Does Anyone Else Think That Social Media is Going to Bite This Young Man?

[Jeff White]

Don't know the details of this case. If the kid shot those guys at close range after they chased him to his car, he might have a claim of self defense.

The UK Daily Mail along with a lot of other media outlets is known to go right to social media to lift photos from the accounts of people involved.

Apparently this young man was very proud of his shooting activities, just like many of us are. But how do you think prospective jurors are going to view the young man? To most of us, they look like photos of any other hobby. To the non-shooting public they may give a different impression that's not so positive.

http://dailym.ai/1OrUTlD

I don't use any social media but THR. But if I did, I doubt I would post pictures like these.

Don't take this the wrong way, there is nothing wrong with the photos, except for how they might sway the jury pool.

 

[BLB68]

I think he's going to be hard pressed to explain how he had time to get into his vehicle, retrieve the weapon and fire it, but didn't have the time to simply drive away.

I'm not sure what the rules of evidence are in regards to the social media pictures. If they come into evidence, they're certainly going to cast a bad light on his decision to shoot vs. driving away. It may also be hard to find jury candidates who haven't seen them before the trial, so they're still a potential liability.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Don't know the details of this case. If the kid shot those guys at close range after they chased him to his car, he might have a claim of self defense.
.....

Apparently this young man was very proud of his shooting activities, just like many of us are. But how do you think prospective jurors are going to view the young man? To most of us, they look like photos of any other hobby....

We really don't know enough to do anything other than guess. How, or even whether, things like photos or statements posted on social media could be effectively used by a prosector will be very context dependent, i. e., how the photos or statements relate to or reflect on issues raised in the case. For example, see this article headlined "Bay Area prosecutors increasingly using social media posts in criminal cases" from the 16 August 2013 edition of the Contra Costa Times:

PLEASANTON -- A teenage driver originally accused of vehicular manslaughter now faces a murder charge in the death of a bicyclist, partly because prosecutors say he bragged on Twitter about driving dangerously.

His case is part of a growing trend of social media posts being used as evidence against suspects, authorities said Friday.

....

As suspects feel compelled to post their misdeeds online for audiences to see, investigators have taken advantage, using the online quasi-confessions to bolster their cases, Bay Area prosecutors said.

In San Francisco, a cyclist in March fatally struck a 71-year-old pedestrian in a crosswalk after speeding through three red lights in the Castro District. Chris Bucchere, who eventually pleaded guilty to felony vehicular manslaughter, received a stiffer charge after he posted his explanation of the crash on a cycling group's website....

 

[Jeff White]

Maybe I'm just too cautious Frank, but I think that we are past the day where it's harmless to post pictures like those on social media.

That kind of thinking was probably brought on by the same mindset the PD had when they stopped recording qualification scores, just pass/fail. The explanation they gave us was it was supposed to help us in court if we were ever sued over a shooting.

When I started they wanted everyone to wear their qualification badge on their uniform as a way of discouraging people from resisting because we presented a more professional and competent image.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Maybe I'm just too cautious Frank, but I think that we are past the day where it's harmless to post pictures like those on social media....

Caution is always good, and I'm not saying that those pictures couldn't become a problem. They certainly won't help Mr. Jones. But we don't know enough to form any meaningful conclusions about exactly how much they could hurt him, and how they can hurt him.

So while we can be reasonable certain that those pictures won't be completely harmless, anything we might say about how they will hurt Mr. Jones is pretty speculative.

 

[BSA1]

Well not for me. I see a clean cut appropriately dressed smiling young man handling firearms in a safe manner. He does not have any tattoos showing, is not dressed as a urban commando and has the gun pointed in a safe direction with his finger off of the trigger.

Of course his comments he made on his facebook page could cause it to haunt him.

If anything it does reduce his chances for claiming the gun somehow discharged "accidently" although with three people being shot I don't see how he could use that argument anyway.

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

Makes you really, really, want to rethink the things you put out there. So many of us get kinda macho when we post things. I know I have a few pictures of myself and friends engaged in shooting activities at ranches or ranges. And the inevitable comments from the uneducated masses below these images. It makes me want to clean out my FB all together.

 

[yugorpk]

That guy is going to jail. Hs self defense plea got blow to pieces the moment he went back to his car for a weapon. He had the opportunity to leave and chose to go into a fight.

 

[Jeff White]

If the kid is going to jail or not isn't really the point of the thread, who knows what really happened? The point is, the media was quick to lift photos from his social media accounts, photos that might not show him in the best light in regards to a defensive shooting.

My point is, that we might want to think about how people not in the shooting community would view things after involvement in a defensive shooting before we post them on social media.

BSA1 said;

I see a clean cut appropriately dressed smiling young man handling firearms in a safe manner.

I doubt that's why the Daily Mail picked those photos off of his account. I could be wrong though.

 

[old lady new shooter]

If he really could have driven away then I think not having done so will be his downfall. But depending where in his vehicle the gun was and how close to him his pursuers were when he reached the car, maybe he could not have. I guess the details will come out in the trial.

Personally I'm not on facebook etc and would never post ANY photo of myself online.

Wondering whether you guys think posting photos of guns and/or targets here (not photos showing the poster even holding the firearm) is in the same category as the type of photos this young man posted on facebook.

 

[rondog]

IMO, "social media" in various forms is going to bite a LOT of people in a LOT of ways for a long time to come. I have a FB page too, but it only has a couple pics of my dogs on it and no comments to speak of. I can't even remember how to log in to it.....

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I can't view the link in your OP, Jeff, so I'll have to wait until I get off work.

