Do you carry into places where they post signs telling you not to?

[Shootcraps]

Sign??? What sign?

 

[El Rojo]

Kindly quote where I said I would lie. If I recall correctly, I said that if I were accused of "trespassing" by the store owner, because I was carrying a gun (legally, per my CCL), I would leave in a contemptuous manner and never do business there again.

Not a problem. Here is exactly what you said.

By the same token, what if when the officer arrives, I claim that, "Hey, I asked this proprietor if it was okay to carry in his store despite his posted sign, and he said okay!" Now it's he said/he said. How can my claim be disproved?

It seems you didn't leave in a contemptuous manner, you stuck around and gave a false account of what happened. Your words not mine.

If you admit that you go armed into a no-guns store sometimes, you are the one losing credibility. I admit that I do, but I am not the one championing the bozo's "right" to make such a pointless, asinine, dangerous rule! YOU are! You are on the one hand defending his right to make the rule and on the other hand admitting that the rule IS stupid. Make a damned choice already.

I made my choice, you just don't like it and don't want to acknowledge it. The property owner has complete control over their property. You obviously are not a strong defender of private property rights and that is fine. According to your text, you seem to think that your rights trumpet everyone else's rights. I do not agree with you. I am not being hypocritical in saying that I knowingly am wrong when I carry onto private property that the owner has posted a sign on. I accept the responsibility if I get caught and I know that it is their property and I have no right to be there. I would be hypocritical if I said you shouldn't do it and then I do it. Note I have never said don't do it. I just said it is wrong to violate their rights. However, if I must, I will do it for my own safety. If I can avoid their place of business, I will as I don't agree with their policies and I don't want to support their business or attitudes.

I think that is where our opinions differ. You seem to think you have a right to go to every store and that they must cater to your every need. I disagree. Would a smart business make their environment friendly towards you and make you as comfortable as possible? Yes they would. However, people don't have to be smart. People don't have to allow you to do whatever you want. They can make bad decisions and they can ask you not to enter. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." The consequence is they will go out of business and that is fine. They have a right to fail too.

When the state has recognized that I may carry a weapon, that recognition should trump any objection by anyone anywhere I might go that is accessible to the public, and yes, that includes "private" stores. Not clubs, mind you, which are not open to the public, but by invitation or membership.

I don't understand why a club would be any different than a private store. If you can dictate your will upon a private store, why not a private club? Why should business owners or private individuals have any rights other than what is for the "public good" or even for the class of CCW holders? You see, the main objection I have here is you are willing to destroy the choice and rights of private property owners all in order to have your rights imposed upon them. The key here that I think you miss is that you do not have to go to their store. If we were arguing about public parks or roadways, I would be with you 100 percent. However, we are talking about someone else's property. They shouldn't have to do anything they don't want to do on that property. If they want to limit red heads from eating at their store, they should be able to. Women over 25? Yeah keep them out too. They should be able to serve and cater to whoever they want. If they have a bunch of liberals who frequent their store and they want to provide them with a "gun free zone" and their patrons enjoy that, they should have every right to do that. Should we ever shop there? Of course not! You can't force your will upon others Jeffrey, so stop trying. They have a right to be "idiots" and to ruin their business if they choose.