Do you use a night stand gun around kids?

[Boats]

Before I had kids, I’d put a 1911 on my night stand and go to sleep knowing I had a weapon that I could fight my way to my shotgun with.

And while my kids weren’t walking around too much, I kept with that system, but moved the pistol into the drawer. However, every now and then, my then-three year old would come into our room in the middle of the night. I wasn't worried about shooting him, I became concerned that he is just too darn quiet. He doesn’t raise the hue and cry of the dogs, and he doesn’t call out. He just gets up and pads on in. Sometimes he crawls into bed, and others he’ll gently shake me or Mom and whisper something about monsters or whatever. We thought about closing the door, but we'd have to lock it, and we both disliked that option for reasons of the dogs, cats, and getting the door thumped on is even more startling than encountering my son.

Anyways, he started doing this about six months ago, so it prompted a discussion about the night stand gun. With the night sights on it, arguably it is something that could be toyed with in the dark. So I went and tried every quick access safe I could get a hand on. I settled on a Gun Vault.

I hate it. There is nothing wrong with the safe, it is more that the concept doesn’t work for me. Some nights I’d wake up, and just to see it work under “real world conditions†fumble with the safe for what seemed an eternity, only to realize I was blowing the sequence while coming to alert status. I don’t see how another product short of one with biometrics would do any better. I have looked into biometrics and I am always put off by the fact that they come with “emergency override keys.†The vault is now for locking up my CCW for when I encounter forbidden territory.

So I have employed a new night stand weapon and strategy altogether. I took my Mossberg out of the big safe and mounted it on the wall above the inside of the closet door with two cut down bicycle hooks so that I just pop it up and off and I am good to go.

A Ka-Bar Black Fighter now resides on the night stand, a proverbial black cat in a dark room which is still a very easy knife to index by touch and certainly more than lethal enough for anything short of certain bears.

Am I wrong to not be losing any sleep over the switch? It has been about four months now and not having the pistol on or in the night stand seems to bother me not at all. Sure it is conceivable that I might be taking a knife to a gun fight if said fight begins in my bedroom, but we certainly feel better about our now four year old wandering son who is not reliably “gun-proofed†yet, (not for lack of trying, but for his age), and the shotgun, a much more potent weapon, is only two strides, and no combination, away.

 

[pax]

Um. You worried about your four year old picking up a gun, so you replaced it with a big, sharp knife?

pax

 

[sm]

I am single, no kids of my own.

I have the Simplex Gun vault. I have used this system for years, not only for home, but vehicles and offices. Many times I am more concerned about adults, than kids.
I don't do battery anything, be it small gun vaults,or big safes.

Kids- I had a stepson once, and I have neices, nephews and friends with kids.

Education of the kids was my first rule. I was able to educate my stepson, the rest of my so called family...err...forget them.

With folks with kids, we did the Eddie Eagle , and educated. Usually take a .22 short and shoot a can of soda...kid realizes that itty bitty ctg is dangerous and they inspect the can. Shaken, not stirred, really warm aids this visual lesson.

I do have another "vault" of sorts that uses a key. I don't choose to reveal on the internet as to what it is tho'.

I kept my gun on my side and the wife at the time had hers on her side. We locked our door.

Folks with younger kids - yes they need thier parents at night.

I prefer the firearm on person at all times around kids at home. You have to take a shower, use a lock box, bathroom door locks do find a way of getting opened,especially if more than one access.

Got a sick kid and up all night, get dressed, then put on the gun. If an emergency comes up ( high fever) you are ready to roll. Only delay is the taking off to enter ER,that is where having a vault in vehicle is good.

Educate the kids. I am of the opinion BGs will use the kids or eldery in a family - to their advantage if can.

"They will have guns locked up and put away..."

I trump the odds in my favor is all.

Currently, many nights I sleep in the living room in a chair dressed and armed. Some stuff going on in the area and well...I like the odds on my side, element of surprise too.

