Does this exist? (.22 Compact Question)

[DT Guy]

My wife struggles with an extreme sensitivity to both blast and recoil; after a great deal of hard work, she can (finally) deal fairly well with a .22 handgun. She chose a Ruger LCR .22LR for her carry gun, but she (and I, to tell the truth) struggle with the heavy trigger and primitive sights.

She's a very acceptable shot with our larger .22 automatics, shooting 2" groups at 21' consistently. I'd like to find her a *reliable* (and this is the biggest stumbling block with a .22 auto, IMHO) compact or subcompact auto with a DA or striker trigger (she's not interested in Condition 1 carry.)

I thought the S&W .22 Compact might fit the bill, but I've read opinions that it's essentially a SA, and would therefore be unsafe to carry without its safety engaged. The Sig 250 and PPQ are only available in full-size pistols, and....that's about all I'm finding.

Is there something out there I'm overlooking, which would broadly meet those requirements? I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Larry

 

[usp9]

For an inexpensive, but reliable, .22, the Ruger SR22 has some pretty usable sights IMHO. Not sure you'll find much better in a small gun. Maybe add a laser?

Though It's not my favorite brand, the Bersa T-22 is pretty good with HV ammo, but the sights are similar to the Ruger. Worth a look.

 

[DT Guy]

For an inexpensive, but reliable, .22, the Ruger has some pretty usable sights IMHO. Not sure you'll find much better in a small gun. Maybe add a laser?

Though It's not my favorite brand, the Bersa T-22 is pretty good with HV ammo, but the sights are similar to the Ruger. Worth a look.

Hadn't noticed the Bersa-thanks for the suggestion.


Larry

 

[Blkhrt13]

Look at the sr22 Ruger and see if that is compact enough

 

[<*(((><]

Just for starters I'm a Walther fan, however since they merged with Umarex, I'm selective on which Walther's I purchase. My experiences with the Ulm plant Walther's has been great, this is the plant that produces the whole PPQ lines from .45, 40, 9mm, .22. (I have a Walther PPQ M2 .40 and the PPQ .22lr).

The Arnsberg plant of "Walther's" I call it the Umarex plant produces the P22. It's reputation is hit or miss however it would be a good one to look at, and work through the kinks with Walther on if your wife likes it well enough. It is a DA/SA hammer (manufacturer specs of 11lbs DA / 4lbs SA), it holds 10 rounds and is quite compact.

Given your wife's desire not to carry condition 1, and her liking the LCR except for the trigger is what led me to suggest the P22, at least for you to look at it. Just know that people have had their issues with the P22, but it seems that most find solutions or Walther makes it right. The P22 is quite small and strikes me as a good size for women out there if they only can be convinced of a rimfire.

It is just another option, personally I would look at the Ruger SR22 first, as suggested above.

 

[MedWheeler]

Taurus PT22, now discontinued, but readily-available. Mine is super-reliable with MiniMags and AutoMatch, admittedly the only stuff I've tried in it. This is the only gun my wife will shoot that I have that I consider safe to stow in a "ready-to-fire" condition. True DAO trigger that negates the need to use its minuscule manual safety. Its polymer-framed version, the PLY-22, is still being made.

For an extra modicum of reliability-assurance, you could use the .25ACP version of either (I also own two of the PT-25 models.)

 

[DT Guy]

Just for starters I'm a Walther fan, however since they merged with Umarex, I'm selective on which Walther's I purchase. My experiences with the Ulm plant Walther's has been great, this is the plant that produces the whole PPQ lines from .45, 40, 9mm, .22. (I have a Walther PPQ M2 .40 and the PPQ .22lr).

The Arnsberg plant of "Walther's" I call it the Umarex plant produces the P22. It's reputation is hit or miss however it would be a good one to look at, and work through the kinks with Walther on if your wife likes it well enough. It is a DA/SA hammer (manufacturer specs of 11lbs DA / 4lbs SA), it holds 10 rounds and is quite compact.

Given your wife's desire not to carry condition 1, and her liking the LCR except for the trigger is what led me to suggest the P22, at least for you to look at it. Just know that people have had their issues with the P22, but it seems that most find solutions or Walther makes it right. The P22 is quite small and strikes me as a good size for women out there if they only can be convinced of a rimfire.

It is just another option, personally I would look at the Ruger SR22 first, as suggested above.

She actually has a P-22, but I didn't mention it, as it's never fired more than four rounds consecutively.

Larry

 

[<*(((><]

She actually has a P-22, but I didn't mention it, as it's never fired more than four rounds consecutively. Larry

 

[danez71]

The 2 small 22s that I read to be consistently the most reliable are the SR22 and the S&W MP line; both sizes.

My SR22 was 100 percent reliable with all 6-8 different kinds of ammo with most of these being cheap stuff.

The SR22 had better sites than my Bersa 22.

The 2 triggers were comparable with the slight edge going to the Bersa single action.

The Bersa has only been 100% with HV ammo I think at 125 ftlbs or more..... or maybe its 135ftlb - Mini mags, blazers, and a cpl others.


