Do you use a chronograph?
- Thread starter BUGUDY
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bullseye308
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I am starting to use one. It is very helpful if you are trying to duplicate a factory load for example, or you want to figure drop over a distance. It can also be a good indicator of when you are approaching dangerous pressure. It is also fun trying not to hit it. 
As a side note, buy a wooden dowel the same diameter as the steel rods and pre-cut it to length just in case you hit one. That way you won't have to pack up and go home before you are done. Not that it ever happened to me....
As a side note, buy a wooden dowel the same diameter as the steel rods and pre-cut it to length just in case you hit one. That way you won't have to pack up and go home before you are done. Not that it ever happened to me....
The Bushmaster
Member
Well a chronograph will help you determine if you are under, matching or exceeding factory fps. However...Most of the time you will not match listed or factory fps because you were not using the same barrel as the original fps readings were taken from. But, you will be close. I have some reloads that are under listed fps, some that match listed fps and some that exceed listed fps. The most important thing is whether they are accurate or not from your gun over a given distance...
And if you pay attention you will not shoot your chronograph. If you are shooting a rifle with a scope over the sensors. Allow for the highth of the scope over the barrel. I've been using my Pact 1 with the same parts for the last 20 years and haven't hit it yet...
And if you pay attention you will not shoot your chronograph. If you are shooting a rifle with a scope over the sensors. Allow for the highth of the scope over the barrel. I've been using my Pact 1 with the same parts for the last 20 years and haven't hit it yet...
bullseye308
Member
It is also a good way to know how consistant your loads are. Stuff like ES and SD can help you fine tune a load.
ES extreme spread
SD standard deviation
ES extreme spread
SD standard deviation
USSR
Member
+1.
Don
glockgod
Member
I think everyone who handloads ammo should have one! The Chrony models are almost within everyones price range.
Smokey Joe
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Chronograph, YES!
Bugudy--As has been pointed out, a chronograph is not necessary for reloading, but is very helpful. The Shooting Chrony models are nice. I got a steal of a deal on the Gamma model, so I bought it, thinking "What do I want with all those bells & whistles??"
Let me tell ya, having the machine do all the math, and print up the results right there on the range, and having the readout on the bench rather than out by the sensors (therefore less to replace when--not if--you shoot the sensor unit) is (Tony the Tiger voice) Grrrr-EAT!!! (/Tony the Tiger voice)
Nice for other shooters @ the range, too. They come over, see what I'm doing, and want their loads chrono'd, and I can hand them a slip of paper with the results. Good for maintaining a positive balance of favors (like a positive balance of trade for nations.)
Agree w/Bullseye 308--
Bottom line: A chronograph is nice to have. Helps in developing loads and other uses. Shooting Chrony's are nice but I would not denigrate any other brand.
Bugudy--As has been pointed out, a chronograph is not necessary for reloading, but is very helpful. The Shooting Chrony models are nice. I got a steal of a deal on the Gamma model, so I bought it, thinking "What do I want with all those bells & whistles??"
Let me tell ya, having the machine do all the math, and print up the results right there on the range, and having the readout on the bench rather than out by the sensors (therefore less to replace when--not if--you shoot the sensor unit) is (Tony the Tiger voice) Grrrr-EAT!!! (/Tony the Tiger voice)
Nice for other shooters @ the range, too. They come over, see what I'm doing, and want their loads chrono'd, and I can hand them a slip of paper with the results. Good for maintaining a positive balance of favors (like a positive balance of trade for nations.)
Agree w/Bullseye 308--
But I'll go him one better--And Mr. Shooting Chrony recommends this also--Get wood dowels and replace ALL the steel rods holding up the shaders, BEFORE you shoot one of the steel rods. Less potential damage to the chronograph base that way. I carry extra dowels in my "chronograph kit," a fishing tackle box where the Chrony fits, plus the printer, all the rolled-up wires, extra batteries, extra printer paper, etc, etc, etc. As a side benefit of using this kit, I don't have to fold up the Chrony when putting it away.
Bottom line: A chronograph is nice to have. Helps in developing loads and other uses. Shooting Chrony's are nice but I would not denigrate any other brand.
After using one for 15 years, the thought of not having one is unimaginable, and right up their with not having an analog dial caliper.
As far as which one to buy, if you are still shopping I had a good first basic Chrony F1, and then a total POS Chrony F1 Master. Now using a ProChrono Digital, and it's actually enjoyable again to gather data. If they (Competition Electronics) would offer an IR remote unit for the ProChrono Digital, it would be unbeatable IMO for a non IR sensored chronograph.
As far as which one to buy, if you are still shopping I had a good first basic Chrony F1, and then a total POS Chrony F1 Master. Now using a ProChrono Digital, and it's actually enjoyable again to gather data. If they (Competition Electronics) would offer an IR remote unit for the ProChrono Digital, it would be unbeatable IMO for a non IR sensored chronograph.
