KEL-TEC P-11 reliable enough for use as ccw?
- Thread starter MR.G
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alamo
Member
I would say so. Mine has been totally reliable from the first round.
Sean Smith
Member
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The real answer to this sort of question is, "it depends." You shouldn't trust a weapon until you have test-fired it, no matter what brand it is.
M2 Carbine
member
It's my second choice when I can't carry a Kimber 45.
I'll carry it in a boot.
Even my 40 cal conversion is reliable.
I'll carry it in a boot.
Even my 40 cal conversion is reliable.
sm
member
My only poly gun is P-11, I was asked to T&E this one. From get-go has been 100% reliable. Yes I use mine for CCW at times...it fills a niche.
I have thousands upon thousands of rds through mine. As I do any gun and load I carry , I test a min of 200 rds of a carry load. I have a variety of carry ammo I can use. Some have as much as 3k rds tested, others run from 500 rds on up.
A friend thinks I have 20k+ through this gun...we don't know. We did run 3K rounds in a week of a certain load because we got a deal on 3k rounds and used it at the range and had some students to teach, my gun was used and this ammo run through. That and buying a case of something and run it is how he is basing the rd count. Ran 3k rds through a 1911 of mine that week as well.
I tend to use 115 gr in mine. KT "kinda" recommends this grain weight. Probably has more to do with "weight to horsepower" [ weight of gun to recoil of payload]. Wear and tear on gun is one thing, repeated heavy loads in a given weight cases accelertaed wear on anything...no matter the platform or if steel. alloy or poly.
Another thing to remember is the shot to shot placement. How fast you can get back on target .
Yeah I have run the various loadings from 90 to 147 , standard to +P+....
Gun must be reliable, with its ammo, affording shooter quick accurate hits.
I check POA/POI as well. Granted we are talking Keltec sights and a short bbl. NOt the greatest sights, and that bbl will not give the velocities in a book because those figures are form longer bbls.
For what it is designed for the P-11 works...Just like a Glock 26...others...
One fella with older eyes went with the Ashley sights...very nice set up and he prefers the Federal Classic 115 gr JHP... good load, mine likes it as well...always been constistent. Currently mine has the 115 gr STHP. Extra mags have FMJ, another has the 147 gr SXT...another a Black Hills load ...etc.
I don't get all caught up ...I test, I know, I grab what is handy from a known and tested variety. Hey I may get caught out and need to buy...or maybe someone want to give me some ammo...
I have thousands upon thousands of rds through mine. As I do any gun and load I carry , I test a min of 200 rds of a carry load. I have a variety of carry ammo I can use. Some have as much as 3k rds tested, others run from 500 rds on up.
A friend thinks I have 20k+ through this gun...we don't know. We did run 3K rounds in a week of a certain load because we got a deal on 3k rounds and used it at the range and had some students to teach, my gun was used and this ammo run through. That and buying a case of something and run it is how he is basing the rd count. Ran 3k rds through a 1911 of mine that week as well.
I tend to use 115 gr in mine. KT "kinda" recommends this grain weight. Probably has more to do with "weight to horsepower" [ weight of gun to recoil of payload]. Wear and tear on gun is one thing, repeated heavy loads in a given weight cases accelertaed wear on anything...no matter the platform or if steel. alloy or poly.
Another thing to remember is the shot to shot placement. How fast you can get back on target .
Yeah I have run the various loadings from 90 to 147 , standard to +P+....
Gun must be reliable, with its ammo, affording shooter quick accurate hits.
I check POA/POI as well. Granted we are talking Keltec sights and a short bbl. NOt the greatest sights, and that bbl will not give the velocities in a book because those figures are form longer bbls.
For what it is designed for the P-11 works...Just like a Glock 26...others...
One fella with older eyes went with the Ashley sights...very nice set up and he prefers the Federal Classic 115 gr JHP... good load, mine likes it as well...always been constistent. Currently mine has the 115 gr STHP. Extra mags have FMJ, another has the 147 gr SXT...another a Black Hills load ...etc.
I don't get all caught up ...I test, I know, I grab what is handy from a known and tested variety. Hey I may get caught out and need to buy...or maybe someone want to give me some ammo...
I would say so...I am carrying 1 of them as we speak....I have 2..Each weapon has at least 500 rounds through it with no jams or FTF's...
They are great little pistols...If they have any kinks they can usually be worked out with a mild Fluff and buff...And some dry firing can take care of the trigger...
They are great for pocket carry (got one in my pocket) and they are also great for IWB or belt carry...But pocket carry seems to be the most popular...11 rounds of 9mm at your fingertips..
