Domestic abuse victim wants handgun BUT...

[BSA1]

Sam1911 challenges each of us to look in the mirror and examine ourselves by asking

Who the HELL are we to say, "your psychology is inadequate ... take your beating and your rape and hope that'll satisfy him..."?

When I am called to answer that question before a Judge in a Court of Law and ultimate almighty Judge I will say I did all I could do;

Because I was raised in the Christian faith and believe in the Bible teaching that “I am my brother’s keeper.”

Because as a American citizen I believe in the principles of fair play and that I have a duty as a citizen, as a person of strong moral faith, as a person that has the ability, as person who has the means to help and protect the elderly, the sick, the disabled, the poor, the children and those who are in danger.

Because I spent 23 years working daily with the worst, most violent felons in my State. I heard over and over many times from them how the woman they murdered or beat up deserved everything she got and show no remorse for their actions.

Because these same felons reenter relationships and repeat the cycle of violence when they get out of prison,

Because I know what it is like to lose a parent at a young age and grow up without them.

Because I believe all people have the right to not live in fear.

Because I have the tool(s) at hand to give someone the security to not live in constant free.

Because I have the tool(s) at hand to give someone a advantage over someone that is stronger and bigger than they are.

Because I know the Police can not do anything to prevent someone from hurting or killing you.

Because I know that pieces of paper such as restraining orders are worthless.

Because I don’t believe anyone on THR can honestly say that they will be able to pull the on another human being until they are actually placed in that situation.

Most of all because I believe that the 4,000 women that are killed each year in domestic violence had the right to live.

Some of THR members have reexamined the facts and have the courage to say they changed their minds. I salute each of them.

But I have to join with Sam1911 when he says;

This is a little horrifying to read here. I'm very, very saddened

 

[texasgun]

to all the folks who say she should get a shotgun for home-defense because that requires no aim and solves all problems...

your average legal length shotgun at the typical home-defense distance (7 yds or less) will have a spread of a baseball/grapefruit...

so you definitely have to aim.... and aim pretty well under stress given that u are throwing baseballs at someone....

 

[Frosty Dave]

She comes from a typical anti-gun New England family (luckily the rest of her family has softened that stance since living in TX for a decade or so). She is afraid of guns but is beginning to see the benefits of them...although she is still very hesitant.

I've been following this thread without commenting, being in a similar situation and interested in different viewpoints. "Anti-gun NE family" really brings it even closer to home for me.

In my lady friend's case, she did get a restraining order and did get divorced several years ago. But the abusive and mentally ill ex still tries to insert himself in her life from time to time.

She totally buys into the anti-gun philosophy until he threatens her and then she starts talking to me about getting "a small gun." Similar to the situation that launched this thread, she won't consider learning to handle a gun or even talk about gun safety.

Like others in this thread, I've not encouraged her to get a gun or loan her one of mine, though I have not discouraged her either. She has young grandchildren that visit and an adult son at home who is a recovering drug addict, still fighting with emotional instability. Those facts, combined with her extreme reluctance to learn basic safety are why I can't encourage her.

However, she is an accomplished cook and competent with large knives so I have encouraged her to get a machete or kukri. But - she understands the damage a machete can do and recoils at the idea of chopping into an attacker.

I therefore have a suspicion that her desire for a gun is based on TV images that portray guns as remote and bloodless protection. It's only a topic of discussion when she feels threatened, so we don't talk about it as much as we should.

But I've certainly learned enough from this thread to talk about it with new perspective when it comes up again.

To OP whatever - good luck to you and your friend. I hope all turns out well.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I'm just saying I'd have a hard time giving her one of MY guns if her little ones had access to it. If she doesn't already have a firearm then she more than likely doesn't have a safe. If she does, then I feel a bit better.

Now I've made it obvious that I'm in the camp of not giving her the gun if she's not willing to at least take 30 minutes out of her day and learn to use it. I'm not saying she has to become an expert or even that she can hit what she's shooting at, just learn how to load and shoot it.

However, her not having a safe has nothing to do with my decision, nor should it anyone's IMO. If she keeps the gun locked in a safe, how in the world would she be able to access it in time to do any good at all?

Who the HELL are we to say, "your psychology is inadequate ... take your beating and your rape and hope that'll satisfy him..."?