R.W.Dale
Member
A chronograph is an invaluable reloading tool and is the ONLY reliable and widely avalible method to determine the pressure of your loads
The Bushmaster
Member
Krochus...Read...It is one of the many indicators for determining pressure. Surely not the determining factor...All a chronograph does is tell you how fast your bullets are traveling. You must, using other data and the chronograph, determine if you might be over pressure.
Am I doing something wrong? I load all my reloads according to published data. I start at the recomended min. load and work up in half grain increments. I watch for pressure signs on every fired case. When I find the load that gives me the best accuracy, I tinker with it (C.O.L; different brand primer,etc.). If my loads are within the published data, why should I care what the velocity is? If I can't hit anything with a certain load, I don't care how close it is to matching factory loads. I thougt we reloaded to make better ammo than what we can buy. Not trying to start an argument, just curious why I need a chronograph. Please educate me. Thanks.
XD-40 Shooter
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I use a chrony because I really enjoy clocking my reloads and seeing what the extreme spreads are, its fun. I bought the basic shooting chrony for $85 at Sportsmans Warehouse, I like it.
The Bushmaster
Member
Ky Larry...You will get no argument from me as you are correct in your statement. Your method will not let you down. As stated before. A chronograph is an unnecessary tool to aid in cartridge development.
bullseye308
Member
A chrono just gives you more info to better understand your loads. It is not necessary, most of us that have one loaded just fine for years without one and got by. There is a lot of info they provide if it is something you want to know, but if you are satisfied just loading something that is accurate and don't need all the other info, there is nothing wrong with that either. It has it's place for some and for others it is just an unnecessary toy. I'm an info junkie and I use mine.
R.W.Dale
Member
The chrony and reloading manual are the only hard numbers you have in determining safe max loads. Looking at primers and case head expansion are about as an accurate indicator of pressure as throwing a handful of chicken bones on the floor. You're simply fooling yourself if you think you've determined ANYTHING from the condition of a fired case short of a full on rupture or a primer falling out.
Because sometimes you'll end up with loads that while under max will chronograph faster than the published data indicates for a given or shorter barrel length. That is a HUGE indicator that you should STOP right there and reevaluate.
A chrony also helps greatly in those all too frequent situations where different manuals give wildly differing max loads.
Lastly a chrony will improve your shooting prowess because once your velocity is known ballistic data all of the sudden can apply to your rifles. Without a chrony at the range and a laser rangefinder in the field I couldn't have made this shot.
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=405210&highlight=bloodied
qajaq59
Member
They're really nice if you have the place to use them. However, if you hold up the line to set it up on a busy day at the range, you can get unpopular real quick.
A couple of observations. I use a Chrony Beta.
1. Be sure to allow enough distance between muzzle and face of the chronograph. I melted the faceplate from burning powder impact from placing too close to the muzzle of a rifle. (Replacements were inexpensive and readily available from mfg. Now I use the plexiglas covers in case I have another senior moment.)
2. I find it real helpful in load development, especially when trying to duplicate hot factory ammo for magnum pistol. I found it not so easy to duplicate Federal performance in 41 magnum, for example. The Fed factory is pretty hot. (In addition, you don't have to worry about what barrel and conditions was used for load book data. You can calibrate against factory in your own gun.)
3. I have always heard you can load better than factory. I have found that you can TAILOR your ammo to your guns for improved accuracy, but beating most reputable factory ammo for consistency can be a challenge. The biggies, Rem, Win, Fed, etc. do a pretty good job and are generally amazingly consistent. (That is, in terms of standard deviation and extreme spread.)
1. Be sure to allow enough distance between muzzle and face of the chronograph. I melted the faceplate from burning powder impact from placing too close to the muzzle of a rifle. (Replacements were inexpensive and readily available from mfg. Now I use the plexiglas covers in case I have another senior moment.)
2. I find it real helpful in load development, especially when trying to duplicate hot factory ammo for magnum pistol. I found it not so easy to duplicate Federal performance in 41 magnum, for example. The Fed factory is pretty hot. (In addition, you don't have to worry about what barrel and conditions was used for load book data. You can calibrate against factory in your own gun.)
3. I have always heard you can load better than factory. I have found that you can TAILOR your ammo to your guns for improved accuracy, but beating most reputable factory ammo for consistency can be a challenge. The biggies, Rem, Win, Fed, etc. do a pretty good job and are generally amazingly consistent. (That is, in terms of standard deviation and extreme spread.)
The Bushmaster
Member
Well Krochus...I refer back to post 11 and 14...I have made longer shots without having the information of a chronograph with my Browning .30-06 and hand loads. Yes. Having a chronograph is nice when you are working at the higher end of the powder charge, but the lawyers have pretty much illiminated any real over charge fears for those without a chronograph even at those levels. It is not often that I use the data from my chronograph to determine over pressure. I usually note other indicators long before I note anything from my chronograph. Such as pierced, sooty or cratered primers. Sticky extraction, damaged rims from extractors. Excessively ballooned cases, or large number of split cases in a set that has few reloadings.
