Does the .380 really have enough stopping power?

[Steve 48]

I have a P3AT and feel protected as long as it is a close encounter. My M60 in 357 is much more assuring!!!

 

[gmh1013]

I was shooting my Bersa Today....and yes with Gold dot 90 grain H-P or a 95 grain slug.
Its not a .357 125 grain full power mag but I never feel out-gunned with one clip of 95gr
round nose slug and one of 90 H-P's.
I would NOT want to be hit with either.

 

[stinger 327]

I have a P3AT and feel protected as long as it is a close encounter. My M60 in 357 is much more assuring!!!

.357 will get the job done well.

 

[nathan]

I go for the 9 mm Makarov. AMmo is much cheaper and more available.

 

[stinger 327]

I go for the 9 mm Makarov. AMmo is much cheaper and more available.

Cheaper and more available than what?

 

[kokapelli]

I go for the 9 mm Makarov. AMmo is much cheaper and more available.

Yes but not the selection of quality self defense ammo available in 380.

 

[amd6547]

I agree with prefering 9mm mak. Since I use FMJ in 380acp, the selection of overpriced magic bullets is not an issue when comparing 9mm mak to 380. I can buy all the 9mm mak ammo I want for $10/box.

 

[Fastcast]

I also just run FMJ in my CZ-82 and don't think twice about. It's a little bigger diameter than .380 or 9x19 and at 1050+ FPS times 13 rounds, hopefully it will be enough to allow me to back my way out of trouble.

Now I do run .380 102gr. HP Golden Sabers in the Beretta M84.....Since it has a 3.85" barrel but if I was carrying a little pocket rocket like an LCP it would probably just be FMJ....Maybe would run 1 HP in the tube and FMJ in the mag.

I'm not so sold on the HP in these calibers, from the gel/penetration tests I've seen. ..........There's always a compromise when carrying.

 

[snooperman]

Years ago the 380 was not too good, but...

today with the better variety of modern ammo that is available, like Corbon, and Speer gold dot, and others, the 380ACP will deliver adequate velocity and , penetration and expansion. I carry the 38 special +P but would feel fine with a 380 with Gold dots.

 

[stinger 327]

today with the better variety of modern ammo that is available, like Corbon, and Speer gold dot, and others, the 380ACP will deliver adequate velocity and , penetration and expansion. I carry the 38 special +P but would feel fine with a 380 with Gold dots.

Corbon is great ammo. Is MagSafe and Corbon related somehow or made by same Company?

 

[kokapelli]

This website has interesting information on different brands of 380 ammo performance from a short barrel.

One thing I noticed is that Herter 380 fmj is actually a little hotter than most other 380 fmj.

http://www.citybillys.com/380%20data

 

[The_Shootist]

Another vote for the Mak. Dunno about SD ammo not being available. Hornady makes a good round....and this is coming soon:

2.9X18 Makarov+P----Velocities derived from 4 inch Mak pistols
◦95gr. JHP@ 1125 fps
◦115gr. Hard cast-FN@1000 fps


Courtesy of Buffalo Bore of course!

 

[christcorp]

The 9x18 Makarov caliber is definitely one of the best self defense calibers. Not too big for people to handle; and not too light to be a problem. (Even though, I don't believe in that TOO LIGHT crap). Currently, I have used Hornady, PowRball, and SilverBear HP for Self defense. All shoot fantastic through my CZ82. Then again, the CZ-82 is also one of the best pistols out there, and will shoot anything you feed it. So there is definitely good defensive ammo out there. And yes, Buffalo-Bore is definitely setting up for a couple of good rounds. I've had discussions with them for the last year, and they indeed are getting up on it.

As to the question of "What is 9mm mak cheaper and more available than", that is a very obvious answer. It's cheaper and more available (On-Line), than any other ammo. The ammo for plinking is about $9-$10 a box if you look around. What other ammo is that cheap? Yes, if you don't know how to shop, it can cost you around $12. The cost of good defensive ammo is about the same as any other. In the $18-$24 range.

As for the 380 not being powerful enough; that is also pure B.S. I even carry my 32acp walther, because I trust it too. If you are the type that in a defensive situation and is probably going to close their eyes when they pull the trigger at another "Human Being", then you probably need a much bigger caliber and a 15 round magazine. But shot placement is everything. If you can maintain composure, and take aim, then a 32 or 380 will also work fine.

