Do you trust Remmington SD ammo?

[Candyman87]

My carry ammo is Hornady Critical Defense.

That being said, I've carried the Golden Saber .380 and 9mm, but I go back to Hornady when it's available.

As far as other loads... I'll buy Remington UMC FMJ when its a decent price. My guns will eat it and I have no issues in my time, but have had issues with WWB 9mm. But my 9's like Blazer Brass the best.

For shotgun? I'm almost exclusively Gun Clubs... I like the hulls for reloading but the factory round is just as good. I just like to reuse where possible

 

[Bama Drifter]

There was a time long ago that I "trusted" factory ammo. Then I took up reloading and discovered just how poorly made factory ammo can be. You would be amazed. After having seen factory rounds with primers installed backwards or crushed sideways in the case and cases with no flash hole it was fairly obvious that if you want ammo good enough to stake your life on you must build it yourself because no one is going to have higher standards than you are when it absolutely positively must work every time.

+1 on rolling your own, w/ minor caveat. In my jurisdiction I feel that I'm better off loading ONLY factory ammo for SD... Win PDX1 or Speer Gold Dot work great. Range ammo, however is much better and safer to use my hand loads. As Mas Ayoob and others have mentioned, using reloads for SD may be construed as "malice aforethought" by some knavish lawyer or judge.

I've found via reloading that Remington brass is much softer than Fed or Win, with Winchester being the toughest pistol brass. In rifle reloading I'm strictly a Fed/ Lake City brass man. YMMV

 

[Drail]

I right with ya on Fed/Lake City brass man. Federal and Winchester military is about all I load anymore. I think the reason Remington seems "soft" is just because it is so thin. With their pistol brass it's very hard to get any case neck tension. Any Remington brass that gets tossed in my bucket is given away.

 

[Teachu2]

Do you trust Remmington SD ammo?

About as much as I trust Hillary.

 

[JonB]

Never tried the SD ammo from Remmington. However, I just shot a box of their 9mm practice stuff out of my XD and it was dismal. I have never had stovepipes or other issues with my XD (which I bought when they first came out), but had several in one box of Remington. Switched to my hand loads and the XD ran flawless like it always has. So, it didn't build any confidence for me that Remington ammo is worth much.

I'll stay away from it personally.

 

[IWAC]

I think about any SD loading from any major manufacturer will give good service. I somewhat prefer Speer Gold Dots, but, they are hard to find locally. The "tests" on YouTube are interesting, but some are not indicative of actual performance.

My preferences, not in any particular order are: Remington +P 158gr SWCHP, (The Dade County, FBI, Canadian Mounties' load!)
Remington 125 gr SJHP 38 +P, Speer 135 gr Short barrel +P, Rem BJHP (Golden Saber) 38 +P.

If I ever get a 9, a good 115-124 gr standard pressure JHP will be my go-to load.

Ballistic proctology is fun, but, laying it aside, the three most valuable rules in a SD situation are HIT THE TARGET; HIT THE TARGET; HIT THE TARGET!

 

[TruthTellers]

I think about any SD loading from any major manufacturer will give good service. I somewhat prefer Speer Gold Dots, but, they are hard to find locally. The "tests" on YouTube are interesting, but some are not indicative of actual performance.

That's not true. Yeah, any projectile being pushed out the barrel is better than no projectile, but the point of self defense handgun ammo is to maximize the effectiveness of an otherwise under powered round.

There's a reason the FBI stopped using Winchester Silvertip, there's a reason someone is questioning Remington SD ammo, there's a reason there's a huge amount of testing being done on .380 JHP which the majority of has shown to not penetrate deeply enough, etc.

There's no guarantee that self defense ammo will work as advertised in every gun that exists. True, not every test can replicate a real world scenario, but any test is better than any advertisement.

 

[basicblur]

As Mas Ayoob and others have mentioned, using reloads for SD may be construed as "malice aforethought" by some knavish lawyer or judge.

While I'm sure he may have mentioned that, I think the main reason he suggests you use factory ammo is should your defense lawyer ever have to test fire a round in order to bolster your defense, if you were using reloads you're screwed.

If you are using factory ammo, the court will probably allow test fired ammo into evidence as the ammo is supplied by a disinterested third party (the OEM ammo maker). You think the court is going to take your word for what was / is in the reload you want to test fire and offer up as evidence?

I know of at least one case he cites where he thinks the gentleman convicted was innocent, but due to the fact that he was using reloads, the court would not allow test fired rounds to be entered into evidence.

Remember George Zimmerman and all the evidence presented by his defense AFA powder burn patterns and how it related to distance, etc?
He was using factory ammo - if he had been using reloads, his defense would not have been able to present some of the evidence to show Trayvon Martin was in close proximity / on top of him when he was shot.

 

[Bama Drifter]

thread drift

Hmmm... Thanks Basicblur for expanding my thinking on that. I know for "most folks in most states" the idea seems preposterous. But here in People's Repub. of SoCal it is a very real fear that some jackwagon DA will hammer you over a defensive shooting, ESP. if it involves reloads. Keeping a goodly supply of your carry load (Speer, Winchester, Fed, Hornady, or whatever) is a good thing. Another salient point that Mas brings up is that by using what the cops use, you are shooting to "stop the threat" not kill or inflict pain for the heck of it. God forbid any of us Regular Joes ever needs it, but like a fire extinguisher... better to have the best you can afford!

PS. answer to OP
No, I don't trust Rem ammo. I don't trust Remington anything, except for my 870 and GC target loads. Their rifles have become crap, their pistols are a joke, and as previously mentioned I'm not a fan of thin cheap pistol brass. YMMV

 

[basicblur]

No problem...