I think you will be pleased with the P-11
They are great little pistols...If they have any kinks they can usually be worked out with a mild Fluff and buff...And some dry firing can take care of the trigger...
They are great for pocket carry (got one in my pocket) and they are also great for IWB or belt carry...But pocket carry seems to be the most popular...11 rounds of 9mm at your fingertips..
I think you will be pleased with the P-11
sm
member
For the price of a Keltec P-11 there are other options as well. Another dealie of mine is what platform can a shooter best shoot and what caliber.
Many students went with a police trade in Model 10 or other used S&W for the same money. This allowed monies for ammo, belt, holster, more training...etc. Just a thought...the way my mind works on a CCW and the budget one has.
One went with a Ruger Security Six, a Sheriff trade in...later bought another with 4" bbl for nightstand...
See what you shoot best and go from there...
Many students went with a police trade in Model 10 or other used S&W for the same money. This allowed monies for ammo, belt, holster, more training...etc. Just a thought...the way my mind works on a CCW and the budget one has.
One went with a Ruger Security Six, a Sheriff trade in...later bought another with 4" bbl for nightstand...
See what you shoot best and go from there...
It depends. The short answer is that many people do rely on them. I wouldn't.
I don't mean to overcomplicate things for you, but the long answer requires more information. A lot depends on your personal threat profile, where and how you live, your level of proficiency, etc.
Be safe,
Paladin7
I don't mean to overcomplicate things for you, but the long answer requires more information. A lot depends on your personal threat profile, where and how you live, your level of proficiency, etc.
Be safe,
Paladin7
Walt Sherrill
Member
Very reliable gun, generally. (The exceptions are known quickly.)
The downside is that the P-11 is not a gun that's easy to shoot well. It takes some getting used to. If you're willing to do that, you'll be hard-pressed to find more bang for your buck, or even for a lot more bucks.
I carried one for several years. I now carry a CZ-75B Compact. Much heavier, but I shoot it better.
The downside is that the P-11 is not a gun that's easy to shoot well. It takes some getting used to. If you're willing to do that, you'll be hard-pressed to find more bang for your buck, or even for a lot more bucks.
I carried one for several years. I now carry a CZ-75B Compact. Much heavier, but I shoot it better.
obiwan1
Member
Mine is 100% with factory magazines. About 10% with aftermarket mags. Needless to say I trashed the aftermarkets and bought factory.
Clark
Member
My Kel-Tec P11 is 100% reliable, even though I have mistreated it with overloads for 5 years.
bradvanhorn
Member
I fully trust my Kel-Tec P-11. It is easy to conceal, carries well, it is plenty accurate for 20 yards or less, and it gets you 10 rounds of 9mm ammo. I think that makes it a great CCW choice. I do prefer to carry a full-size 1911, but if I can't, then my P-11 is my next choice.
Mine, too. I don't have 10k rounds through it. Maybe closer to 1,500 or 2k. But I do enjoy it. I've even been known to shoot it at 100 yards. First time I tried, I was shooting at a (discarded) metal real-estate sign. Roughly 2' X 3'. Hit it 8 for 10 on the first attempt. That's when I went from "this is a nice gun to carry" to "I really like this gun."
sensei
Member
Kel-Tec P11.
Just never could get it to where I trusted it for my carry piece. Wanted it to carry when I couldn't carry my G-30. It would work great for 200 rds. Then it wouldn't work multiple times in the next 200 rds. Worked great next 200 rounds, no worky for next 200 rounds. I finally gave up.
Sold it and bought a Kahr PM9.
I love it.
sensei
Just never could get it to where I trusted it for my carry piece. Wanted it to carry when I couldn't carry my G-30. It would work great for 200 rds. Then it wouldn't work multiple times in the next 200 rds. Worked great next 200 rounds, no worky for next 200 rounds. I finally gave up.
Sold it and bought a Kahr PM9.
I love it.
sensei
fastbolt
Member
You're probably going to have to pay your money, and take your chances ... but it's really that way with just about any firearm, over the long term.
Of the 4 folks that I can remember off hand that brought P-11's to our range for qualification ... 3 non-L/E for CCW and one L/E for off duty qualification ... only one of them were able to complete a minimum course of fire without any malfunctions.
I don't know what that means, if it means anything. Four examples aren't enough to draw any valid conclusions from, statistically speaking.
Just as a half dozen examples of pistols that function flawlessly aren't enough to categorically say that this performance is guaranteed to be representative of all models ...
Would 125 excellent owner reports be sufficient to offset 25 poor owner reports? You have to decide for yourself where to draw the line, if a line has to be drawn ...
