kBob
Member
Never mind all this measuring! Where can I get Lapua 7.62x39?
-Bob Hollingsworth
-Bob Hollingsworth
Domestic 7.62x39 .308 bullets rifles and ammo fact or myth?
- Thread starter R.W.Dale
- Start date
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jerkface11
Member
kBob from what I've read the Lapua stuff isn't that great. It's just expensive.
Jeff F
Member
I have loaded .308 diameter bullets for my .303 British with fair to good results. The .303 uses the same .311 diameter bullets as the Russian rounds. My best results with .308 bullets has been when I have paper patched them with a couple wraps of light onion skin paper and a dab of watered down Elmer's glue. I only messed around with it because .311 .303 bullets were getting hard to find and I had a bunch of the .308s on hand.
kBob
Member
jerkface11,
Having only used a couple of different M43 type rounds, like chinese of two types, some old military Czech from way back, Wolf, some of the Midway brass (about the only commerecial NC and Boxer ammo out at the time when the Maddi/Styers first came in) and Winchester I have found Lapua to be they MOST accurate of any M43 I have tried.
During a precission rifle class I attended that had other rifles ranging from HBARs and Styer SSGs to custom made K98 based gun, there was one kid that brought a MAK 90, Gohd know why. He was using earlier Wolf steel cases ammo and not doing very well, like 4+ inch groups over a bag from the prone at 100 yards. The kid was in high school and college a very competitive small bore shooter and so I attributed this to the MAK 90. He was about the quit the class but because I had seen him shoot the first day I brought 60 rounds of Lapua to him. He averaged just over 2 inches at 100 yards with the Lapua. I think that said something about the quality of Lapua ammo.
I have bought it in dribbles and drabs as I have found it in small quanties at gunshows, but would sort of like to have a small chunk of the stuff from the same case/lot.
Back when Keng was the major source of all things SKS and AK from china they sold Lapua at prices a good bit less than US commercial ammo.
I expect steel cased berdan one time use ammo to cost less than ammo that comes in reloadable brass.
-Bob Hollingsworth
Having only used a couple of different M43 type rounds, like chinese of two types, some old military Czech from way back, Wolf, some of the Midway brass (about the only commerecial NC and Boxer ammo out at the time when the Maddi/Styers first came in) and Winchester I have found Lapua to be they MOST accurate of any M43 I have tried.
During a precission rifle class I attended that had other rifles ranging from HBARs and Styer SSGs to custom made K98 based gun, there was one kid that brought a MAK 90, Gohd know why. He was using earlier Wolf steel cases ammo and not doing very well, like 4+ inch groups over a bag from the prone at 100 yards. The kid was in high school and college a very competitive small bore shooter and so I attributed this to the MAK 90. He was about the quit the class but because I had seen him shoot the first day I brought 60 rounds of Lapua to him. He averaged just over 2 inches at 100 yards with the Lapua. I think that said something about the quality of Lapua ammo.
I have bought it in dribbles and drabs as I have found it in small quanties at gunshows, but would sort of like to have a small chunk of the stuff from the same case/lot.
Back when Keng was the major source of all things SKS and AK from china they sold Lapua at prices a good bit less than US commercial ammo.
I expect steel cased berdan one time use ammo to cost less than ammo that comes in reloadable brass.
-Bob Hollingsworth
Harley Quinn
Member
yodar,
Thanks for your reply... I was asking about your overall bullet length because of the 155 gn weight you mentioned. The bullet that is made for it is lighter and I was thinking maybe shorter than the one you were making for it.
So I also asked for the twist to see if your large groups were due to not stablizing the weight and length of the bullet.
The weight could be heavier because of the property you are using and if they were made with another then the configuration is going to be different.
The tapering of the points in the original allowed it to feed well. The design of the bullet (in picture) is not a true spitzer. It is more like a round with a slight point to it.
I would figure yours are not a boat tail design, which means it might be the same length, but more of the bullet is touching as it is moving down the barrel, which would account for a different amount of accuracy with the bullet.
I have some 122 grain hollow point ammo that is/was made in Russia.
The weight difference is 33 grains less. So I am sure it is moving at a much higher velocity. I don't know if you have chronographed your stuff, but I'd say it is closer to 1600 than 2000 fps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x39
According to some the bullet designed for the russian manufacture was for feeding purpose also.
It is getting complicated, but your bullet would me slower and maybe not feed as well, have you had any signs of that being a problem?
http://www.conjay.com/Ammunition for Armor Testing East 7.62mm x 39.htm
Regards.
Thanks for your reply... I was asking about your overall bullet length because of the 155 gn weight you mentioned. The bullet that is made for it is lighter and I was thinking maybe shorter than the one you were making for it.
