Do you know of any GUN OWNERS who are AHSA members?

[No Fear]

I don't think AHSA has more than a dozen members who are actually gun owners so I'm curious if you ANYBODY who is an AHSA member, gun owner or not. If you know someone who is an AHSA member AND a gun owner then tell us about this person. I just don't think that animal even exists. I think effectively all of AHSA's members (do they publish member data?) are just bored environmentalists.

 

[RPCVYemen]

You know at least one - or have read his posts (or are reading his post as we speak).

Mike

 

[No Fear]

You know at least one - or have read his posts (or are reading his post as we speak).

Mike

You know they support gun control on our .50 caliber rifles don't you?

You know AHSA is merely a front for several gun banners don't you?

The anti-gun credentials of AHSA’s leadership is well documented. For instance, AHSA president Ray Schoenke has a long history of giving political donations to some of the most anti-gun politicians, including Al Gore, John Kerry, Barbara Boxer, Bill Clinton, Dianne Feinstein and Ted Kennedy. In 2000, Schoenke donated $5,000 to Handgun Control, Inc. (now the Brady Campaign) and the Ray and Holly Schoenke Foundation also made donations to the Brady Campaign. AHSA Board member John Rosenthal remains the leader of Stop Handgun Violence, the Massachusetts anti-gun group. And one of the leading organizers of AHSA is Bob Ricker, who has been a paid expert witness against gun manufacturers in a number of reckless lawsuits.

Since you are a member, maybe you can shed some light on how many members AHSA has.

If you would be so kind, I would love to hear how AHSA is supposedly a good organization for gun owners.

 

[TexasRifleman]

You know at least one - or have read his posts (or are reading his post as we speak)

Wow, I'm surprised someone would admit that in public, especially on a pro gun forum.

May I ask why in the world you would join a group like that?

Did you happen to know that:

Robert Ricker, executive director (AHSA) and Joe Vince, board member (AHSA), have been paid witnesses against the
firearms industry in municipal suits in California, Washington, D.C. and New York City (including the “City of New York v.
Beretta U.S.A. Corp. et al” case which is still pending).

And a little more on their board:

Founders / Executives
While AHSA purports to be a pro-hunting, pro-conservation and pro-gun organization, its leadership and board would qualify
as a blue ribbon committee of activists who are anything but friends to the hunting, shooting sports and firearms community.
Let’s take a look at who runs this “hunters and shooters” organization:

Robert Ricker (Executive Director, AHSA)
• Paid witness against the firearms industry for cases where plaintiffs attempted to hold gun manufacturers liable for
the criminal misuse of their products by third parties.
• Monthly salary of $3000; AHSA claims no more than 150 members who pay $25 dues. The rest of the money
comes from “individual contributions” with the largest contributors on the AHSA board of directors.iv
• Paid an hourly fee of $225 to $250 dollars for testimony, depositions, and meetings with the Brady Campaign.v
• Consults for the Educational Fund to End Handgun Violence (the “educational” arm of the Coalition to Stop Gun
Violence).vi (http://www.csgv.org/)
• Consults with Virginians for Public Safety (http://www.vapublicsafety.com/) (lobbying for additional restrictions on
law abiding gun owners).vii

Ray Schoenke (President, AHSA)
• Mr. Schoenke, his wife, his daughter and son have been generous donors of anti-gun candidates including: Al Gore,
Barbara Boxer, Bill Clinton, Dianne Feinstein, Ted Kennedy, Carolyn McCarthy and John Kerry.viii
• Mr. Schoenke and his wife donated $10,000 to Handgun Control, Inc. (HCI) in 2000.ix
• Mr. Schoenke’s daughter and son each contributed $5000 to HCI in 2000.x

John Rosenthal (President, AHSA Foundation)
• Rosenthal is the leader of Stop Handgun Violence, the principal anti-gun group in the state of Massachusetts
(credited with being the “political force behind the strict gun control laws of Massachusetts”xi)
• Rosenthal is a former member of the HCI board of directors, now known as the Brady Campaign.
• Rosenthal has most recently focused his energy on voicing opposition to firearms’ advertisements during sporting
events < http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=154057 >

Jody Powell (Co-Chairman, AHSA Advisory Board)
• Press Secretary for one of the most anti-gun U.S. administrations, President Jimmy Carter.

