Does getting your concealed carry permit promote our 2nd Amendment Rights?

[Bill_Rights]

Maybe naively, I think that the more law-abiding citizens who own guns and, even more so, get their concealed carry license, the better for our 2A rights. I think this because, the more people that government bureaucrats and politicians see taking advantage of their rights, the less likely they are to try to restrict or take away those rights. If for no other reasons, taking rights away from a large number of people becomes numerically/politically disadavantageous and logistically hopeless.

The BATFE background checks when you buy a gun and the additional training etc. requirements to get a concealed carry permit are, arguably, violations of the 2nd Amendment in and of themselves. The (dreaded) record keeping of these transactions the government does is not prohibited by the Constitution, but neither is it permitted, so it is probably unconstitutional as well. The gov't record keeping at least has one advantage to gun owners, as I mentioned, and that is that these records and databases can be easily querried by government bureaucrats and politicians to see how many of us there are. If there are a lot of us, that helps, IMO.

I say GO OUT AND APPLY FOR YOUR CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT soon!

 

[wvshooter]

There's no queston that the bigger the number when it comes to persons with permits the stronger it makes 2a rights. If you are a senator from state xyz and 20% of the adult population has a permit as opposed to 2% I'm sure that will influence your vote on gun issues.

 

[Straight Shooter]

I absolutely agree. I think everyone who can get a license should get one even if they don't plan to use it.

Politicians are paying attention to the numbers. Primarily background check applications but also CC license registrations.

 

[Rockwell1]

Getting the state's permission to exercise a right doesn't aid RKBA at all.

If you really want to aid RKBA ask your local & state reps to support permitless carry.

 

[WoofersInc]

I believe that the more of us that have them the more the people in Washington will have to pay attention.

 

[freakshow10mm]

No. Getting permission to perform a right does not support the right.

 

[BHP FAN]

Yes.If you don't exercise a right,they'll take it,if they think they can get away with it.

 

[freakshow10mm]

If we were exercising a right, we wouldn't need to ask permission, obtain a license or permit to exercise a right, not pay money. It has been taken away from us and converted into a privilege.

 

[crazy-mp]

I wanted to say YES, but I did choose no, just having a piece of paper or ID card that says you went through a safety class and know your state's concealed carry laws will not promote the 2A rights. All that is doing is showing the state you live in that no matter what gun law is passed you will follow it, and be willing to pay for a gun license.

If you have a CCW or want one, I am not knocking you go for it, but if you want to really show your support for the 2A, write a letter, donate to a pro-gun organization, get involved with politics or even see if there are any youth groups that need help with a shooting range, like the Boy Scouts, or your local church group.

 

[BigGuy52]

In Illinois, we don't have any type of CCW, but I'm hoping that in my lifetime it does pass.

And, I have written letters and sent e-mails to my State Representitives, only to recieve replies that are generic at best. Every cop I've talked to about CCW thinks we, the law abiding citizens should have a CCW, that it would aid in crime reduction.

The Daley machine in Cook County seems to control the way the state politicians think. I think it's Winnebago County that is in far western Illinois that just passed a limited CCW for residents of that county only.

Illinois government has been, and I'm sure still is one of the most corrupt in the USA.

 

[Straight Shooter]

I understand and agree with the sentiments against "asking permission" to exercise your rights, however, these arguments are mute because these systems are already in place. If one wants to CC they must have a license to do so or choose to break the law. I choose not to break the law.

Even if you choose not to carry, this is a way to use the current system in our favor. Like signing a petition, it simply shows our numbers.

If we can continue to convince politicians to vote in our favor it serves to strengthen the protection of our rights. One way to do this is to show them our strength in numbers.

And you never know, maybe someone who thought they would never carry just might change their mind. All the better

 

[freakshow10mm]

It shows them all these fools are paying for a right. Look at all the money we are getting. We should require more licensing and permits for rights.

A government's #1 goal is to raise revenue. If it has to stomp on your rights to do that, it will and the people who run it won't lose sleep over it.

 

[runrabbitrun]

If we were exercising a right, we wouldn't need to ask permission, obtain a license or permit to exercise a right, not pay money. It has been taken away from us and converted into a privilege.

Yep.... just more pick pocketing
of the people by our over reaching,
out of control government.
I'm sure they're loving the added bonus of the intel
provided voluntarily too.

 

[Bill_Rights]

Freakshow10mm and All,

While it doesn't matter much what I say, I did say

"requirements to get a concealed carry permit are, arguably, violations of the 2nd Amendment" AND "the record keeping of these transactions the government does is...probably unconstitutional"

I agree with you that we shouldn't have to jump through gov't hoops or pay a tax (basically) to exercise a right. We wouldn't tolerate that for voting, for ex.

HOWEVER, sad but true, we have been allowing politicians to literally infringe upon the Constitution since at least Pres F D Roosevelt. I won't go off topic, but it is a much, much bigger problem than just 2A. Mark Levin, lawyer and radio talk show host, has two books about this problem, "Men in Black" and "Liberty and Tyranny". Given that we are already in deep doodoo as far as compromising the Constitution, we'd better do what we can. The other side has already compromised on (Constitutional) principle (because they actually hate and do not believe in the Constitution); what do we do, and how do we maintain our principles?

 

[runrabbitrun]

what do we do, and how do we maintain our principles?

I'd suggest we keep doing what we have been doing.
Keep and bare arms...