ETA: What I would recommend is the SR22.

Some what oddly, I sold mine and kept my Bersa. I just always liked the ppk style and I feed it what it likes.

 

[Blkhrt13]

The 22 ply is supposed to have ironed out all the problems with the pt-22. I’ve seen results on the web say it runs much better. I can’t say as I don’t know anyone at the moment who owns one.

 

[Blkhrt13]

I have a coworker who shoots a lot of 22 cal at the range and swears the sr 22 is the most reliable regardless of what you feed it.

 

[Tallball]

The Taurus P22 is a copy of a Beretta (I forget the Beretta model number). Like the Beretta, it's also available in 25acp.

If the Taurus isn't reliable, the Berettas aren't super expensive. You might think about the 25acp version. The recoil feels just the same to me, but it's centerfire and won't give the reliability issues that 22's can have.

 

[Blkhrt13]

The Taurus P22 is a copy of a Beretta (I forget the Beretta model number). Like the Beretta, it's also available in 25acp.

If the Taurus isn't reliable, the Berettas aren't super expensive. You might think about the 25acp version. The recoil feels just the same to me, but it's centerfire and won't give the reliability issues that 22's can have.

The 22 caliber version is the 21a bobcat. It’s based on the 950 jetfire.

 

[Sarge7402]

You might try the walther ppk/s in 22. Had one a couple of years ago and it ate anything that would go in the magazine. Also it's a bit heavier than most and will soak up recoil more so than a SR22

 

[chicharrones]

I have a compact and a sub-compact .22 LR DA/SA pistols in a Bersa Firestorm (same as Thunder) and a Beretta Bobcat.

I'd disregard the Bobcat almost immediately as the sights are tiny slivers and reliability past a few magazines worth is known to be an issue for many, including mine.

The Bersa .22LR would be much better if it had the same sights as the Bersa .380 Combat as the Combat has bigger and more visible sights. I sure would like to put a set on my Bersa .22LR, but the way the front is mounted on the .22LR it would be a gunsmith type of job.

If money isn't an issue, I'd seriously look into the Beretta Cheetah 87. It is DA/SA with a frame mounted safety and about as small as a Bersa .22 LR. The Cheetahs run about $770.00 around my part of the world.

 

[45Fan]

The Walther options in 21a, and ppk/s are both excellent options. I purchased a Bersa 22 for my son a few years back, and while an accurate pistol, it leaves a lot to be desired in reliability for CC duty. Another idea, if she has a p22 and likes the feel of it, look at the PK-380. When my wife decided to step into a CC handgun, this was her first choice. It is a locked breach gun, so recoil is very mild compared to other 380s in this size. Recoil and blast is comparable to slightly smaller blowback 22s, and the 380 is a definite step up in power. If she shoots very much at all, it won't be long and she will be looking to upgrade. I think it took my wife about 6 months, and she moved to a 9mm PF-9 for daily carry, and after a few years, she has options that run from 22lr to 44 mag in her safe.

 

[BSA1]

My wife struggles with an extreme sensitivity to both blast and recoil; after a great deal of hard work, she can (finally) deal fairly well with a .22 handgun. She chose a Ruger LCR .22LR for her carry gun, but she (and I, to tell the truth) struggle with the heavy trigger and primitive sights.

She's a very acceptable shot with our larger .22 automatics, shooting 2" groups at 21' consistently. I'd like to find her a *reliable* (and this is the biggest stumbling block with a .22 auto, IMHO) compact or subcompact auto with a DA or striker trigger (she's not interested in Condition 1 carry.)

I thought the S&W .22 Compact might fit the bill, but I've read opinions that it's essentially a SA, and would therefore be unsafe to carry without its safety engaged. The Sig 250 and PPQ are only available in full-size pistols, and....that's about all I'm finding.

Is there something out there I'm overlooking, which would broadly meet those requirements? I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Larry

Since your wife has so much difficultly with dealing with recoil, sights and trigger pull why do you want a subcompact or compact pistol?

If it is for conceal carry a common mistake that folks make is they chose a small gun for ease of concealment rather than the one that they shoot the best. A gun that is unpleasant to shoot will not be practiced with much causing the owner to be less proficient in shooting skills. With mouse guns and calibers accuracy is more important than with larger cartridges.

 

[MedWheeler]

Tallball writes:

The Taurus PT22 is a copy of a Beretta (I forget the Beretta model number). Like the Beretta, it's also available in 25acp.

Largely true, though the Beretta is a DA/SA model, while the Taurus uses a bobbed hammer and is DAO. Both use a tip-up loading system, eliminating the need to rack the slide, a difficult feat in itself. However, this means no extractor, so racking the slide won't clear the chamber.

The Beretta could be thumb-cocked as well, offering another option for "first-shot trigger feel."

 

[MedWheeler]

BSA1 writes:

If it is for conceal carry a common mistake that folks make is they chose a small gun for ease of concealment rather than the one that they shoot the best. A gun that is unpleasant to shoot will not be practiced with much causing the owner to be less proficient in shooting skills. With mouse guns and calibers accuracy is more important than with larger cartridges.