And for those that tell you a 32 or 380 isn't enough for self defense, respectfully mention to them that you really do want to know the truth. And that you'd like to do some honest experiments. Ask them if they'll stand about 10-20 feet away from you, wearing all the clothes/coats that they want, and let you shoot them with a 32acp or 380acp. I really doubt that you'll get ANY volunteers. And when they back peddle and tell you, "well..... yea it's fine for normal people...... but..... against the crazed drugged up criminal........ well, it just won't work......". Think seriously and digest what they just said. You'll realize that you're not a police officer breaking down doors and doing a drug bust, or infiltrating a gang. That you're walking down the street and simply needing to protect yourself. And the bad guy is betting 100% that you aren't armed. If s/he knew for a fact that you were armed, they guaranteed WOULD NOT try to mug or rob you. They would go after an easier target. That is a fact. And if/when you pull out your 32 or 380, or whatever you have, that is going to totally change their attitude. Now me, personally, I wouldn't really choose a 380. Not because of the caliber, but because the ammo is just too difficult to find and when you do, it's too expensive to practice with. I have a small 380, and I keep it for the rarest occasions when I am dressed such that no other gun will work, but I prefer my 9mm makarov caliber CZ-82, or my walther PPK 32acp, or if possible, my Sig P220 45acp. The main reason I LOVE the P220, is that after 7 shots at a target 20 feet away, I actually have to get REAL CLOSE to look at the holes, because 7 shots look like 4 shots. It's that accurate. But other than that, you will be fine with a 380. But as others have said, the 9x18 makarov caliber is cheaper and easier to get, there are at least 3 really effective self defense rounds with more coming. And for self defense, it's probably one of the best all around calibers. Not to big and not too small of a gun or caliber.

 

[Myles]

I've always had a special place for the .380. I don't consider it ideal, by any means; however, a small handgun with you is better than a large one at home.

Now, with the raging popularity of the new generation of pocket autos, you will get a different answer than if you had asked this same question 1-2 years ago. Just that short time ago, most forum posters would have scoffed and belittled your choice of caliber.

 

[Spencer_OKC]

Does the .380 really have enough stopping power?

the simple answer is NO.

But neither does the .357 Magnum, or the .45 ACP. I would carry a .380ACP for self defense because of the portability, but I do not consider any handgun round to have "enough" stopping power, or to be a completely reliable manstopper.

 

[Skillet]

does a .380 ACP have enough stopping power?

what's enough?


All I know is that if someone shot me with a .22, I would run away.

 

[easyg]

As for the 380 not being powerful enough; that is also pure B.S. I even carry my 32acp walther, because I trust it too.

If the .380 or the .32 were really powerful enough then they would be the caliber of choice for cops and soldiers.

Other than a physical disability that limits one's ability to control a larger caliber handgun, I can see no reason to carry a .380 or a .32.

Ask them if they'll stand about 10-20 feet away from you, wearing all the clothes/coats that they want, and let you shoot them with a 32acp or 380acp. I really doubt that you'll get ANY volunteers.

All that would prove is that folks don't like pain and expensive trips to the emergency room to get some stitches and antibiotics.
No matter how badly some folks want the .380 to be a good self-defense caliber, it's just not.
I doubt that anyone would volunteer to let me stick a fishing hook in to their chest, but that doesn't make a fishing hook a great self defense weapon.



Easy

 

[Dirty Bob]

I also like the 9x18mm Mak, but I have to admit that this is largely the platform. The standard Pistolet Makarova is a pretty darn' good gun. I used one to renew my CHL not long ago with a perfect score and definitely had the best group in the class. All but one (with a Sig .380) were using full-sized 9x19mm pistols, mostly shooting mild WWB ball, so their pistols were not harder to shoot than my Mak. The DA pull on my pistol is not great, but the SA trigger is crisp enough to do some serious shooting.

I've carried 9x18mm on many occasions without feeling undergunned. YMMV.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

 

[christcorp]

Well easyg; considering the FBI report of 2004 showing police officers feloniously killed; http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2004/table34.htm only 4 other calibers caused more police deaths than the 380. So I'd say that the 380 is quite capable of defending a person. Then again, more police were killed by a 22lr than a 357 magnum, so that must not be deadly either. So you can mention the inconvenience of getting stitches and antibiotics all you want. It simply shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

You don't have to have a reason to carry a 380 or a 32. You can carry a 460 for all anyone cares. And before you try and find stats that show some obscure situation where a person was shot with a 32 or 380 and didn't die; let me tell you that there are just as many stats out there with people surviving shots from a 44 magnum.

But to the original poster: if you practice and are proficient with your 380acp, then you will be doing better than 90% of the country who has a gun and rarely if ever go out and practice with it. So when you're hitting your mark 7 for 7 with the 380, and the person with their 9mm, 40sw, or 45acp are missing, you can feel good to know that you'll be able to protect yourself.

