Don't Check with AirTran

[F4GIB]

Although, ATF says (in it's written QandA) that this is perfectly legal, neither USPS, UPS nor FedEx will permit you to ship a firearm to an addressee who is not a FFL.

 

[AntiqueCollector]

Then that's probably just your local offices doing that F4GIB. They do it here if all the rules are followed.

 

[ED21]

Flying with Gun Parts

On several occasions I have field stipped my handguns and placed the "parts" in two or more seperate bags. Then bypassed the reporting requirement. I called American Airlines (I usually fly American) and inquired about this. The response was there was nothing wrong with flying with "gun parts." I had my bag checked as evidenced by the letter TSA places inside on two occasions and have had no incidents. Now, I have not had to fly with ammunition as I have some which I leave at my destinations.

As a side note here: My wife was flying to her mother's and decided she needed a slightly larger carry on bag. She took one of my range bags and "emptied" it. When the bag went through the x-ray screening, several .45 rounds showed up. She was promptly detained and questioned. She was quite upset and explained to her that she had taken my bag, took out the guns and used it for her carry on bag. She told the supervisor that I was an CCH instructor and NRA instructor which seemed to appease them. I did lose the ammo though. She learned a lesson as well. Of course, when she was telling me this on the phone, it was my fault.

 

[aerod1]

I have flown Southwest, American and Delta since having my CHL and I have had no problems.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I have always interpreted this section to mean that the "bag" is different from the "hard case" in which the firearm is carried. I will concede, now that you bring it up, that it might be interpreted otherwise, but I'm going to stick with the interpretation I've been accustomed to.

I agree that your interpretation of federal law (which is what you have quoted) is correct. There is no doubt about it - the federal government/TSA allows the ammo to be in the same container as the firearm as long as the gun itself is not loaded. The problem is that since AirTran is a private company they have the right to place restrictions on the transport of firearms that are even more restrictive than federal law/TSA policy. In fact this is exactly what they have done.

I wasn't referring to the ammo part. I was referring to the requirement that the actual pistol case must be then packed inside a regular suitcase.

 

[dmftoy1]

As a side note here: My wife was flying to her mother's and decided she needed a slightly larger carry on bag. She took one of my range bags and "emptied" it. When the bag went through the x-ray screening, several .45 rounds showed up. She was promptly detained and questioned. She was quite upset and explained to her that she had taken my bag, took out the guns and used it for her carry on bag. She told the supervisor that I was an CCH instructor and NRA instructor which seemed to appease them. I did lose the ammo though. She learned a lesson as well. Of course, when she was telling me this on the phone, it was my fault.

What's even more interesting if trying to travel with a range bag is when they run those cotton patches around the inside and then place them in the sniffer . . . .took me a good 30 minutes of explaining in the late 90's before I got out of Raleigh NC.

 

[Fulcrum of Evil]

It's my understanding that the part of the gun with the serial number is the 'gun', so field stripping a pistol leaves you with a gun and some parts.

 

[Rob62]

ED21 – your quote “On several occasions I have field stipped my handguns and placed the "parts" in two or more separate bags. Then bypassed the reporting requirement.”

If that is true then you are clearly in violation of Federal Law. I cite (which has previously been posted):

Here is a direct link to the info - go about half way down the page:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...&rgn=div5&view=text&node=49:9.1.3.5.9&idno=49


[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 49, PART 1540—CIVIL AVIATION SECURITY: GENERAL RULES)

(c) In checked baggage. A passenger may not transport or offer for transport in checked baggage or in baggage carried in an inaccessible cargo hold under §1562.23 of this chapter:

(1) Any loaded firearm(s).

(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless—

(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing, before checking the baggage, that the passenger has a firearm in his or her bag and that it is unloaded;

(ii) The firearm is unloaded;

(iii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container; and

(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.

(3) Any unauthorized explosive or incendiary.

