Does Steel Cased Ammo Cause More Gun Wear Than Brass Cased Ammo?

[grampajack]

I think the various coatings on steel-cased ammo are there to inhibit rust. I opened a sardine can of Chinese 7.62x39 some years ago and the steel cases had all been plated with what looked copper. (Worked fine in a Norinco SKS.)

It's dual purpose. Lubricity is definitely a consideration.

 

[stchman]

Here's an idea:

How about we discuss steel case vs. brass case on firearms that aren't an AR.

Contrary to popular belief, there are other firearms besides ARs.

 

[Sunray]

"...“hard” on the AR-15 parts..." Supposedly hard on extractors. However, the real issue with steel cased ammo, aside from it not be reloadable, that the quality. It's not loaded for great accuracy.

 

[444]

Here's an idea:

How about we discuss steel case vs. brass case on firearms that aren't an AR.

Contrary to popular belief, there are other firearms besides ARs.

If the firearm is made of steel, it will have the same issues or non-issues as an AR15.

 

[grampajack]

Here's an idea:

How about we discuss steel case vs. brass case on firearms that aren't an AR.

Contrary to popular belief, there are other firearms besides ARs.

This is what the OP asked:

I mentioned this to some friends I shoot with and one of them said that the steel cased ammo is “hard” on the AR-15 parts they come in contact with. Anyone with facts or well founded opinions about this?

If the OP had asked about using steel in his engraved, hand checkered, antique drilling; then obviously this would be a very different conversation.

 

[Ignition Override]

No extractors or anything else have needed replacing in my pair of SKS and five AKs. All were imported, have high-grade steel components, Not "commercial-grade", US-made AK products (i.e. I.O., new Century).

All of the ammo is steel-cased.

 

[TheVision]

... It's not loaded for great accuracy.

Hornady Steel Match

 

[boom boom]

Increasingly, indoor ranges and some outdoor around here have banned steel cased ammo. Much of this ammo has mild steel in the bullet jacket and some, particularly milsurp ammo, has a steel core. Some claim that steel jacketed bullets accelerate wear on the bullet traps, others that it is a fire hazard (especially indoors) by causing sparking (ignites unfired powder grains or other flammable material). Some include the steel casing sparking fires as well. I suspect the other reason is that ranges make money off of brass while steel probably has a net cost for ranges to pick up and dispose of. Elimination of cheaper alternatives to range ammo also probably plays a part as ranges depend on ancillary sales to make a profit. If I recall, steel cased ammo was used by the U.S. during the later stages of WWII for .45 ACP and .30 M1 Carbine. The Germans also used in 9mm and the 8mm Mauser.

For your entertainment, http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/06/26/lake-city-steel-cased-m193-economy-ammo-us-army-1967/ discusses an apparently Lake City project to create steel cased 5.56 ammo for the M-16 during the Vietnam era. Someone with more energy might want to dig up a report on that project.

 

[stchman]

"...“hard” on the AR-15 parts..." Supposedly hard on extractors. However, the real issue with steel cased ammo, aside from it not be reloadable, that the quality. It's not loaded for great accuracy.

I can get 1MOA with Wolf .223 in my Remington 700.

 

[Schwing]

Increasingly, indoor ranges and some outdoor around here have banned steel cased ammo. Much of this ammo has mild steel in the bullet jacket and some, particularly milsurp ammo, has a steel core. Some claim that steel jacketed bullets accelerate wear on the bullet traps, others that it is a fire hazard (especially indoors) by causing sparking (ignites unfired powder grains or other flammable material). Some include the steel casing sparking fires as well. I suspect the other reason is that ranges make money off of brass while steel probably has a net cost for ranges to pick up and dispose of. Elimination of cheaper alternatives to range ammo also probably plays a part as ranges depend on ancillary sales to make a profit. If I recall, steel cased ammo was used by the U.S. during the later stages of WWII for .45 ACP and .30 M1 Carbine. The Germans also used in 9mm and the 8mm Mauser.

For your entertainment, http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/06/26/lake-city-steel-cased-m193-economy-ammo-us-army-1967/ discusses an apparently Lake City project to create steel cased 5.56 ammo for the M-16 during the Vietnam era. Someone with more energy might want to dig up a report on that project.

My local indoor range recently banned steel cases. I talked to the owner about it and he admitted that it wasn't so much about steel core ammo problems on his back stop. They sort, clean and sell their range brass themselves and got sick of picking all of the steel cases out.

 

[stchman]

My local indoor range recently banned steel cases. I talked to the owner about it and he admitted that it wasn't so much about steel core ammo problems on his back stop. They sort, clean and sell their range brass themselves and got sick of picking all of the steel cases out.

You'll find this to be the overwhelming reason that ranges ban steel cased ammo. The range I go to doesn't care if you use steel case ammo.

