Do NOT use Black Powder in a Lee Pro Auto-Disk Powder Measure

[ClemBert]

Well, the subject matter is stated in the instructions for the Lee Pro Auto-Disk Measure. Specifically, it says "Do not use for black powder. Black powder is an explosive".

My conclusion is that the instructions say this because they want to avoid a situation where people think that loading any kind of black powder in any kind of cartridge is okay. Clearly, there are many of us who load cartridges with black powder as appropriate. There isn't a logical reason why a Lee Pro Auto-Disk Powder Measure is incapable of metering the correct charge for a BP cartridge.

 

[[email protected]]

I have used this plastic "Lee" powder measure for many a year. It is approved
and legal to use on the National range at Friendship In. Works GREAT!!

 

[BCRider]

I believe that it's got something to do with the idea that all that plastic could lead to static charge buildup and a spark. Seems to me I've seen "proper" black powder measures of the same sort that have all metal construction for this reason.

 

[RedwolfConchoman]

The man I learned about BP from

was a stickler about NOT putting BP in PLASTIC. He had been "around"
& learned from experiences.

 

[[email protected]]

Wonder why it is sold in "Plastic" cans, and they make plastic spouts???

 

[BCRider]

To be fair I'm pretty sure that the current black plastic jugs used for both smokeless and black powder is made from the conductive anti static plastic. It looks the same as the static safe plastic containers used in the electronics industry for shipping CMOS integrated circuits.

If I'm right there's not a snowflake's chance in hell of getting a static charge from those bottles. Which seems to be the case since the smokelss powders I've poured from the black bottles fell from the sides cleanly.

Meanwhile when I bought a lb of bulk powder from one of the local reloading guys he gave it to me in a liter pop bottle. The powder stuck to the sides of that plastic like glue due to the static.

 

[junkman_01]

I guess this needs to be posted again for those who don't know, or forgot...:banghead:

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

 

[ClemBert]

The Lee Pro Auto-Disk Measure warning has nothing to do with STATIC ELECTRICITY. One reason why Graphite, the "G" in FFFg, is added is to give static electricity a path to follow. Graphite is an electrical conductor. BP with the "G" designation is coated with graphite.

I think the Lee warning probably has to do with the company not wanting to be involved with promoting the use of BP in cartridges since stupid people do stupid things like load up 7.62x39 AK ammo with BP and expect a good result. :banghead: The lowest common denominator dumbs us all down.

 

[junkman_01]

If you Google it, you will find that the 'G' in BP designations stands for granulation not graphite....

1825, Europe
DEVELOPMENT OF GRANULATIONS FOR SPECIFIC PURPOSES​

"With more accurate testing methods, it was discovered that different granulations of corned powder were appropriate to different applications. This ultimated in today's grading system using the letters "F" and "g". The little "g" stands for Granulation, while the F stands for the size of screen mesh the granule will pass through."
http://footguards.tripod.com/06ARTICLES/ART28_blackpowder.htm

 

[BCRider]

Junkman, I've seen that page before too. And while I recognize that it's apparently not as big a deal as we've allways been lead to believe old habits die hard. I'd be willing to bet that the note about not using it is still based on the idea that powders and plastic are good for static and sparks.

I'd also suggest that if a spark occured in the fine dust of some airborne BP fines that ignition may just be a lot more possible.

 

[ClemBert]

If you Google it, you will find that the 'G' in BP designations stands for granulation not graphite....

Well, ya learn somethin' new everyday.

It's not common but you can purchase FFF (no g) that does NOT have graphite in the mix. Some folks just don't like graphite....

 

[scrat]

IM SO CONFUSED> ok. Take a look and read all of this. then you think. Well if this is true which i do believe the author to a point. as you can see the pictures and you see the pictures where they grounded down the black powder to almost dust. this would pretty much remove the graphite belief. Then the question i have is how does the CVA electronic ignition rifle work. your thoughts read the pic and links though
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/cliffhanger/wardlaw/staticelectricity.htm

 

[junkman_01]

I posted the same experiment in post #7.

The CVA electronic ignition delivers more amperage and creates enough HEAT to cook off the powder, that's how.

 

[scrat]

mmmm just saw good info

 

[Skinny 1950]

I didn't see the warning about not using the Lee Auto Disk powder measure and have loaded hundreds of rounds of .45 Colt with Goex FFFG, I had to get a disk doubler kit to dispense 35 grains of powder for a full case.
The only issue that I see is that when seating the primer the powder dispenser is right above the shell casing and if the primer were to go off it could set off the powder in the hopper above.

 

[Pulp]

The label on hand antiseptics says "Kills 99.9% of all germs" Do you know why? That's so if you use the product and still get a staph infection you can't blame them. They never claimed it would kill all the germs and totally protect you.

The chance of a static buildup igniting BP in a reloader is probably extremely small. But apparently (and I'm just guessing here) it has happened at least once somewhere. Hence the warning.