(d) Ammunition. This section does not prohibit the carriage of ammunition in checked baggage or in the same container as a firearm. Title 49 CFR part 175 provides additional requirements governing carriage of ammunition on aircraft.


Since BATFE has many times ruled that a receiver even if by itself is a firearm, you would not be able to circumvent current laws by disassembling your firearm and placing it in checked baggage.

Not sure I would admit to knowingly violating Federal Laws in any public forum such as this.

Regards,
Rob

 

[waterhouse]

The response was there was nothing wrong with flying with "gun parts."

As previously mentioned, once this:

has a serial number on it, it is not just "gun parts". It is, by law, a firearm. The fact that the airline doesn't know this will not keep you out of jail if TSA decides to open that bag and check for the bright orange declaration tag.

 

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Thanks. I still think it's funny as hell that my boxy bit of aluminum from Stag is considered an assault rifle (sort of), even though it doesn't even have a trigger.

 

[ED21]

Thank You

Well, I guess I will re-look my program. I figured "parts is parts." Wrong! I do have a travel safe ordered that was/is going in my truck but is good for air travel as well. Thanks again.

 

[10 Ring Tao]

Well, I guess I will re-look my program. I figured "parts is parts." Wrong!

I'm glad you were able to figure it out like this, and not in a court room or on your way to club fed.

 

[kingpin008]

5. I unlocked and opened the case and showed the agent my unloaded firearm with the two empty magazines. (At no point did the agent or I touch the firearm.)

Not trying to bust anyone's chops, but if neither you nor the agent handled the gun, how did the agent know it was in fact unloaded? Unless the slide is locked back, I'd imagine assuring oneself that the chamber is clear would be tough without actually handling the firearm. Even if the slide is locked back, I'd hope that the agent would either have me demonstrate that it is in fact clear, or they'd do it themselves. Sometimes you can't always see the chamber that well if the pistol is laying in it's case.

 

[Run&Shoot]

Kinpin,

I think the point is that it is not the ticketing agent's job to ensure the pistol is unloaded. that is why the ones I have encountered never even look at it. Their job is to give you a declaration tag and have you sign it attesting to the fact that it is unloaded. A TSA agent further down the line may want to inspect it, but not necessarily. even when TSA looks at the ones I have observed are very careful. They will use a pencil to move it around just enough to look it over.

To make it easier on every one involved I remove the cylinder on a revolver and turn it upright so the xray can verify it is unloaded (suggestion from TSA agent), or field strip a pistol to make it obvious it is unloaded and safe.

 

[Cliff47]

Flying out of Seattle on Southwest, I got to the baggage counter, announced to the lady behind the counter that I was traveling with a firearm, and unlocked my bag. She said that I needed to be at the full-service counter. We looked down the way, nobody was working the full-service counter. She handled things right there in about two minutes flat, then we walked the bag over to the TSA screener. Granted this was the first flight of the morning, and before sunrise.

We will see how the next reip goes in a couple of weeks.

 

[kingpin008]

Run & Shoot - I realize it's not their job, I was attempting to point out that technically, there's a good chance that the pistol could have been loaded and without handling it to make sure, neither the agent or the OP could reliably say it was unloaded.

My issue wasn't whether or not the agent's job entails personally checking the firearm, but instead with the assertion that it was not loaded despite the distinct possibility that it indeed was. I was always taught that a weapon is loaded until you can completely and assuredly ascertain otherwise, and I know that even if the mag is clear, and the slide is back (which it may not have been, hard to tell from the orignal post) sometimes a visual inspection of the pistol laying in the case is not enough to notice a cartridge in the chamber. Like I said, not trying to bust chops, just pointing out a possible lapse in safety precautions that could have ended very badly.

 

[Rickstir]

I flew from St. Louis to Fort Lauderdale, FL in Mar via American Airlines. I had my 92FS, followed their instructions and they were very accomodating on both ends. Other than the extra time involved, not a problem.