Do you really have to 'work on' a NIB Kel-tec P-11?
- Thread starter Climb14er
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Firestar,
You have a right to your opinion, and a right to share it here. You're always welcome to come back to KTOG if you can ever get your password to work again. Must have been bad kahrma or something. Anyway, let's move on and get back to positive gun talk. Best regards, Keys
You have a right to your opinion, and a right to share it here. You're always welcome to come back to KTOG if you can ever get your password to work again. Must have been bad kahrma or something. Anyway, let's move on and get back to positive gun talk. Best regards, Keys
I'm not going to let you guys stop me from voiceing my opinion. You have your opinion and others have their's. If we can't speak our mind on what guns we feel are total crap, then we might as well be writing for a gun rag.
IMHO, Kel-Tecs are total crap! They are cheaply made and many of them don't work. There is no shortage of complaints about them on this and other forums so I don't think I am the only one to have problems.
Every time someone asks my opinion about Kel-Tecs, I am going to give them the truth. Why would I want someone to get screwed on a gun purchase? The more bad guns that are sold, the more people will be turned off shooting. Every Kel-Tec that is sold means a good gun sits on the shelf and that is wrong. It is fine if you want to fiddle with your guns but many new shooters don't want to compleatly take their gun apart and "Fluff & Buff" it. These jam-o-matics and break-o-matics are going to get someone killed! That is no joke and I don't think it is funny. What if wife or daughter had to use a Kel-Tec to defend themself? I bet you would feel a little differently or at least I hope you would.
IMHO, Kel-Tecs are total crap! They are cheaply made and many of them don't work. There is no shortage of complaints about them on this and other forums so I don't think I am the only one to have problems.
Every time someone asks my opinion about Kel-Tecs, I am going to give them the truth. Why would I want someone to get screwed on a gun purchase? The more bad guns that are sold, the more people will be turned off shooting. Every Kel-Tec that is sold means a good gun sits on the shelf and that is wrong. It is fine if you want to fiddle with your guns but many new shooters don't want to compleatly take their gun apart and "Fluff & Buff" it.
These jam-o-matics and break-o-matics are going to get someone killed! That is no joke and I don't think it is funny. What if wife or daughter had to use a Kel-Tec to defend themself? I bet you would feel a little differently or at least I hope you would.coldshot03/04
member
My KT Works 100% straight out of the box. 
Bersa
Bersa
It's emotional statements such as this that hurt your credibility. If that's been your experience, then you're entitled to that opinion, of course. But you'll just have to make room for the (many) people who have had great experiences with Kel-Tec.
I think it's fair to say that Kel-Tec has had more than it's fair share of warranty returns, as compared to other manufacturers. It's also unfair to ignore the fact that Kel-Tec has improved it's QC greatly of late, and reduced the incidence of warranty returns. I base this on casual observation of boards like this, and gun shop chatter.
My late model P11 ran 100%, out of the box, and still does.
PS- No-one here has cornered the market on "truth".
Uh, Excuse me.....
I've never posted here before, but I guess an unsolicited opinion is now warranted.
My Kel-Tec P-11 has over 3,400 rounds through it and it still goes BANG every time I want it to, and it even hits what I'm aiming at!!! Greatest little gun I could have ever bought! Best conceal weapon for the money, for sure. Service by the factory is unmatched by any other manufacturer (and not just gun manufacturers).
Maybe Firestar just needs to go shooting his gun (practice makes perfect, you know) instead of what he seems most intent to shoot off.
I've never posted here before, but I guess an unsolicited opinion is now warranted.
My Kel-Tec P-11 has over 3,400 rounds through it and it still goes BANG every time I want it to, and it even hits what I'm aiming at!!! Greatest little gun I could have ever bought! Best conceal weapon for the money, for sure. Service by the factory is unmatched by any other manufacturer (and not just gun manufacturers).
