Do you think the .40s&w would be as popular without the mag ban?

[megatronrules]

Do any of you feel as i do that the .40S&W would be as popular if the magazine capacity ban hadden't happened? I feel the AWB has played a big role in this round's popularity. I guess people figured "If your gonna have 10 rounds make them 10 big ones" and yada,yada

I personaly feel the 9mm is a great round w/little performance differance from the .40s&w w/modern jhp's. I also fell if the AWB dies we sill see another wondernine resurgeance. Let me know what you guys agree or not,also I am not caliber bashing or anything just rying to get an idea on my theory thats all.

 

[MarineTech]

I've always felt that the 7 rounds in my Officer's sized 1911 was adequate for the job of keeping me safe. If I wanted to spray lead all over an area, I'd get a paint sprayer and some lead based maritime paint.

Truthfully, I thought about the ban ending the other day, and being allowed to own high cap mags again. Then I realized that with the exception of 20 round M14 magazines, every firearm that I own is a single stack or revolver. So, no, the repeal of the ban will have not effect on my carrying more rounds.

 

[Spackler]

Many law enforcement agencies, though not affected by the restriction to ten round magazines, have transitioned to the .40S&W, and I think this accounts for some or much of it's popularity. So my answer is yes.

 

[jdmb03]

I think the stopping power of the .40 over the 9mm is the main reason why it does so well. The mag cap ban really doesn't help it or hurt it.

 

[CB900F]

Megatronrules;

The decline & resurgance of any particular caliber is an ongoing process. Yes, a change in the law may very well cause a change in the sales of a particular caliber. However, other factors can be just as, if not more, significant than a change in the law.

Witness the sales of the Smith model 29 after the Dirty Harry movies were released. The back from the dead phenomenon of the single action revolver following the cowboy western popularity of the 1950's. Media is certainly not the only motivator of such swings in sales. The media as a whole has never treated Glock pistols as 'a good thing'. Nonetheless, they sell.

The exploits and reputation of one man, can make a caliber. Witness Jack O'Conner and the .270 Winchester. Or Jeff Cooper and the .45ACP. Although I'm inclined to think that Mr. Cooper would himself deny his own responsibility & credit Mr. Browning and the gun itself.

Finally, whatever round the U.S. military establishment adopts is, ipso facto, going to be popular a long long time. .45 Colt, and .45-70, .30-06, .308, .223, etc, etc.

So, if the magazine limitations are lifted, will the .40S&W change in popularity? Sure. But maybe not for that reason. Who knows, perhaps a week after the bans go, some private citizen will wipe out an entire terrorist cell smuggling a nuke into the country & give all the credit to his .40S&W.

900F

 

[tiberius]

Truthfully, I thought about the ban ending the other day, and being allowed to own high cap mags again. Then I realized that with the exception of 20 round M14 magazines, every firearm that I own is a single stack or revolver. So, no, the repeal of the ban will have not effect on my carrying more rounds

Funny, That is my exact situation. Out of 20+ firearms, only my M1A is capable of accepting normal capacity mags of capacity > 10 rounds.


The .40 is very popular in LEO circles and they are not affected by the 10 round limit. Anything that is popular with LEO's will also be popular with the general public, so I don't think the ban had any influence in its popularity.

 

[Sir Galahad]

I went through the .40S&W thing. Just went back to 9mm. Why? For one thing, I find the 9 to be more accurate (OUT OF MY HANDS...out of MY hands---don't bite my head off!! ) The 9 is less expensive to practice with. There have been a few "fail to stops" with the .40 and that's why some agencies have gone to .357 Sig. Some agnecies change calibers as often as some people order pizza. Truth is EVERY caliber has "fail to stop" horror stories, even the beloved .45ACP. The .223 used to be at the top of that list. Truth also is, among pistol calibers, the 9mm Parabellum has probably killed more people, both bad and good, since 1930 than any other pistol caliber with the possible exception of the .45ACP with 7.62 Tokarev as a runner-up. Out of German Schmeissers, the 9mm probably killed up into the million or more mark (of course, that's out of a SMG, but, hey, it's still the same 9mm with a few more FPS.) The whole "stopping power" thing is vastly hyped and overblown. A 9mm in the vitals is going to do more than a .40S&W or .45ACP in the arm. When the Mossad set out to bump off the Munich Olympics Massacre terrorists, they did so with .22LR Berettas. Not saying .22LR is a good choice, but the point is, their instructor stressed marksmanship, marksmanship, marksmanship. (They were also doing the bumping off in large European cities and needed the quiet report of the .22 as not to alarm the sheeple that saw nothing wrong with terrorists living amongst them.) What does inexpensive 9mm ammo mean? More practice. Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Perfect practice means lots of practice. I'll take my 9mm. And I found new in-the-package factory high-caps for it, so I am a happy man.