True, but if the "one that they shoot the best" happens to be a 5-inch 1911, or even a 4.75-inch Ruger 22/45, it might get left behind more often, leaving its owner unarmed. The OP has not indicated that his wife shoots any centerfire gun well (so we rule those out) and few shooters would consider even a subcompact .22 "unpleasant to shoot."

The conceal-carry needs, and difficulties, for a woman who is apparently of slight build and of limited grip strength and dexterity will certainly differ from those of a larger man. It's difficult to imagine my wife carrying any firearm on her hip most of the time, especially some of the ones I have carried without issue (she would likely be restricted to off-body carry during those times.)

Your last sentence quoted is definitely a strong point. Practice with anything carried for defense is crucial, but even more critical when other advantages (such as capacity and ballistic performance) are as compromised as they are with these smallest calibers. This puts the .22LR above the .25ACP, as ammunition for the former is far more affordable and readily-available.

 

[GEM]

I had a PT-22 and it was a horror. I've seen the Beretta 21's also be jammers. Small 22 semis are notorious for being such. A standard reply might be a J frame in 38 SPL or one that gun fires 32 HR Mag or 327 BUT loaded very lightly. 38 SPL Wadcutters, 32 SW Longs or the like. That is a reliable solution. No fooling around with a semi's quirks. Now, some will say stopping power, blah, blah but we are comparing to a 22 LR anyway. Worth a try at a rental range.

 

[45Fan]

I had a PT-22 and it was a horror. I've seen the Beretta 21's also be jammers. Small 22 semis are notorious for being such. A standard reply might be a J frame in 38 SPL or one that gun fires 32 HR Mag or 327 BUT loaded very lightly. 38 SPL Wadcutters, 32 SW Longs or the like. That is a reliable solution. No fooling around with a semi's quirks. Now, some will say stopping power, blah, blah but we are comparing to a 22 LR anyway. Worth a try at a rental range.

The only problem with that thought is that he has stated that she has an LCR in 22LR, and neither of them care for the trigger. Im a Smith and Wesson fan myself, but I will admit that the trigger on an LCR is one of the best out of the box for a small revolver. If that is too much, there is slim chance any of the other little revolvers will be any more satisfactory. The best solution I have seen mentioned here is a trip to a range, and spending some coin on a few of their rentals that strike a fancy. As far as the tiny Berettas being reliable, I have had a Jetfire in 25 that would jam on the second to last in every magazine, no matter what mag I used. I also have a 21a that will eat any sort of 22 LR you care to feed it, and never have so much as a hiccup. I think to date its favorite ammo has been Remington Golden Bullets.

 

[Tallball]

GEM mentioned 32 S&W long. I shoot that a fair amount, and its recoil is negligible. It's like shooting a 22. But as 45Fan said, if the LCR isn't working out, a different small revolver probably wouldn't be an improvement.

 

[sean m]

Have you considered the LCRx in 22 with the 3" barrel. the larger grip should help get better leverage for depressing the trigger and the adjustable sights should make it easier to get on target.

 

[DT Guy]

The only problem with that thought is that he has stated that she has an LCR in 22LR, and neither of them care for the trigger. Im a Smith and Wesson fan myself, but I will admit that the trigger on an LCR is one of the best out of the box for a small revolver. If that is too much, there is slim chance any of the other little revolvers will be any more satisfactory. The best solution I have seen mentioned here is a trip to a range, and spending some coin on a few of their rentals that strike a fancy. As far as the tiny Berettas being reliable, I have had a Jetfire in 25 that would jam on the second to last in every magazine, no matter what mag I used. I also have a 21a that will eat any sort of 22 LR you care to feed it, and never have so much as a hiccup. I think to date its favorite ammo has been Remington Golden Bullets.

I don't know what the CF LCR's are like, but I've read that they have good triggers; this rimfire LCR most certainly does NOT have a good trigger. I've shot a wide variety of DA revolvers, from a Ruger Security Six that was my 16th birthday present, to Smith J frames, K frames and L frames, including a couple dedicated PPC guns (at one time I managed to crack into the 'Master' class in PPC at our local league), and this is about the worst I've encountered; combined with the sights, it's far more difficult to shoot than even a S&W 442 or similar.

And while I agree that a larger gun would be easier to shoot (there's a reason target pistols aren't usually small, after all), MedWheeler was right; my wife is petite and lightly built, so concealing anything is tough; concealing a larger gun would be essentially impossible.

I do appreciate the suggestions; this is tough. Google 'hyperacusis' if you want to see what we're up against in terms of caliber, recoil and noise, by the way.

Larry

 

[doubleh]

I purchased a P22 several years ago and never had any problems with although I know some did. One of my grandsons still has it and has had no problem with it. Not too long after letting him have the gun I began to miss it and the SR22 had been on the market a few months and I bought one of those. I've posted this before but it is the most trouble free, unfinikey 22 handgun I've ever owned. As long as it's HV ammo it shoots it. Last year one of the Walther PPQ/s 22s joined it. So far it has been just as reliable.