Maybe Firestar just needs to go shooting his gun (practice makes perfect, you know) instead of what he seems most intent to shoot off.
ColonelJim
Member
I guess I'll jump in here too. I've had my P-11 (s/n 125,xxx) since Nov '02. Had an FTE at round 50, FTE at round 600, FTF round 100(?) all with Winchester White box ammo out of 1200 rounds. 100 rounds of Gold Dot JHP, no problems with that ammo at all. I'm pretty happy with those results. Have a S&W 3960 which I really like too, but I've had more problems with it than the P-11.
SSGMike
Member
My take on the truth...
The truth is, I have a late-model P11 (SN 132XXX) that I have run 300 rounds through now, with only one Fail-To-Feed (round 20 or so) that I attributed to limpwristing. All I've done is fieldstrip, clean and lube it. I'm sold.
The truth is, I have a late-model P11 (SN 132XXX) that I have run 300 rounds through now, with only one Fail-To-Feed (round 20 or so) that I attributed to limpwristing. All I've done is fieldstrip, clean and lube it. I'm sold.
DDGator
Member
Have you been paying attention? Wife or daughter? Many people on this thread absolutely do rely on a KT for defense every day -- myself included.
What motivation do you think we have to carry such a "junk" gun? What kind of conspiracy could this be? Are we all paid KT employees? Or -- are we all just too stupid to realize the guns are junk and don't work?
Lastryghts
Member
quote:
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What if wife or daughter had to use a Kel-Tec to defend themself? I bet you would feel a little differently or at least I hope you would.
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My girlfriend would grab my KT befor the glock, beretta, ect if anyone was ever stupid enough to break in. It's what she feels most comfortable with.
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What if wife or daughter had to use a Kel-Tec to defend themself? I bet you would feel a little differently or at least I hope you would.
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My girlfriend would grab my KT befor the glock, beretta, ect if anyone was ever stupid enough to break in. It's what she feels most comfortable with.
Walt Sherrill
Member
And the rest of the responses aren't honest? Come on, guy... Just because people disagree with you, that's no reason to call them dishonest.
The P-11 had some teething problems in the first years of production, but that seems to be long behind them.
I carried a P-11 for several years, and moved on to another small gun -- a Star Firestar Plus -- which I find easier to shoot well. I sometimes regret trading the P-11 away. It was always reliable and always accurate (when I did my part); I just found it hard to do my part, sometimes. The problem with the Firestar Plus -- getting parts if it ever breaks. (Little things like firing pins can be a problem.)
I never had a problem with the P-11 in thousands of rounds shot.
Would I get another? Yeah.
Would I buy a Sub-2000. I traded for one, and found that it didn't stoke my fire. Very reliable and very accurate, and absolutely trouble free.
Will I get one of the new .380s. Yeah, probably will.
Redleg6
Member
Much as I enjoy Flyer's prose (and firearms expertise), the original question asked was (to paraphrase): "does a new owner have to 'fluff and buff' a new Kel-Tec P-11 to get it to be totally reliable and a smooth shooter or is the Kel-Tec a 'runner' right out of the box?"
The overwhelming consensus of replies from P-11 owners (and a handful of P-32 shooters as well) here has been "the Kel-Tec of today (and last year and the probably year before that) is not only a 'runner', but a pretty darn fair decathlete. Like Felonious Monk, I looked long and hard for the right (affordable) concealed carrier pistol after many years of M1911 use...I REALLY wanted a .45, and I really thought that the Taurus P145 would be the answer...I just couldn't get past the cracking frames--not the production problem itself, but the company's response (or lack thereof). When I gave up on finding a .45 for that role and started looking at 9mm's, I found the KT P-11 standing by itself in the marketplace...a combination of
small, light, inexpensive (not cheap), high mag capacity that put it (on paper) in a unique niche among autos designed from the ground up as a CCW piece.