Certainly, such things can be used to bias a jury. "Bias" being the key word, because they are supposed to cast their decisions based on evidence and what the laws say. And that's supposed to revolve around the specifics of the specific incident, with relevant additional details.

Any other links? I don't see enough information in your OP to google them on my own.

 

[ku4hx]

I've never been one to draw attention to myself. I detest having happy birthday attention at restaurants. But, that's just me.

Apparently, a lot of people just can't help eviscerating themselves on social media and I will never understand that. It's almost as if they believe the fact they divulge information actually justifies some action.

In my state, if you truly fear for your life, and have no way out, you may take deadly action. But if you have a means to escape, you'd better try that first. If you don't, you start getting into the fringes of assassination territory.

 

[Girodin]

I don't think the pictures are going to play much if any role in the criminal prosecution. I'm not even sure they alone are relevant when there is no dispute about who the shooter was and what he used. Relevance is a pretty low bar, but I'm not sure any of those would even meet it.

If he had postings about use of force that might be used.

As others have noted, the case is going to come down to the threat he was facing and whether his use of force was reasonable. That issue is going to turn much much more on the statements of those present than on some pictures of the kid holding a gun.

Now how those pictures might be used by the media is a different issue.

What this case is a good example of and would be better used to discuss is the flawed logic of some people who keep a "trunk gun" etc. there may be other reasons to keep one but the idea you are going to run to your car retrieve a weapon and use it in self defense almost per se begs the question why you didn't just leave and whether the use I for e was justified. We can think of hypotheticals where it would be but it's often going to be questionable.

 

[Bobson]

Pretty safe to say yes, social media will bite him - without even reading the details of the situation. Social media is great for staying in touch with friends you rarely see, but other than that, it's almost always a detriment in daily life.

There's a reason we have families composed of a couple and a few children: it's ideal. Humans need privacy. Too many people these days seem to believe it's perfectly okay for every Tom, Dick, and Harry to know everything that happens in your day-to-day life. Nothing natural or beneficial about it.

 

[boom boom]

It is a bit harder to get such information in front of a trial jury than popularly assumed-- Much of it is covered in jurisdictions that use the Federal Rules as a basis under rule 404 -character evidence used to show conformity therewith. https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_404

But, given that a self defense charge is an affirmative defense, such postings necessarily limit defense strategies because of the potential to use this information to rebut. Example: Johnny claiming self defense on the stand testifies as does his trainer that he is a prudent and cautious individual. State brings up in rebuttal that Johnny has postings on social media that have pictures of him violating gun safety rules. Johnny claims to be peaceable but State introduces social media that has Johnny threatening individuals etc.

But, a grand jury and prosecutor can and do use such information to decide whether to charge someone so be careful how you present yourself to others whether online or in-person.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I know I have a few pictures of myself and friends engaged in shooting activities at ranches or ranges. And the inevitable comments from the uneducated masses below these images. It makes me want to clean out my FB all together.

I have several pictures like that too, but I don't have any of the comments from antis under them. Because I can choose who I'm friends with on FB, and I choose not to be friends with idiots.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

He made his life a lot harder, IMO they will take that information and hammer him with it.

 

[coloradokevin]

I think the photos will potentially lose him ground in the court of public opinion, but I doubt they'll have much role in the criminal case (where information fed to the jury is obviously more limited in scope).

I really don't see anything wrong with those photos, but I agree that an anti-gun media can easily use those to portray him as a gun nut.

I'll admit that I'm a social media user myself. And, I also have a lot of pictures on social media. I really don't post anything on there that I would be embarrassed about if my grandmother saw it, and I kind of use that standard to gauge whether or not my posts are appropriate. I certainly have some strongly worded opinions, and sometimes post those, but I'm also careful to make sure that I don't fly off the handle too badly in my posts, either. Finally, I have all of my privacy settings set so that only the people on my friends list can see my posts… obviously that's no guarantee of privacy, but it sure cuts down on the number of junior reporters who could pick the low-hanging fruit just by cruising through my page from a Google search.

 

[Jim K]

The Daily Mail has made it its mission to prove the US is an evil country and that it must bring its gun laws into line with those of "civilized" countries (like the UK, where gang stabbings and beatings are so common that they are not even reported in the press).

Jim

 

[lilguy]

Gun ownership causes problems for the government. That's why we are unique in the world.
Knives, clubs, fists are easily controlled. Guns, not so much. You really have a hard time clamping down on an armed citizenry, that's what the left hates about our gun rights.

I don't do social media other than THR and SGW. It's used by employers and law enforcement all the time now.

 

[ChefJeff1]

I was a juror in a self defense shooting. The shooter retrieved a gun from his car but the attacker kept coming at him. He shot him once and the attacker went down but lived. The jury ruled self defense.

 

[X-Rap]

I think it's to early to know the depth in which our use of social media will affect us in the future.
I've been saying for years that we expose ourselves to many legal and criminal elements with our photos and comments.
This young man at the very least exposed himself as a gun aficionado in the eyes of the public.

 

[Jackal]

He should've left when he could and reported the assault to the police. Going back to your vehicle for a gun was a very bad judgement call. His pics make him out to be a responsible youth.

 

[sfed]

I have not used or subscribed to social media such as Facebook or Twitter for the simple reason of I don`t have time for that stuff. I only text a few times a week and that is to my daughter who in her job talks on the phone all day and wants nothing more to do with a telephone after work. Whatever you post online, on facebook or twitter can and will come back to bite you. Social media is both a curse and a blessing in some cases. In the case of missing children I have seen and heard of it doing good, in a self defense case it could be the rope that hangs you.