And even though easyg doesn't admit it, the 32acp in fact happened to be one of the most popular civilian and military calibers in Europe. And I don't think people in Europe are easier to shoot than in the United States.

 

[stinger 327]

If the .380 or the .32 were really powerful enough then they would be the caliber of choice for cops and soldiers.

Other than a physical disability that limits one's ability to control a larger caliber handgun, I can see no reason to carry a .380 or a .32.


All that would prove is that folks don't like pain and expensive trips to the emergency room to get some stitches and antibiotics.
No matter how badly some folks want the .380 to be a good self-defense caliber, it's just not.
I doubt that anyone would volunteer to let me stick a fishing hook in to their chest, but that doesn't make a fishing hook a great self defense weapon.



Easy

.32 has been the choice for many european countries in the past.
Also the famous Zebra Killers used this caliber to kill and terrorize SF back in 1974.

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

Does the .380 really have enough stopping power?

380 doesn't give me enough confidence in it's ability to stop an attacker if vital organs are missed. especially if the attacker is on high on drugs.

the smallest i would carry is +P+ 9mm jhp's.

 

[stinger 327]

380 doesn't give me enough confidence in it's ability to stop an attacker if vital organs are missed. especially if the attacker is on high on drugs.

the smallest i would carry is +P+ 9mm jhp's.

There are many doubts about 9mm not stopping adversaries which is why police now use the .40 cal.

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

There are many doubts about 9mm not stopping adversaries which is why police now use the .40 cal.

many still issue 9mm.

most police that still issue 9mm's do so in the form of +P+.

 

[christcorp]

There is a big difference between self defense and home defense. Self defense is generally categorized as a person being in a neutral location when an attack on them occurs. Home defense is what it sounds like; you are in your house when the attack occurs. The greatest difference is that the gun you use for "self defense" has the purpose of either stopping the threat and making them leave, or providing you the opportunity to get away from the threat. Home defense, you aren't leaving generally. So the purpose is to either make the threat leave or make the threat no longer a threat, which could include many possibilities in the imagination.

The mind of a criminal is different between a home break in and an aggravated assault in public. A home break in requires a lot more planning. Time of day, is anyone home, noise, etc... An assault in public, the attacker plans on physical assault if necessary. A home break in, the attacker is planning on a simple robbery. Point is, in neither crime is the assailant planning on you being armed. If they knew you were armed, or knew you were at home, they most likely wouldn't be attacking you. They'd be going after an easier target. Of course, if it's "personal" where the attacker know the victim, that's a different situation.

So pulling a gun out on an assailant in public will reduce the threat. And if you can keep your composure and are willing to shoot the attacker if necessary, you will eliminate the threat. Either they leave, they go down, or you are able to run away. All 3 options are acceptable.

When people say that a drugged up and crazed attacked isn't going to be affected by a 32 or 380, they aren't realistic. These scenarios when the drugged up and crazed person didn't go down with a particular caliber, is usually related to police officers in the line of duty. But it doesn't matter. Some people will believe until the grave that a 32acp or 380acp is incapable of protecting anyone. Many also believe that if you have revolver, you're also in trouble. And if you don't have at least 15 rounds in a magazine, with a backup magazine, you're also doomed. So there's really no sense on debating it.

 

[easyg]

Well easyg; considering the FBI report of 2004 showing police officers feloniously killed; http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2004/table34.htm only 4 other calibers caused more police deaths than the 380. So I'd say that the 380 is quite capable of defending a person. Then again, more police were killed by a 22lr than a 357 magnum, so that must not be deadly either. So you can mention the inconvenience of getting stitches and antibiotics all you want. It simply shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

Here's the problem with this "data":
The fact that the .380 eventually killed someone does not tell us how quickly it killed them nor how quickly they were STOPPED at the time of the shooting.
Some folks get shot and die many hours later.
It does me no good to shoot someone (who is attacking me) and have them continue the attack, kill me, and then die 6 hours later.

And the 4 calibers that fared better from that data were....
.38 Special, 9mm, .40, and .45ACP, which is about EVERY other common self defense caliber!
And if every other common self defense caliber fared better than the .380, then why would anyone choose it as their primary self defense caliber?

And even though easyg doesn't admit it, the 32acp in fact happened to be one of the most popular civilian and military calibers in Europe.

Where did you get this notion?
Can you link some site that backs up the claim?
What European military is using the .32ACP as their handgun caliber of choice?

And if you can keep your composure and are willing to shoot the attacker if necessary, you will eliminate the threat. Either they leave, they go down, or you are able to run away. All 3 options are acceptable.

Or option #4:
They continue the attack and kill you because the .380 was not powerful enough to quickly stop them.


Easy