I was also impressed by word-of-mouth feedback on the way the company stands behind its products and treats its customers. Everything I read or heard also said that Kel-Tec was well past any initial production hiccups (which unlike Taurus they never denied and quickly went to prodigious ends to fix) and that they were worth taking a chance on...heck, the P-11 retail price was ONE THIRD what my next best candidate was selling for. So I took the plunge, but the day I did I went off to my local friendly hardware store and bought all the supplies for a full scale Fluff and Buff.
Bottom Line: I now own twin P-11's with consecutive SN's in the 120,XXX range. The F & B supplies are still on my closet shelf. Straight from the box, just cleaned and lubed them, as I would do with any new firearm. The results: absolute, unqualified, no taurine by-product, flawless (e.g. Perfect) performance--100% functioning on a diet of 100% hollow points, 147 grain and 115's...Win White box and Remington/UMC cheap stuff....these things weren't s'posed to eat JHP's without at least a polish job, but I have yet to fire an FMJ round in the several thousand I've put through it and I have never had a problem. Go figger. My other autos are a vintage Government M1911 and an original High Standard Military B...the Kel-Tecs are AT LEAST as reliable...probably more so, if I had ever had enough problems with any of them to stat keeping statistics.
Can a new owner buy a P-11 with confidence?...you bet. Be confident you are getting an innovative design concept, now well executed in the production process, backed by a company with perhaps the finest customer service orientation in the business, that is an exceptional dollar value, and is marvelously well-suited to its intended purpose of concealable, reliable, high-volume close-in firepower.
The overwhelming consensus of replies from P-11 owners (and a handful of P-32 shooters as well) here has been "the Kel-Tec of today (and last year and the probably year before that) is not only a 'runner', but a pretty darn fair decathlete. Like Felonious Monk, I looked long and hard for the right (affordable) concealed carrier pistol after many years of M1911 use...I REALLY wanted a .45, and I really thought that the Taurus P145 would be the answer...I just couldn't get past the cracking frames--not the production problem itself, but the company's response (or lack thereof). When I gave up on finding a .45 for that role and started looking at 9mm's, I found the KT P-11 standing by itself in the marketplace...a combination of
small, light, inexpensive (not cheap), high mag capacity that put it (on paper) in a unique niche among autos designed from the ground up as a CCW piece.
I was also impressed by word-of-mouth feedback on the way the company stands behind its products and treats its customers. Everything I read or heard also said that Kel-Tec was well past any initial production hiccups (which unlike Taurus they never denied and quickly went to prodigious ends to fix) and that they were worth taking a chance on...heck, the P-11 retail price was ONE THIRD what my next best candidate was selling for. So I took the plunge, but the day I did I went off to my local friendly hardware store and bought all the supplies for a full scale Fluff and Buff.
Bottom Line: I now own twin P-11's with consecutive SN's in the 120,XXX range. The F & B supplies are still on my closet shelf. Straight from the box, just cleaned and lubed them, as I would do with any new firearm. The results: absolute, unqualified, no taurine by-product, flawless (e.g. Perfect) performance--100% functioning on a diet of 100% hollow points, 147 grain and 115's...Win White box and Remington/UMC cheap stuff....these things weren't s'posed to eat JHP's without at least a polish job, but I have yet to fire an FMJ round in the several thousand I've put through it and I have never had a problem. Go figger. My other autos are a vintage Government M1911 and an original High Standard Military B...the Kel-Tecs are AT LEAST as reliable...probably more so, if I had ever had enough problems with any of them to stat keeping statistics.
Can a new owner buy a P-11 with confidence?...you bet. Be confident you are getting an innovative design concept, now well executed in the production process, backed by a company with perhaps the finest customer service orientation in the business, that is an exceptional dollar value, and is marvelously well-suited to its intended purpose of concealable, reliable, high-volume close-in firepower.
Felonious Monk
Member
Firestarter wrote:
Will you buy me a better gun? I'd be happy with even a Makarov or a Bersa Thunder if I knew it came from you.
