WonderNine
member
that's subsonic at about 1100 fps? Looking for something heavy 250gr. to 300gr. or so at about 1,100 fps.
Does anyone make a heavy .45LC load...
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J Miller
Member
WonderNine,
I have read several times on various forums, that Buffalo Bore is aledgedly going to produce such a load. However, I haven't read any real reports about it being on the market yet.
At one time I did go to the B.B. site, and no such load was listed.
It would be nice if someone would produce a middle of the road load for those of us that want more than the old standard loads, but less than the elephant loads.
People like us. I don't think we are the only two that want these loads, are we?
Joe
I have read several times on various forums, that Buffalo Bore is aledgedly going to produce such a load. However, I haven't read any real reports about it being on the market yet.
At one time I did go to the B.B. site, and no such load was listed.
It would be nice if someone would produce a middle of the road load for those of us that want more than the old standard loads, but less than the elephant loads.
People like us. I don't think we are the only two that want these loads, are we?
Joe
Jim March
Member
I think Cor-Bon already has something like that in their hunting lineup...
http://mysite.elixirlabs.com/index.php?uid=12665&page=1605
Hmmm, sorta, they have a 335 @ 1,050...
Bufallo Bore's rumored project will involve a 260 @ 1,000...the stated goal is to have something to make maximum hunting/woods defense use out of NON-Rugers, including various SAA clones and S&W DAs. These loads will be safe in anything this side of a break-top (do not use in Italian Shofield clones in 45LC, fr'instance).
http://mysite.elixirlabs.com/index.php?uid=12665&page=1605
Hmmm, sorta, they have a 335 @ 1,050...
Bufallo Bore's rumored project will involve a 260 @ 1,000...the stated goal is to have something to make maximum hunting/woods defense use out of NON-Rugers, including various SAA clones and S&W DAs. These loads will be safe in anything this side of a break-top (do not use in Italian Shofield clones in 45LC, fr'instance).
Check out Georgia Arms. They have a 260grn JHP.
http://www.georgia-arms.com/pistol.htm
http://www.georgia-arms.com/pistol.htm
Corbon claims to have developed their hunting loads in a M25 Smith and that they are all safe in the S&W guns. If true that means they are relatively low pressure and nowhere near the " Ruger only" stuff.
If 335 grains hardcast at 1050 fps won't do what you need you obviously need a rifle because 1300 is not going to be any better IMO unless just measuring cranks with buddies on the range.
If 335 grains hardcast at 1050 fps won't do what you need you obviously need a rifle because 1300 is not going to be any better IMO unless just measuring cranks with buddies on the range.
Check these loads: http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp
310 grain bullet @ 1325 ft/sec
330 grain bullet @ 1385 ft/sec (1400 ftlbs)
310 grain bullet @ 1325 ft/sec
330 grain bullet @ 1385 ft/sec (1400 ftlbs)
Dennis - Those are for 44 Magnum which, along with the 45-70, is Randy Garrett's specialty. He has already been begged for some hefty 45 Colt loads, but nothing yet.
Mal H: Definitely a senile moment on my part. I shoot .44 Magnum and not .45 Colt, but that's no excuse! Sorry, folks!
Now that I'm focused on the .45 Colt instead of the .44 Magnum, what's wrong with the ammo being sold on the Buffalo Bore site?
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#45colt
Dennis
Now that I'm focused on the .45 Colt instead of the .44 Magnum, what's wrong with the ammo being sold on the Buffalo Bore site?
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#45colt
Dennis
Be sure to check out Black Hills ammo. Their cowboy load's sound like they will fit your bill nicely!! Click onto the lionk below.
http://www.black-hills.com/cowboyammo.htm
http://www.black-hills.com/cowboyammo.htm
James Bondrock
Member
"Cowboy" loads, per SASS rules, are limited to 1000 fps maximum, and most of them are loaded well under that, there being no "power factor" in cowboy shooting.
Smoke Rizen
Member
Heavy 45L.C.
Depends on what You consider to be heavy? I load a fishing load for Alaska That uses a Cast Performance Heat Treated 335gr. WFNGC hard lead with 21.8 grs. 110 powder. 1250fps. which I consider a heavy load. My Rugers love it! I wouldn't load it for anything but the Rugers or T.C Contenders. I load CAS loads with a 250 LFN all lead with 4.9grs. Clays at 925fps. 5.4grs. will approach 1100 but with the bullets I shoot I get more leading over 1000fps. Buffalo Bore makes a 300gr.PSP item #BB3D that's rated at 1,200fps. and a 325gr. LBT-LFN rated at 1,325fps. Both are available from Cabela's. S.R.