Joe Vince (Board Member, AHSA)
• Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) architect of the Clinton-Gore regulatory assault on the
Second Amendment.
• His company Crime Gun Solutions (CGS) employs a number of other ex-ATF officials including Gerard Nunziato,
who told the Houston Chronicle that “If it wasn’t for criminals, there wouldn’t be a gun industry in this country.”
• Crime Gun Solutions provides consulting services for the lawyers at the Brady Campaign, frequently appearing as
paid expert witnesses in lawsuits against the firearms industry.

National Shooting Sports Foundation has a PDF document detailing this anti gun operation here:

http://www.nssf.org/share/pdf/AHSA_Fact_Sheet.pdf

 

[Justin]

AHSA is demonstrably a false-flag operation dedicated to dictating which firearms in what calibers I can own, and under what circumstances I should be allowed to use them in.

They absolutely do not represent me as a shooter, gun-owner, or liberty-minded person. The fact that they endorsed Obama doesn't mean they have his ear, nor does it mean they actually represent the interests of even the average gun owner.

 

[No Fear]

The fact that they endorsed Obama doesn't mean they have his ear, nor does it mean they actually represent the interests of even the average gun owner.

I wonder (I hope) if we can use that endorsement to make it harder for Obama to ban anything. I'm sure that AHSA quietly supports the Clinton gun ban, but are they open about it? If the AW ban gets revived in congress, watching AHSA's actions will get VERY interesting.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

I think they are of the belief that guns cause crime. As far as I know, they want a renewal of the '94 ban, and probably would support a handgun ban too.(Apparently they don't care about handgun hunters)

 

[RPCVYemen]

You know they support gun control on our .50 caliber rifles don't you?

Yes, and I think that's silly.

I maintain my membership in NRA - I am not happy with everything AHSA says. But I am concerned that the NRA is so tightly tied to the Republican party that it may have peaked.

Maybe it's because I am from North Carolina, and the shift was truly seismic here. The Obama win combined with the total shellacking of Elizabeth Dole. I think that the Dems may have figured out how to break the Republican stranglehold on the South.

Every success in American politics seeds its own failure.

When I was growing up, the NRA was not a fund raising arm of the Republican party. The Democratic president whom my parents heroized - JFK - was a member of the NRA (a life member I think, but I am not sure).

In the following decades, the NRA became more and more tightly tied to the Republican party. That gave them a lot of influence, and may have helped us win Heller.

But that also meant that when the Republicans fall out of power, they take the NRA with them. I think that the Reagan revolution is fundamentally over, and I expect that it will take them some time to recover.

The NRA bet on the wrong horse in this election, and doubled up their bet with a vitriolic campaign - implying that Obama was insincere, or a liar.

The AHSA bet on the right horse, and I expect them to have more influence on the administration (and maybe Congress) than the NRA until the Republicans are again ascendant. Which they will - everything comes in cycles in American politics.

I want to be a member of a gun org that has some influence in the next administration (and I suspect for the next decade or two). My $25 bet is that organization will be the AHSA, not the NRA.

Mike

 

[TexasRifleman]

I want to be a member of a gun org that has some influence in the next administration

LOL well I'll say you sure picked the right one. You should probably send some cash to HCI while you are at it, they will likely have a good relationship with this administration.

I mean, the board of directors of AHSA send HCI money, you should too.

 

[No Fear]

But that also meant that when the Republicans fall out of power, they take the NRA with them.

+1 That is 100% dead smack ON.

RPCVYemen I applaud your openness and honesty. I think your entire comment was correct.

The NRA bet on the wrong horse in this election

Yes and nra could have seen it coming MONTHS in advance. Their support for McCain, especially when it was obvious he was going to lose, REALLY did gun owners a disservice. Do you think NRA will detach from the republican party a little bit now?

I think that the Reagan revolution is fundamentally over, and I expect that it will take them some time to recover.

