part of me wants to just tear down the ammo I made and reproduce it again.

If you reload the way God intended, there will be no squibs. If you reload on a progressive devil machine, you may suffer squibs, kabooms, various malfunctions, and poor accuracy.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I tend to agree.
Most likely some interruption in the progressive cycle.
I will not seat a bullet without seeing the powder charge.

 

[thump_rrr]

I have been reloading on a progressive for / years now.
I use an RCBS lockout die to prevent squib loads.
Also if I have a stoppage I will clear off the shellplate and start again.
The best advice I can give you is don't reload when you're tired or distracted.

I made a heck of an error last week but I walked away from it unscathed.
I was reloading 200 rounds of .308 for a precision rifle course I took last weekend.
Due to a tight schedule the last 100 rounds were loaded Thursday night around midnight. They were charged with a Chargemaster and the bullets seated on a single stage.
Somehow I had my first ever squib load in a rifle cartridge.
As soon as the rifle went click I knew what occurred and I pulled the bolt out of the rifle to confirm the lack of daylight.
The bullet barely caught the lands and looks just like an unfired bullet once the soot was cleaned off of the base of it.

 

[rcoolbaugh]

I have a led light on my Lee turret press so I can visually check every case prior to placing a bullet on it.

 

[243winxb]

so powder is automatic.

Nope, check each case before seating a bullet.

 

[rfwobbly]

Are squibs sometimes just part of the game and need to be watched out for? Part of me wants to just tear down the ammo I made and reproduce it again.

The best reloaders watch everything ALL the time. You can never rest on your laurels in reloading. You not only need to be watching and measuring, but you need to be constantly improving your process where you can.

The fault most likely stems from stopping the process to weigh the powder. When you do that, you break the rhythm. IMHO, what you took as a safety step in the beginning has now become a hazard.

If you don't trust the Dillon powder measure, then a much better way NOW would be to set it up and then dump 100 "loads" and weigh them all. If you'll record all the dumps in Excel, then you can map how the powder measure performs over time. A high end quality program, like Six Sigma, would only require 30 samples. So hopefully, you'd come away with much more confidence and see that stopping the process to check the powder is now a "bad" thing.

Additionally, contrary to some of the comments above, a high-end progressive press, such as yours, will actually improve your process by removing the most dangerous factor of all... the human element. The less you touch the product during process the better.

Don't get me wrong here. By all means, continue to do your powder adjusting before, and continue to do your cartridge gauging after.

There can also be other external process issues: distractions like kids, "talk radio", TVs, whatever distracts your attention away from constant attention to detail.


Yes, all ammo makers mess up some. I've had factory squibs. But hopefully this will work to improve your quality.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

Use a Lock-Out Die (not a Powder Cop/checker) AND visually inspect each casing before seating a bullet. I made 2-3 rookie mistakes not long ago when I started but since I started doing things this way I have not had a single issue with a squib. I'm just glad none of my 2-3 squibs were in light revolver loads where I may not have noticed the problem. An auto-loader not chambering another round IF you have a squib is a good thing.

 

[Schwing]

When I first started out, I had 2 squibs. One was in a 9mm carbine and the other in a .357 revolver. The first time, it really troubled me but I kind of wrote it off as no big deal. The second time, I changed my process. I now, as others have mentioned, visually inspect every case before I seat a bullet. I have eliminated distractions like TV that take my eyes off of what I am doing. I will still listen to books or music but I try and keep my eyes on the cases. I haven't had a squib since.

 

[Walkalong]

Are squibs sometimes just part of the game

No.

need to be watched out for?

Any thing strange when a round is fired needs to be checked out. You were aware of what was going on and were smart enough to stop and check it out.

so powder is automatic.

Nope, check each case before seating a bullet.

That's about it.

If you reload on a progressive devil machine, you may suffer squibs, kabooms, various malfunctions, and poor accuracy.

That's funny every time.

One of the things I like about the LNL is the seating is going on where I can lean in and see every powder charge I seat a bullet over. The match .308 ammo I load on my LNL shows .00025 to .001 run-out and shoots very well.

 

[BYJO4]

I use the RCBS Lockout die as an added safety precaution. I think it's a good investment to go along with visual inspection.

 

[brue182]

One thing I do not have is the powder sensor that goes in the 3rd station. I think I just became motivated to buy it.

 

[119er]

One thing I do not have is the powder sensor that goes in the 3rd station. I think I just became motivated to buy it.

Do it. RCBS Lock-out die. This die has locked my press twice now I think and every time it was after I had to stop for some malfunction or mistake and the shell plate indexed through the powder station w/o going full stroke to activate the drop.

Good money spent. I also use the powder COP for rifle and it slows me down but that is fine. On rifle I pay more attention to the powder die b/c it won't lock the press like the RCBS will. I have had one low charge with H4895 bridging up some how and the Powder COP showed it.

 

[788Ham]

I don't have, or use a progressive loading machine, a single stage is all I use. I've had this since 1970, yes, it takes a little longer, but before I sit down in front of the press to seat the bullets, the little flashlight I keep on the bench helps me visually inspect each and every brass case sitting in front of me. I've been very lucky in doing it this way, no radios or TV to distract me either, thats just me, your procedure might allow it, mine won't.