Depends on what You consider to be heavy? I load a fishing load for Alaska That uses a Cast Performance Heat Treated 335gr. WFNGC hard lead with 21.8 grs. 110 powder. 1250fps. which I consider a heavy load. My Rugers love it! I wouldn't load it for anything but the Rugers or T.C Contenders. I load CAS loads with a 250 LFN all lead with 4.9grs. Clays at 925fps. 5.4grs. will approach 1100 but with the bullets I shoot I get more leading over 1000fps. Buffalo Bore makes a 300gr.PSP item #BB3D that's rated at 1,200fps. and a 325gr. LBT-LFN rated at 1,325fps. Both are available from Cabela's. S.R.
WonderNine
member
I'm interested in subsonic (but powerful) self defense loads for a Ruger Blackhawk .45. I'm thinking 300gr. or more @ 1100 fps out of a 5.5" barrel.
I don't care about hunting loads, there's a boatload of that stuff out there.
Yes, exactly! And subsonic, easier on the eardrums...so it pretty much has to be a minimum of 250gr. @ 1100fps to be medium powered IMO. I'd prefer 300gr. and heavier though.
I've thought about this before, too.
A 300 grain bullet at between 900 and 1,000 fps would be just fine, with maybe a 260 JHP at 1050 fps.
John
edit- hey, waitaminute! You said self-defense loads. You mean against people? Are they wearing body armor, or do they just grow them really, REALLY "big 'n tall" where you are? A self defense load from a sidearm should be controllable enough for a quick second (3rd, 4th, 5th, etc, as necessary) shot. Sidearms are, by their nature, underpowered, so don't expect one round to do the job. (The only exceptions to this rule are so heavy and cumbersome that one would do better to use a should arm, at any rate.) Aside from that, the extra power you can inject from a really heavy load from something like a .44 Magnum can only be used with a relatively fragile (usually lightweight) bullet, to rapidly expand and probably fragment. An example of this could be a well-designed .44 185-grain JHP approaching rifle velocities. If you just drive a tough bullet a few hundred FPS faster, all you're doing, is giving the bullet more penetration to use on the next thing it hits...may it not be an innocent. If you're planning a genuine self defense load-and rolling your own- at a minimum with something like this, you should do penetration testing in water. If you're using a heavy lead bullet, I think you'll find that "more than adequate" penetration out to 50 meters is achieved with much less velocity than your current goal. (Again, if you're planning on engaging kevlar-garbed goblins or men with chests 25" deep, ignore all but my first two sentences.)
A 300 grain bullet at between 900 and 1,000 fps would be just fine, with maybe a 260 JHP at 1050 fps.
John
edit- hey, waitaminute! You said self-defense loads. You mean against people? Are they wearing body armor, or do they just grow them really, REALLY "big 'n tall" where you are? A self defense load from a sidearm should be controllable enough for a quick second (3rd, 4th, 5th, etc, as necessary) shot. Sidearms are, by their nature, underpowered, so don't expect one round to do the job. (The only exceptions to this rule are so heavy and cumbersome that one would do better to use a should arm, at any rate.) Aside from that, the extra power you can inject from a really heavy load from something like a .44 Magnum can only be used with a relatively fragile (usually lightweight) bullet, to rapidly expand and probably fragment. An example of this could be a well-designed .44 185-grain JHP approaching rifle velocities. If you just drive a tough bullet a few hundred FPS faster, all you're doing, is giving the bullet more penetration to use on the next thing it hits...may it not be an innocent. If you're planning a genuine self defense load-and rolling your own- at a minimum with something like this, you should do penetration testing in water. If you're using a heavy lead bullet, I think you'll find that "more than adequate" penetration out to 50 meters is achieved with much less velocity than your current goal. (Again, if you're planning on engaging kevlar-garbed goblins or men with chests 25" deep, ignore all but my first two sentences.)
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Jim March
Member
The best self defense loads in 45LC involve 200 - 230grainers @ 900 - 1,100fps.
You need enough velocity to get expansion on a JHP. The Gold Dot 230 (same projectile as their ACP loading) works great at speeds of around 900, and will do OK as slow as 825 - 850, and holds together as fast as 1,100+. Cor-Bon's 200 at 1,100fps from a 4" tube is probably the fastest defense load.
These critters will allow follow-up shots. A 300 @ 1,000+ won't unless you're packin' a 50+ oz gun. In hardcast, that 300 will blow through even somebody as fat as Oprah on a bad spell, and pose a severe threat to the whole geography in urban areas. That is just wrong, OK? For woods carry, sure.