 

[WonderNine]

The media as a whole has never treated Glock pistols as 'a good thing'. Nonetheless, they sell.

I disagree as Glocks are in every movie you see nowadays and I believe Glock will continue to sell strong as we'll have a whole wave of Counterstrike babies in the market or hitting the market in the next few years who don't know anything about guns other than that they want a Glock and a Desert Eagle .50 cal.

I don't know if we'll see a huge resurrgence of the 9mm popularity as you can already get 15 round preban mags that hold .40 S&W so alot of people will stick with .40. There's also some high capacity .45's out there like the Glock which I believe holds 13+1 and the Kimber and Para Ordinance 1911 styles which hold 14+1.

However I personally prefer 9mm over both rounds for many reason which I'm not going to go into right now. I like .45, but I despise the .40 S&W round. I like the idea of the 10mm and .41 magnum for whatever that's worth.

 

[Rich357]

If you are using standard, non-extended, magazines:

Glock 17 holds 17 +1 rounds of 9mm

Glock 22 holds 15 +1 rounds of .40S&W.

I think the .40S&W will continue to be popular.

Rich

 

[Mike Irwin]

The .40 S&W had nearly a 5 year run up before the ban hit. It was wildly popular before the mag. capacity ban.

I sincerely doubt that its popularity would have been one way or the other.

 

[Bobarino]

if the mag ban goes away, i'll still carry .40S&W. even if i had my choice of 15+1 rounds of 9mm or 12+1 of .40, i'd go with the .40. why? cuz i just like it. the ballistics are good, but they don't everwhelm me as compared to 9mm and .45ACP. truthfully, i'm not really sure why it appeals to me so much, it just does. i'm considering a Kel-Tec P11 for jogging and light clothes, but my primary gun will probably always be a .40S&W. just cuz i like it.

Bobby

 

[bountyhunter]

"Do any of you feel as i do that the .40S&W would be as popular if the magazine capacity ban hadden't happened?"

Mag capacity isn't the main reason for the .40SW popularity. The .40 SW is the decendant of the 10mm round the FBI originally asked for to get increased stopping power. The need had nothing to do with magazine capacity, some say it was driven by shootouts where the 9mm and .38 didn't cut it for fast kills on armed perps (like the infamous Miami shootout).

The .40SW is catching on fast because it is a very good optimization of the tradeoff between recoil, mag capacity, and knockdown power. That being the case, mag capacity will not change it.

 

[Handy]

Aside from my personal feelings on .40, I think the death of the ban will cause a resurgence of 9mm interest, and perhaps new super hicap designs - 18 rounds!

One thing that has happened over the last ten years is the price of 9mm has fallen. In the early '90s, Walmart sold 50 rounds for $9. They now sell 3 brands for $5.69. That makes an impression on the average consumer.

 

[BigG]

The 9mm is definitely a step down from the 40 except on head shots, especially on the unsuspecting. Then anything will do, including 32ACP or 22 long rifle.

 

[TheMariner]

I love the .40... big enough to make ball effective yet not a larger recoil...

BTW... the GLock was featured favorably in US Marshals....

Interesting that you bring up CS as a possible venue for potential for a rise in Glock sales... Similarly, a rise in DE and Baby DEs could be seen along with HKs and Sigs...

 

[10-Ring]

I am not a fan of the 40 S&W & most of the guys I shoot w/ aren't fans of the round either. Based on a very limited sample group, I doubt the ban made any difference on the popularity of the 40 S&W.

 

[Landric]

Howdy,

I do not like the .40S&W much. I think it is an excellent trade off between capacity and stopping power, and it offers a good selection of bullet weights and velocities, all of which have proven to be effective.

However, I don't like shooting it at all. Recoil is too snappy, accuracy is generally only so-so, and something about the .40 just does not agree with me.

I don't think capacity has much to do with the .40 being popular though. After all, the .40S&W showed up on the scene in 1990, and the AWB didn't hit till Sept. of 1994. By 1994 the .40 was here to stay.