I missed this statement reading my first time through.
It's more than a little ridiculous and a classic straw man argument, oversimplifying your opponent's position and then attacking the oversimplified version. It's just the other end of the extreme. Of course no one is saying that at all.
She is perfectly free to go into any gun store and purchase a gun if she wants one that badly. But people have different thoughts regarding the matter and whether or not you agree with them, there are valid thoughts on both sides of this.

Is there a risk to her? Of course there is, he has proven that.

Is there a risk to her children being in the home with a parent who has a firearm and no inclination to learn to use it safely? Without a doubt.

You weight the risks and you make your decision.

I wouldn't blame anyone for going either way on it. There are certainly valid points on both sides. I would think that everyone could see that point anyway.

 

[Sam1911]

I missed this statement reading my first time through.
It's more than a little ridiculous and a classic straw man argument, oversimplifying your opponent's position and then attacking the oversimplified version. It's just the other end of the extreme. Of course no one is saying that at all.

Please read through the posts around the one you quoted. You'll see that this is NOT at all a strawman argument.

Some have baldly stated that they consider it very likely that if he breaks into her place he will be more enraged if she produces a gun and instead of only beating her up, he'll then kill her (and probably with her own gun).

That really does come down to a decision to accept being beaten and/or raped, OR being armed. And it really does express the idea that having a gun will make things worse for the victim.

 

[Deanimator]

Either she's serious about protecting herself and her family or she's not.

Does she have a smart phone of some sort? Unless it sits in a drawer, she bothered to learn how to use it. She's got to exert at least as much effort to learn how to defend herself.

Shooting herself or one of her kids isn't going to protect her from her abuser. Neither is pretending that the police are going to "protect" her.

If she's smart enough to at least WANT to extricate herself from an abusive situation, she's smart enough to at least MINIMALLY learn to use a handgun.

She doesn't need to be Jerry Miculek. She just needs to be able to safely store, operate, aim and fire a firearm at across the room distances, without shooting herself or somebody who's not a threat. That's a VERY low bar. If she's not willing to learn to meet it, she's not serious about protecting herself.

You need to have a serious talk with her, and if she won't listen to reason, don't create potential difficulties for yourself by giving her a firearm she can't safely handle.

 

[Deanimator]

to all the folks who say she should get a shotgun for home-defense because that requires no aim and solves all problems...

Also, most of the people I see who reflexively do this don't seem to give a SECOND'S thought to the person's environment.

In my home, any non-NFA long gun is about as useless as a 14' bamboo cavalry lance.

My home isn't one of those aircraft hangers they call an "apartment" on the various Law & Orders. It's cramped, narrow and full of things that would impede use of a long gun.

A shotgun MIGHT be a great defensive tool in THEIR environment. In mine it's no better than a naginata.

And don't get me started on recommending bird shot for self-defense...

 

[Deanimator]

He's done some very bad things to her so far, but she's still alive.

And that's usually the case with ANY victim of domestic abuse.

The victim's alive... until she's NOT.

My godsister in Chicago was alive... until her boyfriend stabbed her to death.

Now she's NOT alive.

See how that works?

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Sam, I see the ones you're talking about and while I don't agree with them, I do think "Take your beating and rape and hope that satisfies him" is a bit of an oversimplification.
However, I do see your points and they are very much valid.

 

[Thermactor]

A madman in a tank has been threatening her. She's thinking of getting an ATGM but doesn't want to learn how to use it.

 

[Sam1911]

A madman in a tank has been threatening her. She's thinking of getting an ATGM but doesn't want to learn how to use it.

I will say you have presented quite a collection of highly entertaining, if not apropos, analogies!


"Charlie Manson's in a hot air balloon, coming to get 'witchy' on her, and she's asking for a huge fan to blow his balloon out to sea, but she won't learn how to plug it in!"

"Dr. Zeus is going to execute her for infiltrating ape society from out of the Forbidden Zone, and she's asking for a banana to distract him, but she won't learn how to peel it!"

"Idi Amin is going to eat her, and she's asking for a bottle of ketchup, but won't unscrew the cap!"

Too funny!

 

[Robert]

This is going nowhere and has become somewhat silly.