I think the people sent (are sending) a
message loud and clear, with-out firing a shot.

I'm sure we have their attention at the
moment seeing the amount
of firearms/ammo purchased by 'We the People' in the last several months.

 

[stickhauler]

It Kind Of Troubles Me....

That some see those who obtain CCW's as "sheeple" who have buckled under and paid for the right to carry a firearm, as if those who are carrying haven't done squat to support the 2nd amendment. If that be the case, they're knocking a man who at least some revere, Ted Nugent. He has concealed carry licenses for both states he lives in, as well as his right to carry concealed as a police officer. And in my opinion, he likely does more to support 2nd amendment rights than any person posting here.

Most all concealed carry holders I know are also involved in several groups fighting for gun owners rights, as well as being politically active with their elected officials to demand they support gun owners in their voting on bills. And in my opinion, it's gaining traction, as legislators replaced in November 2008 were replaced by gun rights supporting legislators, otherwise you would never have seen a letter from better than 60 Democratic legislators to Holder telling him to leave guns alone.

 

[Dan Crocker]

Getting the state's permission to exercise a right doesn't aid RKBA at all.

Yeah, unfortunately that's what we are stuck with. Maybe if enough of us do it, we can bring it back to how it should be.

 

[ScotZ]

As far as I am concerned the 2nd Amendment is my CCW. I have my CCW from Ohio but it went againest everything I believe. Laws and restrictions about guns seem to only help criminals.

 

[BHP FAN]

If we don't do it,and carry anyway,we actually aid the enemy by adding to the ''gun crime'' statistics.If we jump through the stupid [possibly illegal] hoops,we add to the progun stats.

 

[rmmoore]

While I agree in principle that getting a permit is asking permission to exercise a right, if you live in a State where you have to get a permit, then it is what it is, for now. Absolutely work with your State Representatives and Senators to go permitless, but in the meantime, you DO represent a voting block, whether you think and/or realize it or not.

Consider this: During election cycles, politicians consider it a raging success if 50% of registered voters actually turnout to vote. Gun owners generally vote in the 70-80% margins. CCW holders "generally" tend to more active and vocal, voting in the 80-90% margins. The numbers are approximate, please don't ask for some political think-tank source, I don't have it handy. Anyway, given these "recognized" statistics, if you're a Congress-critter whose State has 10-15% of the population as permit holders, run the traps and see if you'd want to piss those people off.

Just use 10% as a nice round number and extrapolate the voting results using the low end figures. Let's say for example, your State has 1,000,000 people. So, using 10% as CCW's, you have 100,000 voters, of whom approximately 80,000 will vote. Now, of that same 1,000,000 voters, 50% of registered voters will vote, and let's say that through an ACORN style miracle, ALL 1,000,000 people are registered, meaning 500,000 will cast votes. If CCW holders ALONE are 80,000 of those 500,000, don't you think it would behoove the candidate to pay attention? That's not even considering the gun-owners who are NOT CCW holders. Think he/she MIGHT want to be attentive?

I understand this all theoretical, and I hope you do to. It's simply to make a point on numbers and the power of persuasion, even the PRESUMED perspective of power. WE have the power of influence. And if they don't listen, then USE it.

 

[stickhauler]

It's Important To Remember As Well...

You didn't hear candidates professing anti-gun leanings in 2008 at all, even Obama claimed to be a 2nd amendment supporter, to the extent his campaign did cold calls to voters in my area, with the phone bank people claiming he was supported by the NRA. Even Al Franken claimed to be a supporter of gun rights. These politicians are aware that gun owners are active in politics, they're also aware that polls show in excess of 75% OF Americans support civilian gun ownership. Granted, we're seeing bills introduced in Congress, by the usual anti-gun legislators, and seeing them going nowhere.

 

[Bill_Rights]

rmmoore,
Thanks for the calculation. Unfortunately, only about 2% of the population in most states are CC permit holders, in some states less than 1%. Sources: Alan Korwin, "The Virginia Gun Owners Guide", Bloomfield Press, Phoenix 2006 and Chris Bird, "The Concealed Handgun Manual", 5th edit., Privateer Publications, San Antonio 2008. (Korwin has a separate book for each/many other states; Bird's Chapter 13 has a good state-by-state summary of laws and stats.) Still, as othes noted, this is just the tip of the iceberg. But I would still like to see both the iceberg and its tip, proportionately, be bigger.

stickhauler, runrabbit and others: Good points!

Scotz, To whom is your autosignature quote attributed? (It's OK if it's you - you might be a poet and don't know it.)

 

[logical]

I never will understand the "No" answer here with the "permission to exercise a right" explanation.

In case you hadn't noticed, reasonable men have decided that there is still room under the 2nd to have some laws regarding the ownership and use of guns. If 51% of a states residents had a CCW...guess how often they would even think about screwing with CCW laws????????

 

[SCKimberFan]

Getting the state's permission to exercise a right doesn't aid RKBA at all.

No. Getting permission to perform a right does not support the right.

As far as I am concerned the 2nd Amendment is my CCW.

Concealed carry is NOT a right. The 2A does not address Concealed Carry. States have laws against concealed carry without a permit. If you are a Constitutionalist, the states have the authority to make their own laws. The 2A has NOT yet been incorporated in the eyes of the court.


Keep and bare arms...

You mean like Larry the Cable Guy?

 

[devildog66]

That's one more voter who's made a conscious decision to ID themselves as a supporter of self-defense.