Does Wolf and Tulammo without lacquer coating gum up your gun?

[TomJ]

My reloads are what I primarily shoot as range ammo, but from time to time I'll buy a case of 9mm ammo when I don't have time to reload. I'm seeing 9mm Wolf and Tulammo at a little over $.12 a round, which is tempting. I've heard many of the negatives of steel case ammo such as being harder on your extractor over time and being dirtier but have a question specific to the ammo without the lacquer coating. One of the things I heard from Sig's customer service was that the Russian steel case ammo, even without the lacquer coating, still has some kind of coating that can gum up your gun. Is there any truth to this? I don't intend on using this ammo frequently, but will using it occasionally somehow gum up my guns in a way that a good cleaning won't take care of?

I've used it in the past a few times, and the only problem I noticed is that on one occasion each with my VP9SK and P320 they failed to extract the spent case. Is this harmful to the gun?

 

[FL-NC]

It depends. It is definitely dirty, but cleaning the gun fixes this. Reliability is another matter. My Glocks have eaten thousands of rounds of that stuff with no issues, whether I clean them or not. My SA milspec 1911 doesn't mind it at all, nor does my dad's Ruger SR9. On the other hand, my shield 9 and Mrs. Fl-NC's LCP want nothing to do with that stuff- they both become jam-a-matics.

 

[skeeterfogger]

I make every attempt to stay away from lacquered. Never had any issues with the little I've used in the past but prefer to learn from others issues than my own.
Have not had any issues from dry coated steel cases.

 

[SRSTAdam21]

Have shot thousands of rounds of all different calibers and never had a single issue. But I clean after each range session. Never used the lacquer stuff.

 

[dogtown tom]

.....One of the things I heard from Sig's customer service was that the Russian steel case ammo, even without the lacquer coating, still has some kind of coating that can gum up your gun.

Someone at Sig is an absolute 100% idiot.
1. "lacquer" on ammunition, no matter country of origin does not melt and "gum up" your gun.
2. take a fired lacquer coated case, light a match, apply to case, wait for that coating to melt. (won't happen)
3. No foreign ammunition manufacturer currently imports ammunition with a lacquer coating. Some have a coating, but its not lacquer. (that coating doesn't melt either)
4. If your gun does "gum up", it aint the lacquer coating, bit carbon buildup from the steel case. Steel cases are not as effective as brass at sealing the case mouth.
5. Lucky Gunner dispelled this myth years ago. Sig CS needs to do some reading before passing on such nonsense.
6. This topic has been beat to death on every gun forum on the internet.

 

[MySuomi]

I am actually burning thru a few thousand 9mm Tula and Wolf steel that I have purchased over the past 5 years (in boxes not the plastic cylinders). I shot 250 rounds of Wolf 9mm on Saturday. Had two stovepipes in my RO Compact 9 but no issues in anything else. Also I shot the steel stuff in my Sig 365, Hellcat, and Nano as well. I did break an extractor on my Taurus 1911 6 months ago using steel. But that was mainly because I stupidly had a round that did not extract and accidently released the slide on it. Broke the end of the extractor right as I was saying "Oh S***".

The reason I differentiated the Tula boxed steel from the Tula Plastic Cylinder stuff is that I ran into OAL issues with the Cylinder rounds (these were brass though and not steel). The bullets were so loose you could push them in with your finger.

But, I would shoot the boxed steel stuff without a second thought.

 

[bdickens]

Not mine. I have a Glock! They function better and better the more dirt and gunk builds up in them!

 

[Ignition Override]

>>> dogtown tom <<< (remarks #5) explained it perfectly!
I've tried on a few gun websites, but nobody pays attention. And people prefer to knock Russian or other imported ammo....something to do with wanting people to buy US-made ammo?
For so many people, this motivation/agenda seems to be difficult to understand. Some of it is actually bias, from the Cold War thinking.

I've used at least a thousand rounds of 'lacquered' Romanian 8x57 Mauser (in a Yugo) and a Few Thousand rds. of lacquer-coated 7.62x39 ammo (in several imported AKs and SKS) with no issues at all, whether extraction, ejection etc.
People tend to want a case to have a surface which helps both feed and extraction.

An acetylene blowtorch has been required to melt the green lacquer or whatever is used on these ammo cases.

* Has everybody here already noticed that top quality guns, for many decades, have been produced in Czechoslovakia, or the recent Czech Republic? CZ, VZ---This might ring a distant bell....
Czech ammo company Sellier Bellot used a 'lacquer' coating on 7.62x39 ammo. Search "Czech 7.62x39 ammo" on YouTube.

The Czechs wouldn't have produced or used anything which was a risk to a gun's operation.

 

[Average Joe]

No, never had anything melt off those shells.

 

[TomJ]

Thanks for the responses. I ordered a case of the Wolf ammo. The downside to it is that many indoor ranges in our area won't let you use it, but I do most of my shooting at my gun club, which is outdoors and doesn't have that restriction.

 

[Speedo66]

One of the things I heard from Sig's customer service was that the Russian steel case ammo, even without the lacquer coating, still has some kind of coating that can gum up your gun.

Hmm, doesn't Sig just happen to sell their own ammo? I'm sure they wouldn't stoop to badmouthing someone else's.