That is the saddest part and it is 80% Bush's fault and 20% the fault of the rest of the republican "leadership" (and I use that term veeeery loosely).

 

[hags]

But that also meant that when the Republicans fall out of power, they take the NRA with them. I think that the Reagan revolution is fundamentally over, and I expect that it will take them some time to recover.

The NRA bet on the wrong horse in this election, and doubled up their bet with a vitriolic campaign - implying that Obama was insincere, or a liar.

That is not dead smack on. The NRA has massive influence in the courts via lawsuits, attroneys, etc..as well as Republicans still in office.

Obama was/is a liar!!! He's as phony as a $3 bill.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

I want to be a member of a gun org that has some influence in the next administration (and I suspect for the next decade or two). My $25 bet is that organization will be the AHSA, not the NRA.

Jumping on the bandwagon of the organization which is "winning" doesn't set right with me, especially if it goes against every freedom this country stands for.

 

[mgregg85]

I want to be a member of a gun org that has some influence in the next administration (and I suspect for the next decade or two). My $25 bet is that organization will be the AHSA, not the NRA.

Just how far down does one have to keep his head in the sand to believe that the AHSA is in any way, shape or form a pro 'gun org'?

I've got a shovel but I'm thinking you'd need some kind of oil well drilling rig to get deep enough to believe their crap.

 

[No Fear]

Just how far down does one have to keep his head in the sand to believe that the AHSA is in any way, shape or form a pro 'gun org'?

I've read this entire thread and didn't see ANYONE saying that AHSA is "pro gun." I can't stand AHSA but I can see RPCVYemen's point about influence, especially after NRA just blew millions on a horse that never had a chance in my view.

AHSA just MIGHT be forced to oppose some gun bans in this next administration, in order to maintain their false appearance of supporting the 2nd amendment. That may turn out to be helpful since there won't be a solitary SOUL in the Obama admin who will listen to the NRA at this point (unless NRA can get influence over congress-critters).

 

[RPCVYemen]

I don't think the policies of the AHSA go against every freedom this country stands for. Their stance on .50 BMG is silly.

The NRA has given boatloads of money to people intent on shredding every amendment other than the 2nd - I was no happier with that than I am with the AHSA stance on the .50 BMG. The NRA donations struck directly against more American freedoms than any .50 BMG ban - however stupid.

I would be interested in any link to AHSA policy about the AWB, if you have one.

Mike

 

[Justin]

AHSA just MIGHT be forced to oppose some gun bans in this next administration, in order to maintain their false appearance of supporting the 2nd amendment.

I wouldn't bet on it, nor would I donate money based on such a flimsy notion.

 

[RPCVYemen]

Where have these fine centrist Democratic leaders gone to?

They have come back - that's how the Dems regained control of Congress and won in safe Republican states like Virginia and North Carolina.

The Dems - at least the ones who win - have moved back to the center (at least on this issue).

Mike

 

[TexasRifleman]

I would be interested in any link to AHSA policy about the AWB, if you have one.

AHSA supports closing down gun shows

AHSA supports bans of .50 caliber weapons

AHSA's board members are all high dollar contributors to HCI

AHSA's board members testified IN FAVOR OF NYC in the NYC vs Beretta case.

AHSA has NO lobbying arm, required by law if they plan to try to influence any voting by Congresscritters.

At least one AHSA board member was also a board member of HCI, now Brady Campaign

Joe Vince, AHSA board member, worked for ATF and

HELPED WRITE THE CLINTON ASSAULT WEAPON BAN.

Please disprove anything I've posted. (Here's a hint, it's all been VERY well documented by The National Shooting Sports Associaton)

What planet are you from where those things don't matter?

 

[bdickens]

Obama was/is a liar!!! He's as phony as a $3 bill.

...with a 75-cent peice taped to it!

Ever stop to think that maybe if the Demopublicans had some pro-gun candidates, that the NRA might support them too.

Yeah, I know that there is the odd Democrat or two who is semi-solid on the Second Amendment, but the fact of the matter is that between the Republocrats and the Demopublicans, the former tend to do a whole lot better than the latter on the 2d.