Will I be without my trusty 20 year old Pact Mod 1 when working up new reloads? No....Like Bullseye308 said. I, too, am a bit of a data freak.
Will I be without my trusty 20 year old Pact Mod 1 when working up new reloads? No....Like Bullseye308 said. I, too, am a bit of a data freak.
243winxb
Member
chronograph
For long range 600+ yards, knowing your ES extreme spread &
SD standard deviation is importent. Other wise its just a new toy. The first chronograph i shot over had wire running through a piece of cardboard. When the bullet broke the wire the timer started, the 2nd one stopped the timer. Then the new sky screens came out, great new invention. I did not learn anything from it. What is on the target is what counts. The guy i sold the chronograph to killed the sky screen with the first shot.
For long range 600+ yards, knowing your ES extreme spread &
SD standard deviation is importent. Other wise its just a new toy. The first chronograph i shot over had wire running through a piece of cardboard. When the bullet broke the wire the timer started, the 2nd one stopped the timer. Then the new sky screens came out, great new invention.
I did not learn anything from it. What is on the target is what counts. The guy i sold the chronograph to killed the sky screen with the first shot. 
.38 Special
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A chronograph is a fun and useful toy for many of us, for many of the reasons already mentioned above. I have one and use it regularly, and if I lost it I'd buy another.
Ky Larry cuts through the BS though. It is absolutely possible to work up loads according to the manual, observe for "traditional" signs of excessive pressure -- which are very unlikely to occur if using modern materials and adhering to the manual -- and end up with an accurate, deadly load. And the best way to "calculate" long range trajectory --no matter how fancy your gadgetry -- is to actually shoot the gun and load at long range.
So yes, chronographs are fun and informative, and no, chronographs aren't at all necessary.
HTH!
Ky Larry cuts through the BS though. It is absolutely possible to work up loads according to the manual, observe for "traditional" signs of excessive pressure -- which are very unlikely to occur if using modern materials and adhering to the manual -- and end up with an accurate, deadly load. And the best way to "calculate" long range trajectory --no matter how fancy your gadgetry -- is to actually shoot the gun and load at long range.
So yes, chronographs are fun and informative, and no, chronographs aren't at all necessary.
HTH!
Wilburt
Member
Havn't heard anyonemention this reason: I don't have one but I am getting one b/c i'm trying to work up loads for IDPA. No one around here I know has one so....
USSR
Member
Respectfully disagree with you, krochus. Brass at high pressure goes thru a series of events prior to the primer coming out and case failure. Aside from primer condition (which is unreliable), there is: brass flow into the extractor hole, which leaves a shiny mark on the headstamp; and gas cutting around the perimeter of the primer. Also, you will generally experience heavy bolt lift prior to the primers coming out, to say nothing about case failure. The truth is, the more indicators you use (chrony, brass condition, etc.), the better indication of high pressure you have available to you.
Don
.38 Special
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Problem with that, as per the last time we went around on this subject, is that brass varies, as do chambers. You can have soft brass that shows traditional pressure signs with safe loads, and hard brass that resists flowing even at extreme pressures. Same goes for primers -- most of us have seen Federal handgun primers, for instance, flattening and cratering even with light target loads. Additionally, a rough chamber or an oversize firing pin hole can create pressure signs, while a tightly fitted target gun with a polished chamber will gracefully extract 85,000 PSI loads with nary a peep.
There's nothing wrong with looking at traditional pressure signs and using them as part of the experience. Pretending that these rough guesses are truly dependable predictors of pressure, though, is a mistake IMO. The only thing the handloader can take to the bank -- assuming he has not invested in genuine pressure testing equipment -- is that velocity = pressure and vice-versa. If your load is getting 300 fps more than the hottest load in the hottest manual, you can bet you've got too much pressure regardless of what your primers look like.
There's nothing wrong with looking at traditional pressure signs and using them as part of the experience. Pretending that these rough guesses are truly dependable predictors of pressure, though, is a mistake IMO. The only thing the handloader can take to the bank -- assuming he has not invested in genuine pressure testing equipment -- is that velocity = pressure and vice-versa. If your load is getting 300 fps more than the hottest load in the hottest manual, you can bet you've got too much pressure regardless of what your primers look like.
USSR
Member
Sorry, but if you have soft brass and it is showing pressure signs, then going beyond that (even if a reloading manual shows higher charge weights) is too much pressure for the components being used in that particular rifle. And hard brass DOES NOT resist flowing at high (but not extreme) pressure. I don't think you can find brass much harder than Lake City Match, and it will flow in the extractor hole when the upper (but not extreme) range of pressure is reached.
Don
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