Another thing: the Cor-Bon 45LC+P hunting loads will eat an S&W alive in as little as one box, depending on the variant. There's lots of reports of same. They'll blow a break-top up, and hurt most of the SAA patterns. S&W doesn't heat-treat their N-Frame 45LCs the same way they do their 44Mag, and that's a fact you're not going to get around. Ruger DOES do identical metallurgy for both calibers (ALL calibers, actually, you can re-chamber a 357 Ruger New Model, Redhawk or SRH cylinder out to 44Mag or 45LC+P).
You need enough velocity to get expansion on a JHP. The Gold Dot 230 (same projectile as their ACP loading) works great at speeds of around 900, and will do OK as slow as 825 - 850, and holds together as fast as 1,100+. Cor-Bon's 200 at 1,100fps from a 4" tube is probably the fastest defense load.
These critters will allow follow-up shots. A 300 @ 1,000+ won't unless you're packin' a 50+ oz gun. In hardcast, that 300 will blow through even somebody as fat as Oprah on a bad spell, and pose a severe threat to the whole geography in urban areas. That is just wrong, OK? For woods carry, sure.
Another thing: the Cor-Bon 45LC+P hunting loads will eat an S&W alive in as little as one box, depending on the variant. There's lots of reports of same. They'll blow a break-top up, and hurt most of the SAA patterns. S&W doesn't heat-treat their N-Frame 45LCs the same way they do their 44Mag, and that's a fact you're not going to get around. Ruger DOES do identical metallurgy for both calibers (ALL calibers, actually, you can re-chamber a 357 Ruger New Model, Redhawk or SRH cylinder out to 44Mag or 45LC+P).
WonderNine
member
Jim..........I said RUGER. Not Smith. I have no intention of shooting anything over 600ft/lbs. out of a Smith.
JShirly, if a .45 ACP can expand at 750fps, then I'm sure a .45LC should have no problem expanding at 1,100fps.
But I'm not really interested in expansion with .45LC anyways, as far as I'm concerned it's already expanded enough and I want penetration.
Looking for alot of bang without the noise report. I can handle the recoil.
If the best that is offered is a 200gr-230gr. at 1,100 as you claim, then I might as well go .45ACP or even 9mm....
Looking for a stout subsonic .45LC load with alot of thump.
JShirly, if a .45 ACP can expand at 750fps, then I'm sure a .45LC should have no problem expanding at 1,100fps.
But I'm not really interested in expansion with .45LC anyways, as far as I'm concerned it's already expanded enough and I want penetration.
Looking for alot of bang without the noise report. I can handle the recoil.
If the best that is offered is a 200gr-230gr. at 1,100 as you claim, then I might as well go .45ACP or even 9mm....
Looking for a stout subsonic .45LC load with alot of thump.
Short of handloading... It would seem your closest bet would be Georgia Arms 260 grain JHP... I emailed them and they said their test gun is a Ruger SA 4 5/8"revolver... Allowing for 50fps per inch your gun 5.5 would launch that bullet at approx. 900fps... that's some serious power! Taylor Knock Out of 15... In comparison... a 158 grain .357 @ 1500fps = 12 or a 40 caliber 200 grain bullet @ 1200fps = 14... This round when properly placed as well as the aforementioned rounds should be more than adequate for any defensive scenario where the intended perp isn't wearing kevlar and even if with kevlar on I would imagine it would knock the wind out of their sails!
.45 Colt Personal Defense Load
Steve,
The Cor-Bon is a fine .45 Colt defensive round; however, after considerable thought and investigation, I favor Georgia Arms 200 grain, 1100 FPS, Gold Dot loads. These are standard pressure (not +P) rounds and they are Gold Dots. The last batch of non +P .45 Colt Cor-Bons I purchased (also 1100 FPS) were, I believe, Sierras; I prefer the Gold Dot.
Best regards and happy holidays -- Roy
Steve,
The Cor-Bon is a fine .45 Colt defensive round; however, after considerable thought and investigation, I favor Georgia Arms 200 grain, 1100 FPS, Gold Dot loads. These are standard pressure (not +P) rounds and they are Gold Dots. The last batch of non +P .45 Colt Cor-Bons I purchased (also 1100 FPS) were, I believe, Sierras; I prefer the Gold Dot.
Best regards and happy holidays -- Roy
For comparison, a standard pressure .45 ACP FMJ will penetrate 26" of gelatin. This is a 230 grain bullet idling along. Heavier+faster will probably equal more penetration. If this is a woods bullet, that's one thing, but SD? Please consider carefully.