I think that the best thing the AWB did for us was to get manufactures to stop worrying about maximum capacity and make pistols chambered for "serious" calibers smaller, lighter, and easier to carry.

All in all, I think the .40 was a great idea, and it does what it was intended to do, but I still don't like shooting it. Personally, I would rather have a .45ACP, not because I believe the myth of the .45ACP, but because I like shooting it a lot more and I am more accutate with it. The fact that I have lower capacity than the average .40 does not bother me in the least.

 

[SquirrelNuts]

I am a 9mm fan due to many factors, but I am considering buying a .40 in the near future. I am the type of person that decides if they like a specific caliber, and then sinks a lot of cash into that caliber. I KNOW that I would run out and buy myself a Glock 22 if I could get full capacity magazines for $16, rather than $80 each. I am sure that a lot of people would do the same for the Glock 17 if 9mm full caps were not expensive as well.

On the other hand, I know a lot of people like the compact size guns, and they might not mind losing a couple rounds to stick with the .40. For example, the Glock 23 is 13+1, so 10+1 is not a HUGE difference. Then someone looks at a Glock 19, and there is a good difference between 15+1 and 10+1, so you might lean towards the .40.

Overall, the AWB is harmful to everyone. Rosie had to spend a little more cash to buy her body guards full caps. It is also harmful to the .40 to answer your question, YMMV.

-SquirrelNuts

 

[Skofnung]

I don't think the ban had much to do with the .40's popularity. The .40 appeals to folks with smaller hands who are uncomfortable with a larger framed auto, but want more "stopping power" than a 9mm.

If the ban had an effect on anything, it was the popularity of the .45. I remember (I was 15 when the ban hit) many people at the gun club that my father and I frequented had nothing nice to say about the 1911 before the ban hit. They were in the cult of high capacity. A few years after the ban took effect, they were singing the praises of the old JMB design and badmouthing the weenie 9mm. Follow the trend I guess.

I find it funny that once the local PD switched to .40, the same group switched and started badmouthing BOTH the .45 and the 9mm as obsolete.

I do not care for the .40 myself. I like (and carry) 9mm and .45 for autoloaders. I believe that the .45 has a slight edge, but the 9mm is in no way lacking for personal defense use. This is not to say that the .40 is not useful, I just do not care for it, due to my own personal experience with one.

If the ban sunsets, we will all be better off, regardless of what caliber you use.

 

[Gordon Fink]

If I were allowed to carry, it would be with single-stack pistols, whether chambered in 9×19mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP. For double-stackers, 9×19mm will probably be the limit for me. Of course, in California, we commoners have our very own magazine-capacity limit, and it’s not going away anytime soon.

~G. Fink

 

[CWL]

.40 S&W became popular as a result of the famous Miami FBI shootout. It was decided that .38s and 9mms weren't effective stoppers so the 10mm, 10mm-lite and .40S&W came into existence as a direct result.

Adoption by large law-enforcement agencies helped fan this wave.

It was also aided by real or perceived beliefs that this caliber was the first 'new' & scientifically designed cartridge. It was the new 'magic bullet'.

The mag ban had nothing to do with interest in, or popularity of the .40 S&W.

In contrast, the .45ACP has experienced a renewed popularity thanks to the ban.

 

[Zundfolge]

I think one of the biggest effects of the mag ban has been the explosion of .40 and .45 mousegun-sized guns, but .40 was popular in duty size weapons before the ban (mostly because of the whole FBI 10mm experiment which led to the .40S&W).

I also wonder if Kahr would have done as well if we didn't have the mag capacity limit.

On a side note, since the ban how many new states have passed CCW laws? I'm wondering if the mag ban did trigger the creation of lots of new CCW size guns if that didn't help push people to push for CCW in their states.

 

[DougB]

I think the magazine capacity limiit was a significant factor in .40S&W popularity (though probably not the biggest one - as has been pointed out). I know that when I consider a new handgun in 9mm/.40 size (P99 for example), I would almost always pick a ten-round .40 over a 10-round 9mm in the same handgun. If I were choosing between 17-round 9mm and a 13-round .40 versions of the same pistol, I might well go with the 9mm. I think the .40 is marginally more effective than the 9mm, but not greatly so. I think that 99% of shots would have the same effect if they were made using premium loads in either caliber. Of course, this is just my opinion, and certainly open to debate. On the other hand, you'll definitely have four additional shots with the 9mm, and less expensive practice ammo. I think this would tip many buyers toward the 9mm if full-capacity magazines were easily available.

Doug