 

[Guns_and_Labs]

I find the Gun Vault works fine for me. Of course, I do rely on the dog to give me a few seconds warning...but it takes me longer to get my eyes to open than it does to work the sequence on the Gun Vault.

What's wrong with the biometrics ones, though? I'm not sure I understand your objection.

 

[Old Fuff]

Your problems are going to get worse as the boy gets older, until he is old enough to understand what your are trying to teach him about gun safety and be able to retain it.

I don't know if I like the knife idea - he could get into trouble with that too. Possibly you might consider a semi-automatic pistol that had a magazine disconect safety (Browning, S&W, etc.) where you left the chamber loaded but the magazine out of the pistol. In addition you could leave the hammer down on a S&W with the safety on. That would require flipping the safety off and pulling the trigger double-action. Normally I don't like this solution, but I think it might work for you.

Another option would be an unloaded double-action revolver with speed-loaders nearby - possibly above the bed where he couldn't get to them without going over you.

It is encouraging to see you are worried. Too many parents aren't.

 

[Boats]

Um. You worried about your four year old picking up a gun, so you replaced it with a big, sharp knife?

Yep, an aftermarket kydex sheathed one that a child would have momentary difficulty with and makes an audible snick releasing the blade. First, unlike the glowing night sights, he's unlikely to see it as our room is very dark at night. Second, a trip to the ER for a self-inflicted knife wound is explicable in a way a gun shot wound would never be. Third, he's unlikely to kill himself fooling around with a knife if it came to that. In fact, he is conceptually more knife than gun savvy because the knife is inherently simple to demonstrate compared to even a simple power demonsration of a gun.

For example, I cut up some old clothing with the Ka-Bar to demonstrate that it was sharp. I then cut up a watermelon. We cut many of his meals together with butter and steak knives, or occassionally something larger, like an RTAK on a pineapple. He gets it that knives cut things and to not use one without me.

I demonstrated my .357 Magnum on a watermelon and chunked it pretty good and violently. With his earplugs in and ears on for watching auto racing, he just thinks it is cool and doesn't quite make the connection that what is going on is dangerous and lethal. It is loud and cool and when is it his turn? The occasional TV "shootings" I can't seem to realistically bar, particularly the depictions of squirt guns or "laser" beams, don't help a bit. I can demonstrate a knife every evening at dinner.

Since the pistol was only ever intended to cover the time it took to get a real CQB weapon, I don't think I give up all that much making my "contact weapon" the same type countless Marines counted on to get them through the night in the Pacific and Korea. I do gain a good margin for error on the accidental death and dismemberment front though.

For those interested, my objection to biometrics is the very fact that those systems sport "emergency override keys" which would only be used in the event of a catastrophic failure of the input system.

 

[hso]

What's your alternative? Would you're family hold up under the horror of your child being shot by a gun you kept against some improbable intruder? You would have lost everything you thought you were trying to protect and almost at your own hands.

As to the knife. You're better off investing in even a simple alarm system than keeping it accessable. If you're concerned about your child getting to your handgun you should be concerned about him getting to the knife. I collect knives. I've probably got more than a hundred of them. They're in my office in a cabinet, up on high shelves and beyond the reach of anyone less than 5 feet in height. My 6 year old daughter even has a collection of custom knives, but it stays under glass and she has to get the key from me to unlock her display case. That is except for one knife that was in a tape sealed display for her to take to school and one of her "little friends" who has been taught not to touch any of my knives pealed the tape off and opened the case and cut herself, thankfully not badly enough to require stitches, in spite of her father, mother, my daughter and me showing her my knives and getting repeated promises to ask to see anything and assurances that she knew they were sharp and pointy and dangerous. And she's 6. Don't treat the knife any more lightly than the gun just because it's more difficult for him to kill himself or you by accident. If he pulls it and drops it point first on his foot you could be looking at kissing his future star athlete status goodby.

 

[goalie]

The mechanical quick-access handgun lock-boxes are, IMO, much better than the electronic ones.

My box with the Simplex buttons on it has worked for me for many years now.