I watched a man experience at least one failure to extract, per each magazine load of 6 rounds, when shooting a P-11 recently for a CCW qualification course ... and yet, when I borrowed that same pistol and fired 2 fully loaded magazines, using 147gr JHP ammunition, versus the 115gr FMJ the owner was using when the malfunctions occurred, I didn't experience a single failure to extract in 20 rounds. I did experience a failure-to-fire which required a second trigger stroke, though. Then again, we've experienced somewhere approaching approx a dozen such failures-to-fire with this last shipment of training ammunition, and in different pistols ... so who's to say what's actually responsible for the "malfunctions" in any exact instance?
During that session, as coincidence would have it, there was another P-11 on the range, and it was in the hands of the man standing immediately next to the fellow experiencing the malfunctions ... and THAT P-11 was the one I initially mentioned that completed the course of fire without any malfunctions whatsoever.
You have to remember that when it comes to semiauto pistols, though, that the firearms manufacturers have NO control over two critical aspects ... the person shooting the firearm, and the ammunition used in it. A significant majority of malfunctions experienced with semiauto pistols are often determined to be caused by either the shooter, or the ammunition.
Shooter-induced malfunctions can be as "simple" as failing to provide a firm & stable shooting grip for an ultra-lightweight, reduced size, polymer framed pistol, too.
On the other hand, I wouldn't want to always bet on getting the same level of production quality when comparing $200, $400 & $600 pistols, either. Sometimes you really might get "all" that you pay for ... or are willing to pay for.
No matter what you decide to buy, you need to maintain it properly, and shoot a reasonably sufficient number of rounds of whatever your preferred "service" ammunition may be, in order to determine whether that particular pistol & ammunition are suitable for your needs.
As was mentioned, there's been quite a number of thread topics involving this subject, here ... and among the various firearms boards. Why not run a Search on several of the forums and see what you find that's already been discussed?
Try these others to start ... in addition to the older TFL archives ...
http://glocktalk.com/
http://www.warriortalk.com/
http://www.pistolsmith.com/index.php
Of the 4 folks that I can remember off hand that brought P-11's to our range for qualification ... 3 non-L/E for CCW and one L/E for off duty qualification ... only one of them were able to complete a minimum course of fire without any malfunctions.
I don't know what that means, if it means anything. Four examples aren't enough to draw any valid conclusions from, statistically speaking.
Just as a half dozen examples of pistols that function flawlessly aren't enough to categorically say that this performance is guaranteed to be representative of all models ...
Would 125 excellent owner reports be sufficient to offset 25 poor owner reports? You have to decide for yourself where to draw the line, if a line has to be drawn ...
I watched a man experience at least one failure to extract, per each magazine load of 6 rounds, when shooting a P-11 recently for a CCW qualification course ... and yet, when I borrowed that same pistol and fired 2 fully loaded magazines, using 147gr JHP ammunition, versus the 115gr FMJ the owner was using when the malfunctions occurred, I didn't experience a single failure to extract in 20 rounds. I did experience a failure-to-fire which required a second trigger stroke, though. Then again, we've experienced somewhere approaching approx a dozen such failures-to-fire with this last shipment of training ammunition, and in different pistols ... so who's to say what's actually responsible for the "malfunctions" in any exact instance?
During that session, as coincidence would have it, there was another P-11 on the range, and it was in the hands of the man standing immediately next to the fellow experiencing the malfunctions ... and THAT P-11 was the one I initially mentioned that completed the course of fire without any malfunctions whatsoever.
You have to remember that when it comes to semiauto pistols, though, that the firearms manufacturers have NO control over two critical aspects ... the person shooting the firearm, and the ammunition used in it. A significant majority of malfunctions experienced with semiauto pistols are often determined to be caused by either the shooter, or the ammunition.
Shooter-induced malfunctions can be as "simple" as failing to provide a firm & stable shooting grip for an ultra-lightweight, reduced size, polymer framed pistol, too.
On the other hand, I wouldn't want to always bet on getting the same level of production quality when comparing $200, $400 & $600 pistols, either. Sometimes you really might get "all" that you pay for ... or are willing to pay for.
No matter what you decide to buy, you need to maintain it properly, and shoot a reasonably sufficient number of rounds of whatever your preferred "service" ammunition may be, in order to determine whether that particular pistol & ammunition are suitable for your needs.
As was mentioned, there's been quite a number of thread topics involving this subject, here ... and among the various firearms boards. Why not run a Search on several of the forums and see what you find that's already been discussed?
Try these others to start ... in addition to the older TFL archives ...
http://glocktalk.com/
http://www.warriortalk.com/
http://www.pistolsmith.com/index.php
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