Kyle2011
Member
I'm sure many of you have heard that releasing the slide on a pistol, primarily the 1911, into an empty chamber damages the gun itself. I wanted to know if that applies to rifles as well.
Does releasing the slide handle/bolt into an empty chamber damage the rifle?
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wally
Member
Not much of a rifle if it does. Many don't even have a last shot bolt hold open and if it does, its usually one of the least reliable features.
mljdeckard
Member
Is there a particular rifle you are wondering about?
Zerodefect
member
I try to avoid it. Thats alot of force hitting the cam pin on an AR.
No reason TO drop the bolt on an emty chamber, so I take my time with charging handle.
My FN PS90 has no hold open. So it drops the bolt carrier everytime I run out of ammo. But that rifle has less force and is simple. No bolt or cam pin. Just one big block slamming on the back of the barrel/reciever.
No reason TO drop the bolt on an emty chamber, so I take my time with charging handle.
My FN PS90 has no hold open. So it drops the bolt carrier everytime I run out of ammo. But that rifle has less force and is simple. No bolt or cam pin. Just one big block slamming on the back of the barrel/reciever.
Kyle2011
Member
M1a and mini 14
Maverick223
Member
Never had any problems with it on any rifle (and do it fairly often without even thinking about it)...or pistol for that matter.
Uncle Mike
Member
Don't do that.....why would you impart undo stress on your beloved toys, on a regular basis.
The slides are slowed a quite a bit when they strip a round out of the magazine, and the drag of the cartridge loading into the breech has a hand in it also....some manufacturers warn not to do this also, although I have not seen a warning of this type lately, but I haven't exactly been reading a bunch of operating manuals either!
Have you ever seen any of the IPSC, IDPA, 3-Gun, Steel Challenge or any other professional bunch of pistoleros doing that to their pistols?
Somebody will say they have, but of all the years of competition, I never seen it done intentionally.
I don't do it....pistol, revolver or rifle!
The slides are slowed a quite a bit when they strip a round out of the magazine, and the drag of the cartridge loading into the breech has a hand in it also....some manufacturers warn not to do this also, although I have not seen a warning of this type lately, but I haven't exactly been reading a bunch of operating manuals either!
Have you ever seen any of the IPSC, IDPA, 3-Gun, Steel Challenge or any other professional bunch of pistoleros doing that to their pistols?
Somebody will say they have, but of all the years of competition, I never seen it done intentionally.
I don't do it....pistol, revolver or rifle!
rskent
Member
Kyle
If it hurts your gun, you might want to think about a better gun.
I don’t know what kind of shooting you do. If you want to use an AR for shooting NRA highpower, you are going to be required to load a lot of rounds through the ejection port and dropping the bolt a lot. I have only been shooting highpower for a few years, but I have never heard of anyone wearing out a bolt or carrier by dropping the bolt. I am sure it has happened somewhere, but I have never heard of it.
As for the 1911, same thing. Unless your gun is over sprung or your barrel is not fit very well I believe you could drop the slide release till your thumb falls off and not hurt the gun.
I am probably going to take a little heat for my opinion, but there it is. I guess I am just a tools kind of guy. Use it till you use it up, then fix it up and keep using it.
Regards and welcome to the High Road
Steve
If it hurts your gun, you might want to think about a better gun.
I don’t know what kind of shooting you do. If you want to use an AR for shooting NRA highpower, you are going to be required to load a lot of rounds through the ejection port and dropping the bolt a lot. I have only been shooting highpower for a few years, but I have never heard of anyone wearing out a bolt or carrier by dropping the bolt. I am sure it has happened somewhere, but I have never heard of it.
As for the 1911, same thing. Unless your gun is over sprung or your barrel is not fit very well I believe you could drop the slide release till your thumb falls off and not hurt the gun.
I am probably going to take a little heat for my opinion, but there it is. I guess I am just a tools kind of guy. Use it till you use it up, then fix it up and keep using it.
Regards and welcome to the High Road
Steve
Maverick223 said:
Me too!! I've never heard of a problem associated with letting a bolt or slide slam forward on a pistol or a rifle with an empty chamber. I'm always open to modifying how or why I do something if there's a well-thought out, logical and reasonable alternative. This should be an interesting (and informative) thread.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
If I'm closing a rifle's bolt on an *empty* chamber, I always lower the bolt manually with the charging handle; ditto for pistols. I doubt letting it fly home now and then is going to break the firearm, but when there's no need to abuse the mechanism, I try not to.
I don't routinely bounce my car off the rev limiter, either, but have on occasion. Doing it every time I start the car would undoubtedly increase wear and tear, though.
I don't routinely bounce my car off the rev limiter, either, but have on occasion. Doing it every time I start the car would undoubtedly increase wear and tear, though.
This topic comes up from time to time.
Do what makes you happy. I personally don't think occasionally (how often does it happen?) dropping the bolt (or slide on a pistol) on an empty chamber seriously affects a good gun. In fact, I have an owner's manual that came with a new Colt Government Model in which dropping the slide is expressly described as the proper way to close the gun after unloading it.
Apparently Colt wasn't too concerned about the practice.
I have been doing this with my guns for 40+ years and so far I have not noticed any ill effects. But anyone who worries about it is free to avoid doing it.
Do what makes you happy. I personally don't think occasionally (how often does it happen?) dropping the bolt (or slide on a pistol) on an empty chamber seriously affects a good gun. In fact, I have an owner's manual that came with a new Colt Government Model in which dropping the slide is expressly described as the proper way to close the gun after unloading it.
Apparently Colt wasn't too concerned about the practice.