Russian, and previous to that, Chinese steel cased ammo has worked fine in every gun I've shot it in. Smells funny is all. lol

 

[Robbins290]

I used to shoot 1000 rounds at a time with the older wolf stuff in a P226. I never found any coating stuck in the chamber or anywhere else. Besides being dirty. Only complaints i have is, it turned your hands green and got your clothes dirty.

Its accurate and reliable. Never had any misfires with it, and i never saw abnormal wear.

 

[roo_ster]

The steel cased Russian ammo is as dirty as Winchester white box and about as reliable.

 

[Ignition Override]

Speedo66:
It's good to see that other people are also aware of ammo manufactured by Sig.

 

[TomJ]

Hmm, doesn't Sig just happen to sell their own ammo? I'm sure they wouldn't stoop to badmouthing someone else's.

Russian, and previous to that, Chinese steel cased ammo has worked fine in every gun I've shot it in. Smells funny is all. lol

I was having a conversation with one of their supervisors regarding light primer strikes problems I was having with my P365XL, which they recently replaced with one that works. The gun was having this problem with PMC and HST ammunition so it was not ammo related, but he mentioned issues with Wolf and Tullammo during this conversation as a heads up in case I was using this ammo.

 

[kenboyles72]

I shoot Monarch steel cased ammo exclusively in my AR, and my auto loaders and have had no issues. As far as the lacquer coating gumming things up, that's all a myth. Like what has been said before, what makes cases stick in the chamber, is carbon buildup. If you shoot a lot of steel cased ammo, keep the chamber clean and slightly oiled for AR platform rifles. On another note, I find Tulammo a lot dirtier than other steel cased ammo. Like I said, I shoot Monarch from Academy, which is just rebranded Brown Bear. This is very accurate and a lot cleaner, Wolf is the same.

 

[Ignition Override]

Most gun people have no understating as to how rigid steel cases, after many rounds, allows high pressure residue to ‘puff’ around it and accumulate in chambers.

But softer brass expands, and allows less hot gas to move around it.

 

[wingman]

I avoid all steel cased ammo as much as possible, the worse I have found is Winchester Forged, very rough cases, tried in 4 9mm's several misfires in all 4 guns.

 

[Ignition Override]

wingman: Yes, US-made "Forged" (by all-American Winchester) is --by far-- the only ammo which causes really frequent, weird issues in my newish CZ PCR, or Sigs. These guns never have issues with any ammo, other than a few weak recoil impulses in the Sig P229 (.40). This was with Tula.

*Tula is very high quality ammo compared to Winchester's "Forged". The only reason I use decent US-made ammo for the first 1,000 rds. in a gun is to exclude the possible 'weak powder load' (this allowed the target to escape...), or 'hard primer' factors seen now and then with Tula, maybe also with Wolf.

 

[94045]

I think someone (Lucky Gunner?) did a test firing 10,000 rounds each of different brands of steel case with a brass case control each with dedicated AR.

They had the rifles hot enough rounds would cook off after 10-15 seconds and the one brand that used lacquer instead of polymer did not melt.

 

[TonyAngel]

I read that article too. I was thinking as I was reading and took note that they were using Bushmaster rifles for that test. I won't make any comments, but a bushmaster was my first AR and the last that I bought as a complete rifle.

No import ammunition, whether lacquered or not, will "gum" up your firearm. I've run countless thousands of the cheap stuff through rifles I've built and never had a problem. Well, an occasional misfire, but never a stuck case or anything of that sort. Yes, the ammunition is dirty, but I have a beater rifle that was at 8000 rounds of mixed ammunition when I quit counting and it still hasn't been cleaned. Well, not thoroughly anyway. Before I shoot it, I lube the locking lugs, the rest of the bolt and a couple of drops for the rings. Then I'll just wipe out what I can get to with a rag and run a patch and then a bore snake down the bore. That one has a Daniel Defense barrel on it from when DD was making the move to CHF barrels and they were blowing out their conventional barrels for like $150.

I am far from being the know all of AR-15s, but I've built more than a few and got more than a few running right. I've found that most problems with shooting cheap ammunition (it's my suspicion anyway based on experience) are due to over gassing or under gassing. One thing I really don't skimp on when putting an AR together is the barrel. That little hole at the top can make all of the difference. Oddly enough, the barrel on my "special" build is a bushmaster and I've never had any problems with that one either. I seen many posts were advise is given to run an AR "wet" to alleviate problems. I don't agree with this. You can put all the lube you want in a chamber. After the first round is fired, it's gone. All an AR should need is proper lubrication. For two reasons. It lubricates the parts and it provides a medium with which the action can displace built up crud.

As far as shooting that Russian stuff through a pistol goes, I've never had any problems other than the occasional misfire, and I suspect premature barrel wear. It really kills me when someone says that they have a firearm that won't shoot steel cased ammo and are told my the manufacturer that it's the ammo. Pfft. Russian firearms don't seem to have any trouble with the stuff. My expectations may be too high, but with the manufacturing technology that we have in place these days...I feel that if a firearm will eat a commercially available ammunition, it should be able to digest it too. Heck, even with the older 1911s, the big gripe was that any particular one would feed a certain type of round. Not that it wouldn't eject it.