 

[cfullgraf]

Reloading with a Dillon 650xl so powder is automatic.

Anytime the reloading process with a progressive is upset for any reason, the risk of a squib load is greatly increased.

It is easy to shuffle cases around and forget the "empty" case.

Anytime I get a problem on my progressive presses, I clear all the cases around the powder drop. Anytime i pull a case to check the powder charge, I clear all the cases around the powder drop.

In the early stages of operating a progressive, this happens frequently but as you get more familiarity with your progressive press, it will happen less frequently.

I do not use an RCBS lock out die but do use a powder cop die. It is just part of my scan to make sure I have powder in my case. I find lack of powder is usually operator error that a powder check die, whether cop or lockout, does not catch during a recovery operation.

Do not get complacent with what ever powder check die you chose to use.

Caution is the word as you are learning to operate a progressive press.

Squibs are not normal or regular and should not be accepted as such. Work on your technique to eliminate them 100 percent.

Hope this helps.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I see you already have been convinced to buy a "powder cop" or a "lockout die" to be sure this doesn't happen again. You made a good choice IMO.

I load all my handgun ammo on a turret press so I have no need for a mechanical method of checking the powder drop. I use my eyes for that each and every time I place the bullet on top of the case. If I were using a progressive press I would not load without a mechanical powder check. (and still look at every case if possible lol)

 

[GW Staar]

One of the things I like about the LNL is the seating is going on where I can lean in and see every powder charge I seat a bullet over.....

That is a good feature on the Hornady.

The Pro 2000 I have is a little harder to see into, so 2 mirrors fix the problem.


I have a lockout die on order, mainly because I'm curious....heard lots of good reports. That's the only way I'd consider not looking inside each and every pistol case. The mirrors, however, work well enough for even small mouthed .223 rifle. The lockout is pistol only. Powder cops for rifle work only if you remember to look at them unless you use the Dillon one that beeps at you. Trouble with that one is you have to drill a hole in your press casting unless you load on a Dillon. Very proprietary of them. Reminds me of Apple Computer Co.

 

[Walkalong]

The Pro 2000 I have is a little harder to see into, so 2 mirrors fix the problem.

Sweet! I like it.

 

[dickttx]

Check your load data.
Set your powder measure.
Set your scale.
Throw several loads and weigh them to make sure your scale balances out.
Set your lock-out die for the load.
Do NOT short stroke.
Look into EVERY case, after it has went through the lock-out die and before you set a bullet.
If something hangs up, clear all the cases and empty the powder.
Not one thing, a LOT of things.

 

[tcj]

I have a Hornady LNL AP and have only been reloading for about 1 1/2 years but have reloaded almost 10,000 rounds between 9mm, 38 spl, 44 mag, 45 acp, 308 & 30-06. When I first started I had 2-3 squibs and since then haven't had one.

In addition to keeping a keen eye out, I slowed down my process so that I check visually that there is powder (LED on press makes this easy) and that the powder cop reads correctly. Also I try to use powder loads that fill over 1/2 of the case. This makes it easier to tell visually that there is powder and will also cause a spill over on a double charge.

Careful practice and attention to detail will reduce the possibilities of a squib dramatically but even with factory loads there is always the chance that one will happen.

 

[Jim Watson]

I must confess I have had two stuck bullets this year, after 32 years of practice.

NEITHER lacked powder.
The first, a .45 ACP, was wet, it was from a batch of Black Hills "remanufactured" salvaged after my house fire. Modern ammunition is not completely waterproof. I was shooting the salvage in slow fire, accepting an occasional misfire. This one truly squibbed and stuck the bullet. I pulled the bullets from the rest of that batch.

The second, a .38 Special, had too much airspace. I loaded some 125 grain bullets with an appropriate powder charge 4.3 gr HP38, but did not change the seating die from the 158 gr setting. This left the OAL about 0.10" longer than spec. Apparently the draw slung the powder forward against the base of the bullet out of reach of the primer flash. Stuck the bullet and scattered unburnt powder. Backed out the primer enough to make opening the cylinder difficult, too.
I deep seated some of the bullets to the right OAL and made up some fresh done right to start with and they shot fine. I pulled most because deep seating scraped off the moly coating and deformed the bullet.

So there are other things to watch out for besides the presence of one and only one powder charge per case
.
Hopefully you will not have to deal with ammo that has been smoked and hosed in a fire.
Revolver OAL is traditionally automatically determined by the location of a crimp groove. But there is a lot of loading going on these days with smooth sided bullets, most plated, some swaged and moly coated, that you have to pay attention to the specifications.

 

[PO2Hammer]

The second, a .38 Special, had too much airspace. I loaded some 125 grain bullets with an appropriate powder charge 4.3 gr HP38, but did not change the seating die from the 158 gr setting. This left the OAL about 0.10" longer than spec. Apparently the draw slung the powder forward against the base of the bullet out of reach of the primer flash. Stuck the bullet and scattered unburnt powder

Wow, I've seen that with slower powders, I never would have thought that would happen with 231/HP38.

 

[Jim Watson]

Me, either. I thought I could slap something mild together in a hurry without changing the die or powder measure settings from 158 gr standard speed. But it did not work.
A squib rod and a backup box of 158s got me through the BUG match.