Kinda like pointed bullets in a '94 Winchester. Someone, somewhere blew up a '94 while using pointed bullets, or maybe it just looks like it could happen. So all tubular magazine rifles have a warning not to use pointed bullets.

So it all boils down to personal choice. Do I ignore the warning and buy a measure designated for BP, or do I take a chance with a plastic hopper?

Me, I'll admit I've done it in the past, but the last few times I've reloaded BP, I've used a dipper to pour powder through the Lee expander die.

A person could probably rub the inside of a plastic hopper with a Snuggle dryer sheet and eliminate any static. Or do like Lee says with their dippers, wet it with a dishsoap/water solution and let it airdry to eliminate static.

 

[ClemBert]

I didn't see the warning about not using the Lee Auto Disk powder measure and have loaded hundreds of rounds of .45 Colt with Goex FFFG, I had to get a disk doubler kit to dispense 35 grains of powder for a full case.
The only issue that I see is that when seating the primer the powder dispenser is right above the shell casing and if the primer were to go off it could set off the powder in the hopper above.

I'm not sure why so many folks just say that static electricity will set off BP when its never been shown experimentally. It takes heat not voltage to set off BP. The kind of static we would encounter would not generate the kind of heat needed to set off BP. That comment not directed at you Skinny.

It would seem that even if a primer went off with the Lee Pro Auto-Disk Powder Measure it wouldn't set off the powder reservoir. I don't think I want to try it out but without a cartridge actuating the powder disk the BP is unaccessable. It would seem that smokeless powder has the same disadvantage as BP when it comes to the Auto-Disk.

 

[Sam Cade]

I think the Lee warning probably has to do with the company not wanting to be involved with promoting the use of BP in cartridges since stupid people do stupid things like load up 7.62x39 AK ammo with BP and expect a good result.

Actually, 7.62x39 is a viable black powder cartridge. You can't possibly cram enough powder into one to break anything.

 

[ClemBert]

Actually, 7.62x39 is a viable black powder cartridge. You can't possibly cram enough powder into one to break anything.

So, you don't think the gas system would clog up with soot? You'd never catch me shooting BP though a firearm with a gas feedback system. Cleaning up my BP revolvers is enough fun already.

 

[Sam Cade]

So, you don't think the gas system would clog up with soot? You'd never catch me shooting BP though a firearm with a gas feedback system.

I've ran a magazine through an AK, worked just fine though it was fantastically dirty. The gas port is a mighty big hole. Clean up is just like shooting corrosive ammo.

I'd wager it would keep chugging along for several hundred rounds.


Remember, the first belt fed machine guns were black powder, though recoil operated.

 

[kBob]

Actually Browning's model 1895 as first tested by the US Navy used BP.45-70 ammo. It was gas operated...though I would think the swinging link system that gave the gun its "Potato Digger" monicker would be the best possible gas system for BP.

-kBob

 

[kBob]

I was just thinking about something else when I recalled someone at some point in the mists of time suggesting to me that the deal with sliding bar type powder measures was the sheering effect it may have on the powder. Especially if the powder in question is pressure/impact sensitive like say BP.

Somehow the curved surfaces of something like the Lyman Powder system of the drum type was supposed to be less prone to crushing individual grains, thus the old brass drummed ones for BP.

Not saying this IS the case just recalling what someone once said to me.

Nothing like muddying the waters a bit.

-kBob

 

[junkman_01]

I was just thinking about something else when I recalled someone at some point in the mists of time suggesting to me that the deal with sliding bar type powder measures was the sheering effect it may have on the powder. Especially if the powder in question is pressure/impact sensitive like say BP.

Somehow the curved surfaces of something like the Lyman Powder system of the drum type was supposed to be less prone to crushing individual grains, thus the old brass drummed ones for BP.

Not saying this IS the case just recalling what someone once said to me.

Nothing like muddying the waters a bit.

-kBob

I do not know why some people just repeat these inaccuracies, without trying it for themselves. Black powder is NOT impact or pressure sensitive. I just went out on my driveway and put about 3 grains of 2fg BP on the concrete and repeatedly smashed it to fine dust with a steel hammer. No ignition. I then lit it off with a propane touch. If you do not know, do not further the inaccuracies! Try it yourself.

 

[Foto Joe]

ClemBert I think you're right, it's a liability issue more than anything else.

Personally I use a Lee Perfect Powder Measure for all my Black Powder cartridge loading even though I use a Lee turret press with an auto-disk on it. The auto-disk is used for that new smokeless powder in modern guns like a 1911.

I'm not in that big of a hurry in the first place, if I was I'd be burning up ammo with a Gatling Gun instead of a SAA.

 

[Sam Cade]

Black powder is NOT impact or pressure sensitive.

The MSDS sheet for black powder says:

Instability:Keep away from heat, sparks, and open flame. Avoid impact, friction, and static electricity

http://web.mit.edu/rocketteam/www/documents/MSDS/Black Powder.pdf


All BP isn't equal of course, the finer it is the more likely it is to be touched off by static or friction.