Finally, actual examples! Good job.
Yes.
One extremely tragic fatality example, and three what appear to be minor injuries over the course of the past 2+ years. Extraordinarily rare.
Do you believe you are more safe (in public) when others are carrying?
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Finally, actual examples! Good job.
Yes.
One extremely tragic fatality example, and three what appear to be minor injuries over the course of the past 2+ years. Extraordinarily rare.
silicosys4
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I would be hesitant to suggest that was the entirety of the incidents that happened in the last 2+ years. That's just the first four links of recorded incidents I found in a quick google search.
I wouldn't suggest that was the entirety either.
I also wouldn't suggest that I could list the entirety of the defensive gun uses (even limiting to when said use could have reasonably benefit a 'bystander') in a single post either.
we are not amused
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fastbolt
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The other day I was browsing and compiling several examples of folks who had experienced mishaps while lawfully carrying guns in public (leaving out LE & range instances, but including those in restaurants, public restrooms, gun stores, front yards & porches, etc), but it became more than a little dismaying so I decided to get up and out to go do something relaxing. (One of the many searches that turned up a lot of firearm accidents in public included just googling "man shoots self with holstered gun", even though it didn't locate a couple recent instances I remember seeing in the news.)
Then, of course, one of the first things I see linked this morning from another forum was this: http://www.azfamily.com/news/Man-accidentally-shoots-self-in-leg-at-Phoenix-Wal-Mart-259661791.html
At least this one wasn't life threatening.
People are people. Doesn't matter whether it's while using motor vehicles, shopping carts, chainsaws, table saws, bicycles, kitchen knives or pogo sticks. The human factor is eventually going to assert itself, for good or ill, while using any types of equipment, tools or devices. The more people involved in any particular activity, the greater the potential for such acts (mishaps) to occur.
Bear in mind that this is NOT a diatribe against lawful gun ownership and use. Far from it. It's just a minor point to illustrate why I don't necessarily believe I'm particularly safer when on the roads, around people using power tools, throwing horseshoes or in the midst of a lot of strangers carrying guns. It's not the tools or implements, but how people can become distracted, hurried, startled or otherwise experience mistakes of judgment thinking they're doing something correctly or sensible.
Then, of course, one of the first things I see linked this morning from another forum was this: http://www.azfamily.com/news/Man-accidentally-shoots-self-in-leg-at-Phoenix-Wal-Mart-259661791.html
At least this one wasn't life threatening.
People are people. Doesn't matter whether it's while using motor vehicles, shopping carts, chainsaws, table saws, bicycles, kitchen knives or pogo sticks. The human factor is eventually going to assert itself, for good or ill, while using any types of equipment, tools or devices. The more people involved in any particular activity, the greater the potential for such acts (mishaps) to occur.
Bear in mind that this is NOT a diatribe against lawful gun ownership and use. Far from it. It's just a minor point to illustrate why I don't necessarily believe I'm particularly safer when on the roads, around people using power tools, throwing horseshoes or in the midst of a lot of strangers carrying guns. It's not the tools or implements, but how people can become distracted, hurried, startled or otherwise experience mistakes of judgment thinking they're doing something correctly or sensible.
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Pete D.
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+1.....I dont think that the average street thug is that smart.
As far as being made to feel safe.....one of those people carrying is the thug.
Yeah, those people who were killed in the movie theater should have read the reviews longer. And those kids at the school in Connecticut....they should have......what? What should they have done?
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Joe Demko
Member
I went back and re-read the entire thread. Posts like the one one quoted above are puzzling. How is it, exactly, that I am supposed to judge the "factual reality" of ccw's effect on my level of safety?
An accumulation of knowledge regarding the actions and reactions of lawful carriers across the country over a long period of time, and the results thereof. Or something like that. I'm sure somebody else could articulate that more clearly than I just did.
If you haven't yet found any kind of pattern or consistency to the results of lawful carriers being present then you may not be in a position to have a solid response/vote.
Joe Demko
Member
"Or something like that?"
If you want meaningful answers, you should be much less vague about the parameters of your questions. You, apparently, want us to conclude we are genuinely safer based on a combination of vaguely remembered news stories and psychic impressions of the crowds around us.
Not real impressed by your poll, or any conclusions that you might draw from it.
If you want meaningful answers, you should be much less vague about the parameters of your questions. You, apparently, want us to conclude we are genuinely safer based on a combination of vaguely remembered news stories and psychic impressions of the crowds around us.
Not real impressed by your poll, or any conclusions that you might draw from it.
Then don't vote and move along to a thread you find more useful.
krupparms
Member
As we have little to NO protection from the Police or local authoritys, we citizens are for the most part on our own! Even though its leagle to O.C. here. Most C.C. because of police harrassment! Terry stops, threats ect.! In this area there are a lot of poor of people C.C. without a permit! Some can't afford them others don't want the police to know they own guns, not because they are criminals but because they are afraid of getting put on a 'LIST'. Which will happen! Crime has skyrocketed! ( Most who see me O.C., thank me! ) .The police will tell you, IT'S NOT THEIR JOB TO PROTECT US! JUST TO INVEIGATE AFTER THE CRIME HAS OCCURRED! THAT'S WITH A 1 HOUR +RESPONSE TIME ! LIFE IN THE REAL WORLD!
Where has crime sky rocketed?
krupparms
Member
Here in S.W. Oregon! That's where I live! In most of the countys around here, law enforcement has no money or support! The police keep asking for more money. The citizens have turned them down each time! No one won'ts to give them money that is used for the wrong things. Stabbings up! Shootings up! Arson up! Arson is a big one around here! Just the facts!
fastbolt
Member
Has the reduction of citizen support and resulting lack of funding adversely affected police investigations, and therefore reduced their ability to apprehend and arrest the criminals? If you suspect that may be the case, then maybe some 'tax support' by the citizenry might not be unreasonable.
krupparms
Member
As a former P.O. & citizen I would have to say yes to the part that it has had an effectiveness on the situation here! But as a former P.O.& citizen I must add that there are very good reasons that they will never get a safety levy past the voters here! That includes several countys! 1st. Missuse of police funds. 2nd.Missuse of police powers .3rd Corruption within the police departments! 4th. Corruption within the county government! This is what the citizens are saying! Not just my feelings. There have been some very questionable shootings by the police & they have immunity from criminal acts they commit. That pretty well sums it up! NO ONE WANTS CORRUPT POLICE! The citizens would rather see the system collapse than continue to put up with the political corruption. I don't agree with how things are being handled,but I am just one voice & I just voted! Even though I believe that it is a dog & pony show. If your don't like it, I am sure you to could throw some money at the problem! But it would just disappear down the rabbit hole like the rest! There's no accounting to We The people. Not here! Sure wish it was!
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