Hugs, big fella
Tickle me Fel-Mo
chortle....giggle.....Chuckle.....SNORT......BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!! 
I feel a close affinity for you, Firestar. In fact, I genuinely care about your well-being, and hope the feelings are mutual. Right now, the P-11 is all I can afford to carry.
Will you buy me a better gun? I'd be happy with even a Makarov or a Bersa Thunder if I knew it came from you.
Hugs, big fella
Tickle me Fel-Mo
chortle....giggle.....Chuckle.....SNORT......BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
coldshot03/04
member
WOW, I have got to go study the history of firearms after all of this.
Ps Put 25 more rds through my P32 this morning It still goes bang.
Ps Put 25 more rds through my P32 this morning It still goes bang.
Felonious Monk
Member
LOL!
Yeah--that's it! Baghdad Bob!!!
"The minarets are NOT BURNING! It is a computer-generated HOAX by the great Satan, America!"
"Pay no attention to the little man behind the curtain--I am the Mighty OZ!"
"Kel-Tec sucks, dude".
ROTFLMAO!
Yeah--that's it! Baghdad Bob!!!
"The minarets are NOT BURNING! It is a computer-generated HOAX by the great Satan, America!"
"Pay no attention to the little man behind the curtain--I am the Mighty OZ!"
"Kel-Tec sucks, dude".
ROTFLMAO!
Bagdad Bob?
That is the funniest connection I can possibly think of. Way to go 9X19! You have made my day, and added some humor to this, well, whatever this thread is all about. Oh yeah, back on topic - you don't have to F&B a Kel-Tec P-11 out of the box to have a very sweet carry pistol. Yep, I shot mine five minutes after I picked it up at the dealer. My only complaint that day was the length of the trigger pull, but I got used to it.
Enjoy the weekend guys. You too Firestar. It's all just good natured gun ribbing talk. (I know what you're thinking, yeah I'm the Easter Bunny too). I'm outta here. Regards, Keys
That is the funniest connection I can possibly think of. Way to go 9X19! You have made my day, and added some humor to this, well, whatever this thread is all about. Oh yeah, back on topic - you don't have to F&B a Kel-Tec P-11 out of the box to have a very sweet carry pistol. Yep, I shot mine five minutes after I picked it up at the dealer. My only complaint that day was the length of the trigger pull, but I got used to it.
Enjoy the weekend guys. You too Firestar. It's all just good natured gun ribbing talk. (I know what you're thinking, yeah I'm the Easter Bunny too). I'm outta here. Regards, Keys
Lets try and keep this civil. I have never attacked any of you guys, I attacked a gun that I honestly feel is a bad choice for staking your life on. I don't hate KT or any of you guys but a newbie asking questions should get the bad with the good. I asked questions before I bought my P-32 but because I wanted one so bad, I looked past the complaints and only saw the good.
I had enough problems with my P-32 that I would never be able to recomend them to anyone. I think the trigger axis is a design flaw and the reports of it breaking are proof of this. Without a trigger, you don't even have one shot so reliablilty is not even a question at that point. Mine broke AND had reliability problems. Kel-Tec will fix your gun as many times as you are willing to send it back to them. I wish I had the good luck that many of you claim to have had but from my experience with my P-32 and my friends P-40 and a few other Kel-Tecs that I have known people to have, I wouldn't call them a reliable gun. I only know one person that has never had a probelm with there P-32 and he doesn't shoot it enough to really put it through it's paces. He is a cop and I doubt he has fired more than 100 rounds in two years through his P-32.
I am not bashing KT because I have any motive. I am just telling it like it is. My opinion and experience should count as much as the next guy's. I didn't buy a P-32 because I wanted an excuse to complain about something. I wanted to like it but after 400-500 rounds with various problems, I gave up. If a carry gun is not reliable, there is no point in having it. A gun that breaks in your pocket like mine apparently did is a scary thought and if you carry a P-32, you should think about it and not just sweep it under the rug. The P-32 has major reliablity and design problems based on feedback online and from my personal experience. How can I recomend a gun like that?