 

[grampajack]

I wouldn't be surprised if the myths surrounding steel ammo all originated with gun ranges trying to squeeze another buck out of their customers. That's certainly where I hear them spouted more often than not. It destroys our backstops, we have to ban everything magnetic to prevent armor piercing ammo from sneaking in, it'll break your gun and cause it to spontaneously combust... Pure BS. First of all, legal steel core ammo isn't going to hurt their backstops, assuming their backstops are sufficient in the first place. US law requires that steel core ammo be a mild steel, and there are actually solid copper and brass bullets on the market that are harder than your average combloc ammo, and will readily pierce higher grades of steel, especially considering they're more common in high end big game cartridges.

It's also BS that they have to ban all magnetic ammo to prevent armor piercing rounds from sneaking through. Anything that's tungsten is non magnetic, and if there's any bullet that's going to damage their backstop that's it.

As for being a fire hazard, that's a new one. Copper bullets will spark when they hit something hard, but I've never heard of a fire being started by a bullet, any bullet, unless it was incendiary, which a magnet will not detect BTW. Plus I've never had my ammo inspected for tracers, or been told in any range, indoor or out, that tracers were banned. If fire is an actual concern for them then you would think they would be a bit more proactive about banning tracers.

And I don't care if it's indoor or out, if they're worried about fire then they need to clean the danged backstop!

My local indoor range recently banned steel cases. I talked to the owner about it and he admitted that it wasn't so much about steel core ammo problems on his back stop. They sort, clean and sell their range brass themselves and got sick of picking all of the steel cases out.

You should ask him if he's ever heard of a magnet.

Seriously, you think he would be more concerned with aluminum cased ammunition, which requires you pick it out by hand. And yet I've never been to a range where aluminum cased ammo was banned. In my experience if it passes the magnet test then it's always GTG. Funny how they know that steel is magnetic when inspecting your ammo, yet they suddenly forget this fact when sorting their brass. Of course I'm sure that they're plotting some excuse to ban aluminum as well.

 

[444]

I actually have seen a fire caused by a bullet. I don't know what kind of bullet it was, but it was nothing special. I went to an indoor shooting range with some people from work. A female coworker brought a Beretta 92, 9mm. I am sure the ammo was just ball ammo that she bought some place like Walmart.
She was on the right end of the range and a small fire broke out on the floor underneath her target where the range staff had swept up a pile of debris but never collected it in a dust pan for disposal. I would guess that there was a lot of unburnt powder in the pile.

We had to listen to a bunch of heckling from the employees of the store because we were firefighters and we made no effort to put out the fire and just kept on shooting. I explained to the guy that the fire was on a concrete floor inside of a building constructed of concrete block. The fire was isolated to that pile of debris which was not going to spread to anything else and it would burn itself out in a minute or two.

 

[grampajack]

I actually have seen a fire caused by a bullet. I don't know what kind of bullet it was, but it was nothing special. I went to an indoor shooting range with some people from work. A female coworker brought a Beretta 92, 9mm. I am sure the ammo was just ball ammo that she bought some place like Walmart.
She was on the right end of the range and a small fire broke out on the floor underneath her target where the range staff had swept up a pile of debris but never collected it in a dust pan for disposal. I would guess that there was a lot of unburnt powder in the pile.

We had to listen to a bunch of heckling from the employees of the store because we were firefighters and we made no effort to put out the fire and just kept on shooting. I explained to the guy that the fire was on a concrete floor inside of a building constructed of concrete block. The fire was isolated to that pile of debris which was not going to spread to anything else and it would burn itself out in a minute or two.

Nah, I think you should have immediately ran downrange to put out the fire.

Like I said, any bullet will generate healthy sparks when it strikes concrete, rock, or metal; and I've never seen anything that would suggest a steel bullet generates more sparks. I've seen surveillance footage where police are shooting it out with someone who has a combloc weapon, ostensibly with combloc ammo, and the sparks flying on both sides looked more or less equal.

Whatever the case, if there's a fire downrange, then it's their fault for not cleaning their backstop and letting flammable materials grow/pile up there. And banning steel ammo isn't going to reduce the risk of fire, especially if they're not taking major precautions to weed out all the tracers and incendiary ammo.

 

[hdwhit]

Saw-Bones wrote:
...I mentioned this to some friends I shoot with and one of them said that the steel cased ammo is “hard” on the AR-15 parts they come in contact with.

Steel on Steel contact inevitably causes more wear on the steel of the gun than Brass on Steel contact. This applies to any rifle, not just AR-15s. That is not, however, the applicable question. I think the things you should be asking are:

1. Is the additional wear from steel case ammunition in comparison with brass case ammunition enough to justify choosing one over the other?
2. Since steel cased ammunition tends to be less expensive than brass case ammunition, are other components (bullet, powder, primer) being chosen primarily in the basis of cost and so may sacrifice other performance considerations like dimensional consistency, velocity, or longevity?

At the risk of being accused of appropriating Buckaroo Banzai, my opinion is "No on One, Yes on Two".