Does the primer alone create enough pressure to move the bullet into the barrel?

[lightman]

Its been my experience with others that a primer can drive a bullet into the barrel but not always. I would try driving it out the shortest distance.

I said experience with others because I don't remember ever having a squib. After posting this I better go buy me some range rods!

 

[EricBu]

Let's assume that a bullet was pressed into a shellcase WITHOUT ANY gunpowder. If that cartridge was fired, would the primer create enough pressure to move the bullet out of the firing chamber and into the barrel, let alone have enough pressure to force the bullet out of the muzzle of the barrel?

Yeah, classic squib. Will lodge far enough in the barrel you'll have to rod it out.

 

[.308 Norma]

That crimp can vary considerably. I've removed the bullets from 5 different name brands of 9mm ammo with an impact bullet remover.

I can't even remember the last time I fired a factory 38 Special round, so I'm the one who determines the amount of "crimp" or lack thereof as far as 38 Special ammo goes.
That's pretty much true with all of the centerfire handgun ammo my wife and I use, and except for 30-30 and .32 Special, I don't crimp bottlenecked rifle ammo at all.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I saw a friend of mine shoot at a clay pigeon, (we were shooting a round of Trap), hit and break it, with a shell that sounded "off". This was last Sunday. When we examined the hull, (we being several seasoned shot shell reloaders) we determined from the sound and examination of the hull that he had somehow loaded one without powder.

That would be one bad a$$ primer.
Light powder charge, sure. No powder at all? I think not.

 

[Havok7416]

Could be? Guy sent me this photo. No flash hole. View attachment 1143506 I added the 23000.




See primer output. https://discover.dtic.mil/results/?q=Primer output#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=Primer output&gsc.page=1

I read through bits and pieces of the article, including what you specifically referenced. If the numbers they presented are true, you should be able to take a .45 ACP +p cartridge with a small pistol primer pocket and launch the bullet to a target.

For reference I also did some testing awhile back and found a .45 ACP can be discharged at ~500 FPS using a 2/3 charge of a particular powder*. The slide will cycle using this load but not with a lesser charge. My point in posting all that is to mention that the case pressure in a primer-only cartridge is undoubtedly LESS than the 23,000-plus PSI stated in the linked article due to the volume of the case. However as my ~2/3 load demonstrates, you also don't need 23,000 (or 21,000 from a standard .45) to launch a rather heavy projectile not only out of the barrel, but all the way to the target. Meanwhile a true primer-only squib will only move a typical bullet just into the rifling. As many here have stated, it's usually not far enough to allow the next cartridge to fully load.

For the purposes of discussion, let's say that the 2/3 load also generates 2/3 the pressure (I realize that it is likely not a linear relationship). That puts the pressure of these special round right around 15,300 PSI. The bullet still clears the bore and the slide still cycles, even on a 3" 1911. So even if a primer somehow made 23,000 PSI on its own and we gave the best case possible for the case volume - say it drops to 10,000 PSI due to the expansion of gases in the empty case - the bullet should still move a considerable distance on just the force of the primer alone. And yet, as I and several others can attest to, the bullet (of any caliber) rarely moves very far at all.

Furthermore, the cartridge that they mention in the article apparently had no flash hole (as they put it, this is one that got past the inspectors). With nowhere to vent, I'm sure the pressures were indeed much higher. What's interesting to me is that they somehow knew they had a cartridge with no flash hole and also had equipment on hand to test said cartridge.

I'm just not buying their numbers.

*NOTE: Do NOT attempt this without a firm grasp of what you are dealing with. I have left out the specifics in the interests of safety. I would be happy to share my data with @Walkalong or another admin for verification purposes.

 

[entropy]

That would be one bad a$$ primer.
Light powder charge, sure. No powder at all? I think not.

209As are the hottest shotgun primer.
It's possible it had some powder in it, bit it didn't sound like it, and the barrel was clean as a whistle.
I've heard enough 'pooter' shells (that's what I call them anyway) over the last 50 years, and it sounded like a muffled cap pistol shot.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

Oh, yeah. It will move out of the chamber and stop in the barrel about halfway down. Ask me how I know.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I’m my 1911 it was 1/4” or less from allowing the slide to go fully into battery.
That was my one and only squib they year I started reloading.

Same here. Bullet went into the barrel just far enough to cause the next round not to chamber. It was stuck in there pretty tight. I field stripped the Sig P-239 and drove it out with a hammer and brass rod when I got home. Probably happens more than people would care to admit. My one and only squib in about 10 years of loading metal cartridges. I generally check each case after I charge them with a flashlight. Not sure how I missed one but I did. Luck-o-the-Irish.

 

[JohnB-40]

Yes it does.I felt like an idiot finding it out.