BTW, I don't even own a Kimber. I don't know how that rumor got started.
I had enough problems with my P-32 that I would never be able to recomend them to anyone. I think the trigger axis is a design flaw and the reports of it breaking are proof of this. Without a trigger, you don't even have one shot so reliablilty is not even a question at that point. Mine broke AND had reliability problems. Kel-Tec will fix your gun as many times as you are willing to send it back to them. I wish I had the good luck that many of you claim to have had but from my experience with my P-32 and my friends P-40 and a few other Kel-Tecs that I have known people to have, I wouldn't call them a reliable gun. I only know one person that has never had a probelm with there P-32 and he doesn't shoot it enough to really put it through it's paces. He is a cop and I doubt he has fired more than 100 rounds in two years through his P-32.
I am not bashing KT because I have any motive. I am just telling it like it is. My opinion and experience should count as much as the next guy's. I didn't buy a P-32 because I wanted an excuse to complain about something. I wanted to like it but after 400-500 rounds with various problems, I gave up. If a carry gun is not reliable, there is no point in having it. A gun that breaks in your pocket like mine apparently did is a scary thought and if you carry a P-32, you should think about it and not just sweep it under the rug. The P-32 has major reliablity and design problems based on feedback online and from my personal experience. How can I recomend a gun like that?
BTW, I don't even own a Kimber. I don't know how that rumor got started.
Safety First
Member
Firestar, I have just a few thoughts on the previous messages I have read regarding Kel-tec and your opinion of them. First of all,IMHO you should be free to voice your displeasure about any gun, just as I should or any other member here. So I have no reason to take a swipe at you or give you a hard time about your opinion. However, if you are just guessing about the one in four kel-tec guns being a poc, just say so or tell us where you got those stats. The other thought that ran thru my mind, is why not take one more chance on what soooo many people seem to think is a great little pocket gun? I know you had a bad experience but maybe the next time you will get one of those good out of the box guns. You may be missing a good opportunity to own a really good pocket gun, after all there do seem to be a lot of kel-tec owners who feel the gun is utterly reliable. Now that said, I will probably buy one of the P-3at's in next few months ( if not the next few weeks) myself. I have to admit I am a little apprehensive but I feel there are so many happy owners that I will join the list..time will tell..Again Firestar,just trying to find the positive middle ground. Best regards...
None of my four Kel-Tecs have never given me a moment's trouble... yet you classified my post as a lie.
Challenging the veracity of a host of people is not attacking?
"Count as much", yes, but you seem to want ONLY your opinion to be taken as as truth... see:
firestar wrote:
Too often, people think that their opinion IS the truth, but it very seldom is.
You apparently had ONE P-32 that suffered a broken trigger axis. It appears that your experience is unusual. Was it the first machine you ever had that suffered a broken part?
You can speak the truth about YOUR P-32, a Kel-Tec, but that's where it ends. The sooner you realize that your opinion is only as credible as your PERSONAL experience backing it up, the sooner you will yourself become credible and people who know you will seek you out to hear your opinion about all kinds of things. However, you'll also know enough to not make up things to "support" cock-eyed biases you have or that ohers may impart to you or isolated circumstances may cause you to guess about.
As for this thread, the original poster asked about NIB P-11s? If you don't have any personal experience with a NIB P-11, your opinion is irrelevant, isn't it?
Don't you see how foolish that statement is? Why not just give them your OPINION since that's what they asked for?
Too often, people think that their opinion IS the truth, but it very seldom is.
You apparently had ONE P-32 that suffered a broken trigger axis. It appears that your experience is unusual. Was it the first machine you ever had that suffered a broken part?