So I also asked for the twist to see if your large groups were due to not stablizing the weight and length of the bullet.
The weight could be heavier because of the property you are using and if they were made with another then the configuration is going to be different.
The tapering of the points in the original allowed it to feed well. The design of the bullet (in picture) is not a true spitzer. It is more like a round with a slight point to it.
I would figure yours are not a boat tail design, which means it might be the same length, but more of the bullet is touching as it is moving down the barrel, which would account for a different amount of accuracy with the bullet.
I have some 122 grain hollow point ammo that is/was made in Russia.
The weight difference is 33 grains less. So I am sure it is moving at a much higher velocity. I don't know if you have chronographed your stuff, but I'd say it is closer to 1600 than 2000 fps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x39
According to some the bullet designed for the russian manufacture was for feeding purpose also.
It is getting complicated, but your bullet would me slower and maybe not feed as well, have you had any signs of that being a problem?
http://www.conjay.com/Ammunition for Armor Testing East 7.62mm x 39.htm
Regards.
SSN Vet
Member
I'm pretty sure I've read that the Lee 155-2R mold Yodar is casting with is a Ed Harris design.
Is that the case Yodar?
This is definately not a boat tail bullet.
Surely others know a lot better than I but my understanding is that boat tails profiles can not be used for cast rifle bullets because they allow hot gases to contact and melt the side wall of the bullet along the boat tail.
Though I can understand if he's not so keen on posting the exact load,
I'm hoing Yodar will share some more specifics about what lube he's using....and what final diameter he's sizing to when he applies the gas checks.
Is that the case Yodar?
This is definately not a boat tail bullet.
Surely others know a lot better than I but my understanding is that boat tails profiles can not be used for cast rifle bullets because they allow hot gases to contact and melt the side wall of the bullet along the boat tail.
Though I can understand if he's not so keen on posting the exact load,
I'm hoing Yodar will share some more specifics about what lube he's using....and what final diameter he's sizing to when he applies the gas checks.
Last edited:
Harley Quinn
Member
Gas checks 
Should have mentioned that, thanks for adding that thought.
Should have mentioned that, thanks for adding that thought.
SSN Vet
Member
can't tell from the photo of course, but that bullet mold does accomodate a gas check.
SSN Vet
Member
bump....
Yodar....where are you?
Yodar....where are you?
res45
Member
I have a 1970 YUGO SKS the bore slugged out at .310. I have shot several different types of Russian Mil-Surplus ammo in it Wolf HP .310 being the worst I have shot,its more of the inconsistent loading than anything else. Golden Tiger .310 FMJ & Brown Bear .310.5 SP shoots 2" groups all day long.
I had 2 boxes of winchester FMJ American ammo I pickup up for $9 each I ran thought my SKS and it was somewhere accuracy wise between the Wolf and the other two Russian ammo,I thought it would have done better I haven't tried any .308 dia bullets in it to this point I may try a few just to test it out .
I started reloading for my SKS using Lee 3 dia set with FCD and both AA1680 & RL-7 powders and the Hornady .310 123 SP & Speer .311 150 Gr. SP which a friend had give me several boxes of and did I really see an improvement. I let my test targets speak for themselves,they we both shot at 50 Yds. using iron sights set 1" high. I'm not able to focus well out to 100 yet till I get my new glasses in November and i will redo my accuracy test at that point.
I had 2 boxes of winchester FMJ American ammo I pickup up for $9 each I ran thought my SKS and it was somewhere accuracy wise between the Wolf and the other two Russian ammo,I thought it would have done better I haven't tried any .308 dia bullets in it to this point I may try a few just to test it out .
I started reloading for my SKS using Lee 3 dia set with FCD and both AA1680 & RL-7 powders and the Hornady .310 123 SP & Speer .311 150 Gr. SP which a friend had give me several boxes of and did I really see an improvement. I let my test targets speak for themselves,they we both shot at 50 Yds. using iron sights set 1" high. I'm not able to focus well out to 100 yet till I get my new glasses in November and i will redo my accuracy test at that point.
SSN Vet
Member
res 45...
nice work!
I picked up a box of the Hornady .310 123 SP and can't wait to try it out.
I gave up on scrounging x39 brass and the prices on e-bay seemed ridiculous. Fortunately I picked up a couple boxes of Win and Fed factory loads off the "old inventory" table for $9 ea. I need to get busy shooting this up so I'll have some brass to reload.
seems that 1680 is the most popular choice for x39. I'll pick up a pound for my Hornady's.
am ordering the Lee 155-R2 die from Midway in the very near future and plan to try using 2400 for cast plinkers.
....
if any one is interested, I did find Yodars load off an old post.....