John
WheelMan
Member
I haven't done any experiments to back this up but I'm a bit skeptical about that subsonic rounds are any queiter than supersonic. Signifigantly at least. I think the vast majority of sound you hear is the rapidly expanding gases from combustion, and if you load a 300 grain bullet up to 1000 fps you're going to hear a whole lot of expanding gases, "sonic-boom" or not
Smoke Rizen
Member
Heavy .45 L.C.
When I was in Viet Nam We did a little experiment with a Flak Jacket. We were wondering what they would stop. With a folding chair to hang it on, We fired a Mil. Round of .45 ACP, a Mil. Round of .30 Carbine, and a . Mil. Round of 5.56mm. The 5.56 went cleanly through both front and back of the jacket. The .30 went 1/2 way through the front, and stuck. The .45 went half way through the front and carried the jactet, and the chair about 3'. I used to load a S D load that was just a .38 140gr.( if My memory is right) jacketed point loaded backward. I used a light load and worked up. Not a good idea. I never had any problem,probably just not good though. My point being, that became My test for a S D load. only now I use a cut log 8" dia. about 2' long. I think the best load on that log is the one that throws it farther. A heavy bullet, moving at moderate speed ,or a reloadable bowling ball. (no Flak jackets or folding chairs were killed in these exercises) S.R.
When I was in Viet Nam We did a little experiment with a Flak Jacket. We were wondering what they would stop. With a folding chair to hang it on, We fired a Mil. Round of .45 ACP, a Mil. Round of .30 Carbine, and a . Mil. Round of 5.56mm. The 5.56 went cleanly through both front and back of the jacket. The .30 went 1/2 way through the front, and stuck. The .45 went half way through the front and carried the jactet, and the chair about 3'. I used to load a S D load that was just a .38 140gr.( if My memory is right) jacketed point loaded backward. I used a light load and worked up. Not a good idea. I never had any problem,probably just not good though. My point being, that became My test for a S D load. only now I use a cut log 8" dia. about 2' long. I think the best load on that log is the one that throws it farther. A heavy bullet, moving at moderate speed ,or a reloadable bowling ball. (no Flak jackets or folding chairs were killed in these exercises) S.R.
That's definitely a good way to see "real-life" energy feedback, but what if the tissue of the person attacking you is not similar to wood? Energy is only one part of the equation; bullet construction counts, too.
Smoke Rizen
Member
Heavy .45
Agreed, Point was" knock-down", medium velocity, large dia., Medium bullet construction = Bowling ball-Baseball bat. I don't want it to go through,but I do want the point of impact to absorb as much energy as possible. I've shot Elk through the lungs with a .270 Spitzer 130gr. at 3000fps. and watched them walk or run away for 1/4 + miles, the same hit with a 45-70 450grs. at 1200fps. will knock an Elk off it's feet. They may not die any quicker but they're easier to find. S.R.
Agreed, Point was" knock-down", medium velocity, large dia., Medium bullet construction = Bowling ball-Baseball bat. I don't want it to go through,but I do want the point of impact to absorb as much energy as possible. I've shot Elk through the lungs with a .270 Spitzer 130gr. at 3000fps. and watched them walk or run away for 1/4 + miles, the same hit with a 45-70 450grs. at 1200fps. will knock an Elk off it's feet. They may not die any quicker but they're easier to find. S.R.
Brad Johnson
Member
Why are you limiting loads that you will be using to defend your life? Besides, in terms of sound pressure levels, the muzzle blast far outstrips the sonic wave from faster projectiles.
The mistaken belief that subsonic loads are somehow "hearing safe" is simply false. The muzzle blast from subsonic loads is still far beyond the sound pressure level required to cause immediate and permanent hearing loss. Besides, this is your LIFE we are talking about. After all, it is better to be a little deaf than a little dead.
When it comes to personal defense, buy your ammo for its terminal effects, not it's sonic qualities.
Brad
The mistaken belief that subsonic loads are somehow "hearing safe" is simply false. The muzzle blast from subsonic loads is still far beyond the sound pressure level required to cause immediate and permanent hearing loss. Besides, this is your LIFE we are talking about. After all, it is better to be a little deaf than a little dead.
When it comes to personal defense, buy your ammo for its terminal effects, not it's sonic qualities.
Brad
Baron Holbach4
Member
Gold Dot has a new .45LC 250 grain hollow point load. Hornady
makes a 255 grain cowboy load in the same caliber.
makes a 255 grain cowboy load in the same caliber.
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