Does 14.5 inch barrel M4 require Class 3?

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From a gun show, I bought a M4A3 with a 14.5'' DPMS barrel installed on it.

Does this gun require Class 3?

I found that my DPMS barrel looked identical to another barrel on gunbroker.com, and here is the disclaimer that alarmed me:

"Brand New M16/AR15 A3 14.5" M4 Wilson 1/2X28 Threaded Barrel,1X9 Twist,Carrier/Bolt Assembly,Charging Handle,New YHM Light Wt. 4 Rail Carbine Free Float Handguard with End Cap,NOW AVAILABLE WITH EITHER LIGHT WIEGHT OR STANDARD VENTED 4 RAIL HANDGUARDS...White RAS/RIS T-Marked Flat Top Receiver,Panther 5C2 Flash Hider, This is a Perfect Tactical Assembly for a Registered Short Barreled Rifle, Or Legal Preban Pistol Registered AR-15 Lower Receiver. This is not legal for use on your standard AR-15 Lower even though it will fit."

I have an old Sendra receiver, and does it qualify as a legal preban pistol registered AR-15 lower receiver?

See picture, I measured the barrel it is 16'', and so it is legal?

http://www.pbase.com/refweqe/inbox
 
If the barrel is really 14.5" the flash hider needs to be permanently attached (e.g., silver soldered) and long enough to bring it to 16". Otherwise you may have a short-barreled rifle on your hands.
 
how would I tell if the flash suppressor is silver smoldered? i.e. if I was stopped by Police during my trip to the range, and they found this gun, will they be able to distinguish a permanently mounted flashlight from a non-permanent mount?

Well the suppressor measured 2'', and assuming that the barrel is 14.5, and then it will be technically 16.5''... and where should I start measuring the barrel, from inside the receiver, or from outside of the receiver.
 
where should I start measuring the barrel
Click to expand...
From the breech face with the bolt closed. You would drop a piece of dowel down the barrel, mark it at the end of the barrel, remove the dowel and measure the distance to the mark.
 
how would I tell if the flash suppressor is silver smoldered? i.e. if I was stopped by Police during my trip to the range, and they found this gun, will they be able to distinguish a permanently mounted flashlight from a non-permanent mount?
Click to expand...

Well, it can't unscrew if it's soldered on. Flashhiders are hard to screw on anyway.

I can't imagine the cops measuring your barrel, though. Well, at least not in Utah.

You could pay the $200 tax and SBR your rifle, if legal in your area. I don't know if that'd be worth it for 1.5" less barrel, though.
 
So I measured from the breech surface, and it measured 16.7 inches, and I could not unscrew the flash suppressor at all with my hand or wrench, and hence I guess it is permanent...

wheeew.... I thought I had a hot item on my hand... :eek:
 
If the description is to be believed, then it is NOT OK. Your Sendra is not a "registered pistol lower" unless it was 4473'd as a pistol receiver and never had a stock.

This is a Perfect Tactical Assembly for a Registered Short Barreled Rifle, Or Legal Preban Pistol Registered AR-15 Lower Receiver. This is not legal for use on your standard AR-15 Lower even though it will fit."
Click to expand...
 
From what you've said, it sounds like a perm. Phantom.
FYI, you don't have a pistol lower if that's a factory stock, then again, I don't recall if Sendra put out ant non rifle rec's.


When you said you couldn't get it off with a wrench, you did have the barrel in a vise, right? You won't be able to loosen a correctly installed FH with just your hands...
 
Zak,

He wasn't reading the description of HIS barrel, but rather the description of another barrel from another manufacturer that looked similar.
 
Yeah, I grabbed the barrel by hand, and then tried to twist off the flash with a wrench, and it didn't even budge...

I have seen a couple of Frankenguns on various website, and most of them have the same DPMS barrel with permanent phantom flash affixed on it.

So I am pretty sure it is a permanent mount.

Plus I doubt the police will bring a wrench with him and tried to unscrew my flash in order to arrest me. :D

Thanks guys.
 
Woops, sorry! :eek:

Be advised that it may be extremely hard to remove a FH, which is still not considered "permanently mounted" by the ATF. Generally, that means 1100-degree F silver solder, or pinned and welded.
 
The cops may not try to unscrew the flash suppressor, the BATFE agent who comes after the Police sieze your weapon most assuredly will and he will employ every means available including a barrel vise, MAPP gas torch, and a special flash suppressor wrench.

I have used Phantom flash suppressors that are tack welded and pinned to complete legal 16" barrels for installation on non registered receivers.

If your upper was assembled by DPMS for installation on a non registered receiver it will include a flash hider that is long enough to make the barrel assembly a legal 16.25" and it will be welded and pinned too.

The blind pins will be visual as shiney spots on the back edges of the suppressor and the tack welds will be visable as well.
This technique allows anyone who wishes to inspect the barrel assembly for legality to do visually without the need to resort to tools that may damage the assembly and by pointing this out to any law enforcement officer who wishes to inspect the rifle you may also avoid an unneccessary seizure.
 
but seriously though, how often does that happen, i.e. police seizure and ATF test the flash suppressor with a torch...

Plus if it is silver soldered, won't it damage the rifle if the ATF tried to torch it... if so, where are our rights?
 
Here is something else you can't just walk into a gun show/gun store and accidentally purchase a SBR. The seller is not going to sell a SBR or Class III item without you presenting paperwork that proves that you can purchase it.
 
MAPP gas won't damage the rifle muzzle but it will melt silver solder, commercial plumbing solder, and any of the chemical adhesives.
MAPP gas does not produce a hot enough flame to break a properly applied weld bead.

How often do they conduct these tests?
I could not tell you because that information is not a matter of public record unless the test results in an arrest.

As for rights,,,,as long as the weapon in question is legal to own in your state you are entitled to all rights and priviledges.
If the weapon in question is deemed to be of an illegal nature, you have the right to have the weapon seized and you have the right to go to jail.
 
Here is something else you can't just walk into a gun show/gun store and accidentally purchase a SBR.
Click to expand...
What if you bought an AR-15 lower from Vendor A and a short-barreled AR-15 upper (not knowing any better) from Vendor B?
 
What if you bought an AR-15 lower from Vendor A and a short-barreled AR-15 upper (not knowing any better) from Vendor B?
Click to expand...

I've yet to hear of a manufacturer that does not provide information regarding special LE/NFA rules that apply to such products.

i.e. if I was stopped by Police during my trip to the range, and they found this gun, will they be able to distinguish a permanently mounted flashlight from a non-permanent mount?
Click to expand...

Most LEO's don't know f*&#-all about gun laws. They make the decision on legal/illegal gun on appearance in many cases, and it must be fought out later in court. This is not intended to bash LEO's, but most of them have only a slightly better knowledge of firearms and applicable laws than the average sheeple, much of it compiled from the same sources (media/hollywood).
 
 
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