WW lead, mixed with 1 lb of magnum shot cast in the Lee 155-R2 and sized to .311
26.5gr of surplus Accurate 2200 data powder....crimped with the LFCD
------------
still would like to know if yodar is using Alox or a hard lube????
nice work!
I picked up a box of the Hornady .310 123 SP and can't wait to try it out.
I gave up on scrounging x39 brass and the prices on e-bay seemed ridiculous. Fortunately I picked up a couple boxes of Win and Fed factory loads off the "old inventory" table for $9 ea. I need to get busy shooting this up so I'll have some brass to reload.
seems that 1680 is the most popular choice for x39. I'll pick up a pound for my Hornady's.
am ordering the Lee 155-R2 die from Midway in the very near future and plan to try using 2400 for cast plinkers.
....
if any one is interested, I did find Yodars load off an old post.....
WW lead, mixed with 1 lb of magnum shot cast in the Lee 155-R2 and sized to .311
26.5gr of surplus Accurate 2200 data powder....crimped with the LFCD
------------
still would like to know if yodar is using Alox or a hard lube????
Marlin 45 carbine
Member
kBob inquiry for Lapua ammo
'skeeterbob' at 'auctionarms' site has it, 300 rds, 100$. shoots good in my
M30 seems hot loaded stuff. FMJ BTW.
'skeeterbob' at 'auctionarms' site has it, 300 rds, 100$. shoots good in my
M30 seems hot loaded stuff. FMJ BTW.
Yodar's lube for 7.62 x 39 loads
I used two home made lubes from the cast bullet list
my favorite was John Paul Jones' Saeco Green Lube
1 lb paraffin
1 lb STP (1/2 bottle)
1 lb beeswax
colored with a green crayon or three or a green votive candle
Saeco Green is a hard lube needing a heater
excellent for rifle loads
(I also used "Adrian's Goo": 1:1 Automotive lithium grease (1 1 lb cartridge) to 1 lb beeswax
excellent for pistol and low velocity rifle
yodar
I used two home made lubes from the cast bullet list
my favorite was John Paul Jones' Saeco Green Lube
1 lb paraffin
1 lb STP (1/2 bottle)
1 lb beeswax
colored with a green crayon or three or a green votive candle
Saeco Green is a hard lube needing a heater
excellent for rifle loads
(I also used "Adrian's Goo": 1:1 Automotive lithium grease (1 1 lb cartridge) to 1 lb beeswax
excellent for pistol and low velocity rifle
yodar
Fatelvis
Member
SSN, I'm in the process of doing the same thing. I just casted about 10lbs. of the 2Rs, and noticed they drop from the mould @ .3145". I'm going to size one batch at .314", and another at .312", and seat them over 11 grns of 2400. They'll be shot out of a Chinese and Russian SKS. I'll let you know how they shoot, please do the same when you shoot yours.
Harley Quinn
Member
I went looking around for someone who mentions twist in a Yugo.
"My Yugo SKS 7.62x39 has a 1 - 9.5 twist"
That is fast enough you would think
"My Yugo SKS 7.62x39 has a 1 - 9.5 twist"
That is fast enough
you would thinkBullets from Lee 311-2R
Mine dont drop that large using WWM, but they size easily to .312 for my Chi-Com SKS and i use them UNSIZED for the Enfield.
If I want it bigger for ragged out 91-30 Mosin-Nagants I add 1 lb magnum shot to tin-augmented wheel-weight-metal alloy and many of them will drop at .313-.315
benefit to high antimony/arsenic magnum shot is they make the bullet look bright and shiny almost chrome and it elicits a lot of inquiries at the bench
yodar
Mine dont drop that large using WWM, but they size easily to .312 for my Chi-Com SKS and i use them UNSIZED for the Enfield.
If I want it bigger for ragged out 91-30 Mosin-Nagants I add 1 lb magnum shot to tin-augmented wheel-weight-metal alloy and many of them will drop at .313-.315
benefit to high antimony/arsenic magnum shot is they make the bullet look bright and shiny almost chrome and it elicits a lot of inquiries at the bench
yodar
Harley Quinn
Member
yodar,
Hopefully a fan is behind you and plenty of fresh air I'll bet it would take a lot of arsenic to do you in Body builds up a tolerance they say.
Hopefully a fan is behind you and plenty of fresh air
I'll bet it would take a lot of arsenic to do you in Body builds up a tolerance they say.
SSN Vet
Member
Yodar/Fatelvis....great info. about "from the mold" sizes...thanks
Yodar, thanks for the saeco green recipe.
I don't get why Lee sizing dies jump from .311 to .314???
are the Lyman sizing dies for use with the Lubrisizer set up only....or can you put one on your press and push pan lubed bullets through it???
Yodar, thanks for the saeco green recipe.