This is the type, although mine is a different model:

http://lock-depot.com/scripts/prodview.asp?idProduct=232

 

[Arc-Lite]

Boats...tuff one for a good workable answer.... between the mattress and box springs maybe, in at bed time out at dawn... carry on bag, with snap and zipper, bag hooked to the bed itself... on top of something near the bed.... much taller then your son... or a 1911, mag in, or out, slide back...point being, out of battery.

 

[Boats]

I tried one of those mechanical touch safes in the shop. What doesn't work so well is me, not the safes. I am always a little bit groggy when waking up except for when adrenaline hits my system. If adrenaline is going to make me alert enough to take two or so seconds to get a touch safe open and present a pistol, it will make me alert enough to retrieve my shotgun in those same two or so seconds and slide off the tang safety.

 

[anapex]

Yes. Israeli style in the holster on the nightstand. My boys are 3 and 4, they can barely push the magazine release button with help let alone pull the slide back to chamber a round. Once they start being able to do that it'll spend more time in the GunVault. Teaching them about gun safety is one thing but giving strict consequences for breaking your rules about them is another. A few test cases where you have to you "The Voice" is usually enough at the younger ages.

 

[dave3006]

If you are not awake enough to get your gun out of a safe, you are not awake enough to have one in your hands.

Visualize how you will feel and the pain he will suffer if he gets your gun and shoots himself.

I have kids. My guns are in a puss button safe. I have a baseball bat for emergencies that I can't get my gun.

 

[mtnbkr]

Push button safe. I don't even leave "unloaded" guns where my 20 month old daughter *might* get hold of them.

IMO, the likelyhood that your home will be invaded at night while you're asleep is lower than the likelyhood that your young child might get hold of an unsecured gun IMO. Until they're old enough to train effectively, I'd keep it locked up when not on your person (or in pieces on your workbench).

FWIW, I keep my CCW weapon in the same safe as well. That way, I build muscle memory punching in the code. Opening my safe is as automatic as opening a door.

Chris

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I hate it. There is nothing wrong with the safe, it is more that the concept doesn’t work for me. Some nights I’d wake up, and just to see it work under “real world conditions†fumble with the safe for what seemed an eternity, only to realize I was blowing the sequence while coming to alert status. I don’t see how another product short of one with biometrics would do any better. I have looked into biometrics and I am always put off by the fact that they come with “emergency override keys.†The vault is now for locking up my CCW for when I encounter forbidden territory.

If you have trouble getting the safe open, what kind of problems could you have with a loaded gun in your hand -- and the need to act clearly and responsibly?

I have a small gunsafe (buttons on the top) screwed to the floor in our bedroom, two steps from the bed. I could have put it closer -- but think the risk is greater closer than farther away -- just for the reason you cite.

Keeping the gun unloaded, with mag nearby might be a compromise, but I like it ready to go, when I'm finally ready to go... and I have no concerns about kids or unwanted visitors getting it.

 

[armoredman]

My solution with my 4 year old. He has to make commotion to crawl over us. Easy to get to, relatively secure, and invisable with covers/pillows in place.

 

[Guns_and_Labs]

Boats, I'm still not understanding your objection..

For those interested, my objection to biometrics is the very fact that those systems sport "emergency override keys" which would only be used in the event of a catastrophic failure of the input system.

All the electronic safes, biometric or not, have mechanical backups. On my Gun Vault, it's a necessary feature for those that forget to change the batteries.

Is your objection that the existence of a mechanical backup indicates to you a propensity to malfunction, and therefore unreliability?

If so, you might still look at the mechanical lockboxes, i.e. V Line. If you're awake enough to hold a gun, you ought to be awake enough to work the lock, I would think. I think you can even set them up for a single keystroke, so no "sequence". You can with Gun Vault.

 

[secamp32]

I wouldn't count on a 3 year old

not being able to get to a unlocked shotgun just because its mounted high up. I found 1 of my kids stacking boxes and chairs to reach something that was placed "Out of their reach" Every gun should be locked up with kids in the house. We don't want to see another "Gun tragedy" on the tv news.