 

[No Fear]

I wouldn't bet on it, nor would I donate money based on such a flimsy notion.

Oh believe me, I don't plan to give AHSA any money, but it's not a flimsy notion at all. AHSA needs to keep it's false appearance of being pro 2nd amendment and they will be cornered into opposing some of the coming congressional gun bans whether they like it or not. Granted, they probably won't be very loud in their opposition, but the people who run AHSA are crafty/scheming little devils who know the political game.

Joe Vince, AHSA board member, worked for ATF and

HELPED WRITE THE CLINTON ASSAULT WEAPON BAN.

Yea that supports my suspicion but it remains to be seen what AHSA will do PUBLICLY when gun bans start showing up in congress.

 

[langenc]

Remember-"By their fruits ye shall know them"--and I add-individuals, organizations or whatever.

They may try to change spots but like the leopard, it is not possible.

The only problem with the NRA-then, now or in the future is that to many weasels have all kinds of excuses for NOT joining.

 

[Larry E]

A gun owner who is a member of AHSA and thinks they may do some good is sort of like a Jew in 1930's Germany donating money to the Nazis because they've built nice autobahnen and the VW is kind of cute too.

The NRA didn't support Republicans because they were Republicans, but because for the most part Democrats have voted to ban guns, institute ever stricter gun control laws, and/or spoken out for banning of various and sundry ill defined types of firearms. The NRA rated the governor of Montana and our senior Senator as "A", and selected the Democrat incumbent for governor over the Republican.

 

[Juna]

The Dems - at least the ones who win - have moved back to the center (at least on this issue).

You apparently haven't see Obama and Biden's records on gun control (or any of the majority of the Dems in power in Congress, for that matter). Obama makes Bill Clinton look like Charlton Heston.

I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, but I cannot bring myself to vote for a Democrat who supports gun control (which is the vast majority of them). The NRA does endorse some Democrats (pro-gun Democrats). The reason they side with Republicans usually is b/c 90+% of Democrats are anti-gun, and most Republicans are pro-gun. In my state congressional district, however, BOTH the Dem and the Rep running are anti-gun, so the NRA didn't endorse either of them.

Any time a politician uses the phrase "common sense legislation," it's a HUGE red flag for something that will violate your rights and has no evidence to support it. Obama uses that phrase a LOT.

When we start electing Libertarians, we'll be much better off in terms of maximal freedom and minimal government. The NRA needs to endorse more Libertarians. If we had more Libertarians in debates and in office, we'd be better off for it. Instead of choosing between pro-gun or anti-gun, there'd be multiple pro-gun options. This would also weaken the anti-gunners b/c it would pull from some of their voting pool.

 

[mothergoose]

The NRA has actually supported Democratic candidates before. I know for a fact they supported Gov. Barnes here in GA when he was running in 02. He was a Democrat. How many republicans has AHSA supported? The same argument you are using about the NRA being tied to the republicans can be used for the AHSA and the dems.

I am not saying that the NRA is not closley tied to the republicans, but so am I. And really the reason is guns. The republicans are more likley to vote in favor of my 2nd amemdment rights. You are just giving money to the enemy and hoping that people with a long history of supporting gun bans change their minds to keep up the illusion. I got a big surprise for you, the illusion is only there so they can get enough support to ban your guns. They have no need to keep it up beyond getting massive restrictions passed.

Do you go to meetings with child molesters? I guess you figure since you can't stop them you might as well try to keep them away from your kids right? Maybe you can convince them to only attack 3 kids instead of 4 this month. No, of course you don't. Because the action is wrong and you will not give even an inch in that belief.

I feel the same way about guns. No way would I donate money to a group who doesn't share my opinions.

 

[prickett]

Oh believe me, I don't plan to give AHSA any money, but it's not a flimsy notion at all. AHSA needs to keep it's false appearance of being pro 2nd amendment and they will be cornered into opposing some of the coming congressional gun bans whether they like it or not.

You are assuming this organization won't disappear now that their goal has been achieved.