I have been doing this with my guns for 40+ years and so far I have not noticed any ill effects. But anyone who worries about it is free to avoid doing it.
It's required practice in the military, M9, M16, M4. Clearing the weapon happens daily with MP's on duty who are required to turn the weapon in at end of shift. Same for M16's, you store them on the rack after the armorer checks again they are clear and slams the bolt or slide home.
The reuse of chambered ammo over and over again as the first round loaded causes more problems.
The reuse of chambered ammo over and over again as the first round loaded causes more problems.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Tirod, do they usually use the bolt release or the charging handle? Just curious.
DMK
Member
I'm sure it's not required practice to carelessly slam the carrier or slide home. One can use the charging handle to let the carrier down easy or pull the slide back and ease it home.
If they care. I guess some folks just don't.
rodensouth
Member
My gunsmith showed me the slides on several rental pistols that had the notch for the release worn and rounded on it's load bearing surface. He said the slide or bolt slamming home is not the issue, it's the wear between the release and slide if the release is pressed under tension. He feels it is better to pull the slide and let er drop. Same would apply to using charging handle as opposed to bolt release.
W.E.G.
Member
I think the OP was asking about RIFLES.
Zach S
Member
It happens, but I generally dont do it.
My AK doesnt have a BHO, but I still ride the handle forward on an empty chamber. Habit I guess.
My AK doesnt have a BHO, but I still ride the handle forward on an empty chamber. Habit I guess.
That's how I look at it.
rodensouth
Member
W.E.G
Every post mentions rifle or bolt or bolt release. He references pistols in the OP.
Every post mentions rifle or bolt or bolt release. He references pistols in the OP.
ny32182
Member
It doesn't apply to any common pistol or rifle designed in the last hundred years or more, including any standard type 1911.
Yep... all the time. In fact the exact procedure at the end of an IDPA stage is to "show clear" (lock the slide back), "slide forward" (most aren't easing it)
"hammer down" (dry fire required... there is another case of "abuse" right there, according to some)Guns from top competitors there are sometimes seeing north of 50,000 LIVE rounds of ammo per year. What do you think does more "damage", 50k rounds, or a few non-firing-related slide drops?
I've got to say, every time I see someone talk about this, I figure their gun rarely sees the outside of a safe (and this is not coming from a high volume shooter)... or lets put it this way: If you are worried about "damage" from slide dropping or dry fire, you better not do those things. You also should not shoot it, holster it, clean it, touch it without a fresh pair of latex gloves each time, or expose it to direct sunlight.
Sport45
Member
When single loading my Garand I lower the bolt about half-way and then release it. I'll then give the charging handle a bump to make sure it's in battery.
I drop the bolt freely on my AR's when single loading (without magazine) and don't worry about the wear and tear. I do plan to get a single load device to put in a magazine that will make this operation easier and hold the bolt open after the shot.
I drop the bolt freely on my AR's when single loading (without magazine) and don't worry about the wear and tear. I do plan to get a single load device to put in a magazine that will make this operation easier and hold the bolt open after the shot.
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Zach S
Member
I disagree. 1911Tuner once posted about an experiment he did on this matter, and, no offense, but I'll take his word over yours when it comes to 1911s.
One more thing, how many pistols have you seen Todd Jarrett shoot? Lets be honest here, he's probably worn out more 1911s than I've owned. And I doubt he paid his sponsor several hundred bucks for any of them.
ny32182
Member
I'd like to see the experiment. If anyone can prove damage from dropping a slide, it will help me avoid purchasing said firearm...
I don't know Todd Jarrett and likely have not seen him shoot any pistols.
I don't know Todd Jarrett and likely have not seen him shoot any pistols.
Siggie
Member
Compared to the brute violence whilst shooting, releasing the Bolt empty is not going to be more harsh on your gun or Rifle. The Bolt locking is IMHO more for speedy mag changing and loading than anything else.
If you would ask about how we actually release a bolt on an empty gun, Well, despite the above I still guide it back gently
If you would ask about how we actually release a bolt on an empty gun, Well, despite the above I still guide it back gently
For 22 years in the Reserves, and daily at the end of shift when I was mobilized at Ft Benning, the procedure to close the bolt was to push the release button or lever and let the bolt or slide slam home carelessly with spring pressure. Soldiers are expressly taught do NOT ride the bolt home, that causes malfunctions. If you avoid the practice entirely, it won't be a lethal error under stress.
It's common to put every practice in a "life or death" context in the combat arms because it could be.
Soldiers don't care about cosmetic concerns with weapons. They are taught to do it by experienced professionals who were taught to do it by experienced professionals. The only place that seems to question it is the great big wide world where experienced professionals are held in little regard.
I was taught weapons handling at an interesting time when the Army was changing from the M14 to the M16 - and handled M1's as a learning device. They all had the bolt slammed home carelessly because that is what we were taught. I did the same with my HK, that is what the owner's manual indicated.
Please post pics of weapons damaged by this practice, and where the factory operation instructions prohibit it.
It's common to put every practice in a "life or death" context in the combat arms because it could be.
Soldiers don't care about cosmetic concerns with weapons. They are taught to do it by experienced professionals who were taught to do it by experienced professionals. The only place that seems to question it is the great big wide world where experienced professionals are held in little regard.
I was taught weapons handling at an interesting time when the Army was changing from the M14 to the M16 - and handled M1's as a learning device. They all had the bolt slammed home carelessly because that is what we were taught. I did the same with my HK, that is what the owner's manual indicated.
Please post pics of weapons damaged by this practice, and where the factory operation instructions prohibit it.
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