The simplex lock boxes might be better for you because they are easier to reset if you make a mistake entering the combo. The gunvault is a PITA if you push the wrong button.

 

[Boats]

FWIW the shotgun is not chambered.

 

[Polishrifleman]

There is a strong fascination between Men and Fire . The same fascination is there between Men and guns . I would love to video tape the ways my 4yr old would try and get a gun off a high shelf or wall mount. I can see it now, tossing the end of a belt, stacking boxes, throwing shoes, using the shelves door knob and drawer pulls as a makeshift ladder . Luckily he knows better and the opportunity is not there.

Don't know your bedroom situation in the house but our sons room is across the hall from ours, about 10 feet from our bed. Our door is left open at night and his is closed, thus the door opening is a good wakeup.

It is a tough call, Good Luck I like armoredman's set up. Whatever you decide on, make sure there is a plan behind it. You sound very prepared and will run situationals keep that up and then the surprise will be on your side.

 

[Elmer]

No kiddees at my house, so my old trusty model 10 is in a holster attached to the back of nightstand, along with a Streamlight tac light. It can (and has) sit loaded for years with no attention, yet I know it's going to work if I need it. 6 rounds of Gold Dot's new 135 grain .38's should get me to the hidden 870 if I still need to keep shooting.

If someone should get past the alarm, etc, and break in during the day, and they find it, I'm out a gun I paid 35 dollars for.

 

[pax]

My solution to the problem is to keep my bedroom door locked at night, with my pistola sitting in its holster in an open lockbox. If the kids knock on the door or otherwise let us know they need attention, I reach over and lock the case before opening the bedroom door. If I leave the room for some other reason, I either take the gun with me or lock it up.

Had to explain to the dog that she'd have to sleep somewhere else, and the cats were mad at me for a week because of the closed door, but other than that it's worked well.

pax

 

[115grfmj]

I also have kids...

Two girls under 5yrs (3rd on the way). Kids are capable of just about anything
you are, meaning the only thing seperating the ability of their minds, and yours is experience. That being said think of what they can do, thru the prism
of what you might be able to do.

I keep my 686+ in a night stand safe in the top drawer of my dresser, I figure
even though it will take longer to employ it, and I might get shot going
for it. Its my job to sacrifice, and nothing is more horrible to a parent
than to lose a child, I'd rather be dead.

Also dicuss with your spouse, the possibility of her going for the gun while
you do a little delaying action.

 

[Swamprabbit]

Guns should be unavailable to small children. Period! When mine were small, I kept even my carry ones locked up in some type of cabinet when I was either away or asleep. Even today, only my carry gun is out of the safe and if I don't take it with me when I leave the house (for any reason) it, too, gets locked up.

As for bedside guns, I have a philosophy about that too. I don't know about you all but if I'm awaken at 2:00 AM on a night late in a week full of work, baseball, church, and yardwork, I'm not real clear minded for the first few moments. I would hate to have to make life/death decisions with a gun in my hand for those first few moments. For that reason, I don't keep a gun beside my bed but, rather, in a location across the room. This way, by the time I jump up and cross the room, I've started to wake up.

Glad you are taking your kid's safety first!!!

 

[Dave Markowitz]

armoredman,

For a second there I thought you had a holstered gun in your kid's crib.

Then I saw that's your headboard. Nice idea, there.

 

[pete f]

As i have listed in the past, my night guns are up high, on the inside of the closet door over the top of it, my kids never knew it was there till they were old enough to know where they were. A cruiser ready shotgun, and a 1911 gov;t. both over seven feet high, and both attached to a big magnet plate, it takes a firm pull to get them loose.

The Idea of a S&W auto with the mag under your pillow or a hi power the same way is a good idea, too. safe without the mag in to reset the disconnector, and yet fully good to go upon seating the magaazine.

As my kids are older now, I have a fobus holster screwed to the back of the nightstand with a commander sitting in it you can not see it unless you get on the bed and pull away the covers. If you are good about it, you can putone there every night as you go to sleep then put iot away as you get up.
but i like the high distance way better