You folks are really freaking me out with this Golden Saber thread!?

A few years back I was at Lawmans in Raleigh, NC - just checking ammo prices, and he had 357 SIG Golden Saber for $17.99 / 50.

I was hesitant (when it's too good to be true...) - I wheeled around and headed for the door - salesman asked me where I was going - told him I was going to turn the car around, back it in, and pop the trunk! (I loaded up)!

From previous experience with a local police supply house, I know sometime they have sales on ammo they get back from various agencies when they go to something else or ? I figured his prices on the 357 SIG Golden Saber may have been a case similar to this?

Anywho...I put a few boxes thru my P229R with no problems - darn stuff was cheaper than my FMJ range ammo!

 

[ATN082268]

As Mas Ayoob and others have mentioned, using reloads for SD may be construed as "malice aforethought" by some knavish lawyer or judge.

Who cares what a lawyer or judge thinks. What really matters is what a jury will think.

 

[Deanimator]

Their .22lr has traditionally been garbage, with a LOT of misfires. A couple of friends once bought cases of it and ended up sending it back for refunds.

I've never had any trouble with their center fire ammunition, for handguns or rifles.

 

[Steve C]

I have no problem with loading Remington Golden Sabers for self defense use in either factory loads or as a hand loaded component. Have always found the rounds to be accurate and function well in my handguns both factory and hand loads.

Have the ammo in .45 9mm, .38 spl, .357 mag. and from the Youtube tests and Marshal Sannow data the .38 spl Golden Saber is one of the better choices for SD in that cartridge. The .357 mag GS is probably the best choice to use in K frame S&W's to avoid the issue of forcing cone cracking with full power loads.

For an inexpensive SD load in 9mm the Remington 115gr JHP's in +P has a good reputation as an effective load and their 125gr full power .357 mag load is top of the charts for self defense.

 

[BobWright]

I test fire all of my factory loaded ammunition that I carry for social purposes.




Then use the empty brass to load my own.

Bob Wright

 

[SC Shooter]

Most of my range shooting are hand loads. However, whenever I have used Remington factory loads, I have always had good success. I will say, I have a lot of Remington stuff, two pistols, two rifles, and one shotgun, all of which I am very happy with. To me, Remington is a lot like Wal-mart. Everybody wants to pile on, just because they're the biggest, the oldest, or whatever. Like all companies, Remington has had its ups and downs, but overall, it has been a great provider of American made goods and survived down turns that others have not.

 

[gamestalker]

I don't shoot much factory, but Remington has never given me any problems, and certainly not their shotgun shells.

But if I were to carry factory SD ammo, I would go with Speer Gold Dots, they've always been a premium factory cartridge IME.

Outside of that, I shoot reloads 99.9% of the time.

GS

 

[IWAC]

Who cares what a lawyer or judge thinks. What really matters is what a jury will think.

As Mas Ayoob also said...It's the PROSECUTOR who will ultimately put you into the clutches of the court system. The last time I looked, the prosecutor IS a lawyer!

I believe the admonition has been to try several flavors of ammunition in your SD weapon after you fire at least 200 rounds through the gun, to be sure all the pieces fit properly, then choose the best ammo For YOUR gun, and stock up as circumstnces permit. Could be Federal, Remington, Winchester, or...

 

[basicblur]

Who cares what a lawyer or judge thinks. What really matters is what a jury will think.

Well that's even worse!?

In my small 'burb, criminals often opt for the judge rather than trial by jury.

Being a small town, folks around here don't put up with all the PC foolishness that seems to have permeated the big cities, and juries around here have a "hang 'em!" attitude.

Criminals / defense lawyers know that, so the BG would often rather have his case tried before a judge rather than a jury.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

Thanks guys. I think I am going to stick with my 9BPLE. I've shot enough of it to know that it works, and I can't imagine that anything on the market is a significant enough improvement to justify any potential reliability questions. If I switch, I'll probably go with a Federal or a Speer offering. Since Freedom Group took over, I just don't think Remington has the same quality as it did before. Even if I trusted Remington SD ammo purchased in 2015, I don't think I'd trust stuff purchased in 2016 or 2017.

I don't reload, so I am sticking with commercial offerings. Even if I did, I wouldn't think twice about carrying it. Trial attorneys are trial attorneys because they can piece together seemingly inconsequential details to support their narrative. A good trial attorney will demonize hollow points, FMJ or whatever other bullets you chose. Whatever gun you use, will be compared to some bad guy or make you into a wannabe cop/soldier/security guard. Any nits about bullet or weapon selection are inconsequential in the whole scheme of things - it is a good shoot or it is not. If you think bullet selection will make a difference legally you probably shouldn't pull the trigger.

 

[basicblur]

Since Freedom Group took over, I just don't think Remington has the same quality as it did before. Even if I trusted Remington SD ammo purchased in 2015, I don't think I'd trust stuff purchased in 2016 or 2017.

Folks need to drill this into their head - times / things change - with all the consolidation brought on by many of the venture capitalists these days, quality often is the first thing sacrificed in the name of profits.

A good trial attorney will demonize hollow points, FMJ or whatever other bullets you chose.

Go back and read post #33 - the primary reason it's recommended you carry factory loads is not because you might be demonized for rolling your own.

it is a good shoot or it is not.

Once again (and we can't seem to kill this outdated saw), exactly who is it that decides whether it is a good shoot or not?

Are you willing to put your life in their hands?

Everybody decide accordingly...

 

[Artofgolf]

Thanks guys. I think I am going to stick with my 9BPLE...

Sounds like a good call