I don't get why Lee sizing dies jump from .311 to .314???
are the Lyman sizing dies for use with the Lubrisizer set up only....or can you put one on your press and push pan lubed bullets through it???
res45
Member
SSN you can call LEE and for $25 they will make you a sizing die to any diameter you want. I think it take a few weeks to get it but at least you can have any custom size you want doing that.
marlin1888
Member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2007
- Messages
- 41
Lee made me me some nice custom sizing dies a few years ago to tune in my .318 bore Mauser rifle. And, you can't beat thier price!
Marlin1888
Marlin1888
ugaarguy
Member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
- Messages
- 13,828
Just thought I'd add a bit to the thread. One of my coworkers has a CZ carbine and the Remington SP load is the only domestic 7.62x39 load his rifle shoots well. This contrast is somewhat puzzling, but again shows the need to try a variety of loads to see what your particular rifle likes.
Hey Guys, I just signed up because I have an unfired Ruger 77 7.62x39 and was researching reloads when I found this site. I too have found many different answers to these questions, so I bought all the goods and measured myself, including calipers that will check inside and outside diameters:
Wolf classic ammo(camo box)= .308 dia.
Norinco (chicom) ammo (red box) = .308 dia.
Winchester Super X 123gr SP= .308
As to the muzzle dia., the lands are .300, the grooves .308! I have no way of telling if the barrel starts at .311 and tapers or not. The serial number on my gun is 789-623XX. This is the blued zytel skeleton stock, I dont know if they are all like this, just some extra info. coop22250
Wolf classic ammo(camo box)= .308 dia.
Norinco (chicom) ammo (red box) = .308 dia.
Winchester Super X 123gr SP= .308
As to the muzzle dia., the lands are .300, the grooves .308! I have no way of telling if the barrel starts at .311 and tapers or not. The serial number on my gun is 789-623XX. This is the blued zytel skeleton stock, I dont know if they are all like this, just some extra info. coop22250
Fatelvis
Member
Well, I found the .312" sized/ checked bullets over 15.0 grns of 2400, and Speedgreen lube, gave perfect funtioning, and "better than Wolf" accuracy with absolutely NO leading! Seat the bullets to 2.15" OAL, with a mild crimp, and you're set to go! The .314" sized bullets didn't chamber well, and weren't any more accurate than the .312"s. Any lower powder charge of 2400 and funtioning is iffy. Try 'em, you'll like them!
Cop 22250's Ruger
Ed Harris is on my other cast bullet list. He designed the NEI moulds for that bullet eveybody casts for SKS, etc. its ~.312' Same design in the Lee mould
(I'd give my left n*t for a 6 cavity of that mould)
That Ruger 7.62 x 39 carbine is a strange Bird. The Ruger was one of Ed's babies when he was with Ruger and the barrel IS .308
.
Later production acknowledging the larger dia of imported 7.62 x 39 ammo made a big throat that was supposed to swage the bigger bullet down to .308
Everybody I know who has of of these say they shoot like a Enfield jungle carbine, POI changing as rifle heats up
yodar
Ed Harris is on my other cast bullet list. He designed the NEI moulds for that bullet eveybody casts for SKS, etc. its ~.312' Same design in the Lee mould
(I'd give my left n*t for a 6 cavity of that mould)
That Ruger 7.62 x 39 carbine is a strange Bird. The Ruger was one of Ed's babies when he was with Ruger and the barrel IS .308
.
Later production acknowledging the larger dia of imported 7.62 x 39 ammo made a big throat that was supposed to swage the bigger bullet down to .308
Everybody I know who has of of these say they shoot like a Enfield jungle carbine, POI changing as rifle heats up
yodar
SKS loads
Fatelvis I am CHEEEEP. I got an 8 lb jug of Data 2200 from wideners 5-6 years ago, $8 a lb, and I am still using 25-26 grains under the Lee 312-155-2R bullet and I use the factory crimp die, I crimp the snot out those antimony/tin enhanced wheel weight bullets
On a good day I hit the 3" spinner on the 100 yard berm, 5" spinner everyday
When I run out of data 2200 I will buy some 2400 because it is a good universal powder for cast bullets in C&R rifles. Ed Harris developed the universal CB load using it.
yodar
Fatelvis I am CHEEEEP. I got an 8 lb jug of Data 2200 from wideners 5-6 years ago, $8 a lb, and I am still using 25-26 grains under the Lee 312-155-2R bullet and I use the factory crimp die, I crimp the snot out those antimony/tin enhanced wheel weight bullets
On a good day I hit the 3" spinner on the 100 yard berm, 5" spinner everyday
When I run out of data 2200 I will buy some 2400 because it is a good universal powder for cast bullets in C&R rifles. Ed Harris developed the universal CB load using it.
yodar
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