You can speak the truth about YOUR P-32, a Kel-Tec, but that's where it ends. The sooner you realize that your opinion is only as credible as your PERSONAL experience backing it up, the sooner you will yourself become credible and people who know you will seek you out to hear your opinion about all kinds of things. However, you'll also know enough to not make up things to "support" cock-eyed biases you have or that ohers may impart to you or isolated circumstances may cause you to guess about.
As for this thread, the original poster asked about NIB P-11s? If you don't have any personal experience with a NIB P-11, your opinion is irrelevant, isn't it?
matsaleh
Member
I want a P-11. Anyone who thinks theirs is junk can send it to me for thorough testing. I'll provide you with a report in four or five years, and if it's no good, I will dispose of it for you safely.
Whatever. Clearly there are no problems with Kel-Tec guns and I am just making them all up.
Flyer has broken 3-4 trigger axis on his P-32 and others have broken their trigger axis as well. The FTE jams are so common that Kel-Tec knows just what you are talking about before you finish your sentance. There are real problems with the P-32 but I am not going to take it on myself.
I didn't just have one or two problems with my P-32, I had many problems and the gun seemed like it was just self destructing the more I tried to shoot it. One of my shooting buddies was considering buying a P-11 but after seeing all the problems I had with my P-32, he changed his mind. I never told him anything abad, he saw it for his own eyes when I would try to shoot my gun and it would jam or malfunction in some way. Broken trigger axis, FTE jams that made the gun return to the factory where they replaced the top half of the gun rather than fix it, slide stop not holding the slide back on the last round once in a while, trigger not engaging the sear properly for some reason, etc, etc.
Maybe if you get a bad one you REALLY get a bad one. For some reason I am the only one on this thread that is giving the bad news about Kel-Tec but if you do a search here or at KTOG, you will find a treasure trove of horror stories about Kel-Tec guns.
The 25% thing seems to be the average when someone does a online poll about Kel-Tec reliability. If you don't believe me, start up a poll and see how many people come out of the woodwork and tell you about their POS Kel-Tec.
I don't think Kel-Tec is the worst gun ever made but it is not even close to being up there with the good ones. I am not going to argue with you fanatical Kel-Tec fans anymore because by defination, Kel-Tec fans really aren't worth arguing with. It makes about as much sense as claiming that the GEO Metro is the best car ever made. Kel-Tec=Geo Metro
Flyer has broken 3-4 trigger axis on his P-32 and others have broken their trigger axis as well. The FTE jams are so common that Kel-Tec knows just what you are talking about before you finish your sentance. There are real problems with the P-32 but I am not going to take it on myself.
I didn't just have one or two problems with my P-32, I had many problems and the gun seemed like it was just self destructing the more I tried to shoot it. One of my shooting buddies was considering buying a P-11 but after seeing all the problems I had with my P-32, he changed his mind. I never told him anything abad, he saw it for his own eyes when I would try to shoot my gun and it would jam or malfunction in some way. Broken trigger axis, FTE jams that made the gun return to the factory where they replaced the top half of the gun rather than fix it, slide stop not holding the slide back on the last round once in a while, trigger not engaging the sear properly for some reason, etc, etc.
Maybe if you get a bad one you REALLY get a bad one. For some reason I am the only one on this thread that is giving the bad news about Kel-Tec but if you do a search here or at KTOG, you will find a treasure trove of horror stories about Kel-Tec guns.
The 25% thing seems to be the average when someone does a online poll about Kel-Tec reliability. If you don't believe me, start up a poll and see how many people come out of the woodwork and tell you about their POS Kel-Tec.
I don't think Kel-Tec is the worst gun ever made but it is not even close to being up there with the good ones. I am not going to argue with you fanatical Kel-Tec fans anymore because by defination, Kel-Tec fans really aren't worth arguing with. It makes about as much sense as claiming that the GEO Metro is the best car ever made. Kel-Tec=Geo Metro
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