Airline leaves my Rifle sitting infront of baggage carousel

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ZDriver96

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I flew on AirTran today. Its the carrier I normally choose for this particular trip and I have flown multiple times with firearms using this carrier. I've never had a problem before until today. I went the baggage carousel and informed the baggage attendant that I have a checked firearm that I'm waiting for. She informs me that she'll let me know if they bring it to her. Sometimes it arrives at the baggage attendant by TSA, or customer service, but sometimes it arrives at the TSA office. I go to the carousel because it's the easiest place for someone to take it and can usually determine its location by having the baggage attendant radio in.
So I'm standing their and notice that my rifle case is sitting near the customer service office. They have a roped off area with baggage in it... and mine is sitting outside that roped in area. So I politely asked why did they put my rifle outside the roped area... right in front of another flights carousel? Well basically I got the.. "Theres a gun in there? really? well they shouldn't have done that" statement. I identified myself with ID and then was asked to wait for TSA...
Well I've seen and heard enough horror stories about that organization to not stick around. If this was any indication to the competency of TSA's or the airlines firearm handling.... then yeah I'll just take my stuff and go. So I took my rifle and left.

Just a warning and word of advice to those who will be traveling with firearms. Also make sure you print out TSA rules as well as the Airline's rules concerning firearms and have them with you.
 
The only reason a firearms case should get special handling is due to its size if it is a rifle case. Usually suitcases containing firearms cases get handled just like every other piece of luggage and pops out on the carousel with everything else.

Federal law, 18 USC 922 (e):

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.
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If the airline is complying with Federal law, the baggage handlers should not have any way of knowing the luggage or case contains a firearm. There is an urban myth that says a person should always put a gun in the luggage so that it gets special handling by the airlines, when the truth of the matter is that it is illegal for the airlines to mark luggage with a firearm for special handling - and I don't know of any airline that does, just because of the firearm only.
 
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same thing happened to me 2 weeks ago...

I flew to Minneapolis on Delta. I checked a rifle case (a plastic Bushmaster case with the word "Bushmaster" embossed across it. 4 padlocks along the edge).

When I arrived at MSP, I went to the baggage carousel. The baggage claim desk for lost bags and "special items" was right next to that carousel. I spoke to the attendant about picking up my rifle. She checked in the back and it wasn't there. Then she walked out to the carousel and looked around. She finally found it near the carousel by the back wall in an unsecured area next to some golf bags. She sheepishly recovered it for me and gave it to me with some coupons for free drinks on my next flight. :eek:

Security is tight on the way into the airport concerning firearms. It seemed to me like it was pretty loosey-goosey on the way out. FWIW, I always digitally photograph the bag/gun case, the gun(s) being transported, note the serial numbers and my contact info on the jpg files in Photoshop, and bring hard copies of the photos plus a digital file with me in my carry on so i can file a well-documented claim if they lose the bag or firearm.
 
jamesjames:

As you are probably well aware, Delta merged ("laterally") with Northwest Airlines, about two years ago. There might now be some lasting confusion about which airline's policies and procedures apply.

For those on THR who are not familiar, MSP, along with DTW was the main hub for NWA. So many things have changed, along with computer systems etc and even the old NWA headquarters in Eagan were closed.
That is Not my department, but I hope that you can make some middle manager aware of the hazardous consequences of such a mistake.
 
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I've only ever flown with checked handguns, and they've always been treated (on the receiving end) just like any other piece of baggage.
 
I'm not seeing the problem myself either. There's an upfront declaration and inspection perhaps but Airlines stopped labeling luggage "hey badguys, there's a gun in here" some time ago...

Last time they did make a big deal out of it with me by big city cops someone behind the scenes did open my luggage and try to break open the handgun safe that was also cable-locked to the inside of the suitcase!

Oh, and jamesjames, you might reconsider what you ship your guns in. Have gun decals and bumper stickers on your vehicle too, right?
 
Pistols I declare at the counter and then slip them inside my luggage with everything else.
Two locks on the pulican case and two extras inside with the gun. Same key opens all locks.
Rifles are a bit of a trick. I'm considering an unscale hardsided guitar case that can be locked and a "Fender" sticker on the outside.
Yeah they have a tendency toi not care to much about your luggage or even a claim ticket when you go get it.
 
Hmmm... Then I dont understand why my firearms end up in the TSA office sometimes? while other times it gets brought directly to the baggage attendant who watches over the baggage on the carousel?

Also why was my rifle taken and placed outside the roped area where customer service was? Not placed inside the roped area where customer service could watch my baggage.

Also you guys make another point.. AirTran and Southwest use the same check-in line and customer service.. So maybe some confusion happened there... either way I'd rather they keep my luggage with everyone else's so i know where to find it.
 
I'll ask the question that seems to be only partially addressed: Why would you want your firearm case to get special handling, given that would require it to be marked in a way that would telegraph its contents? To me, locking it and having it mix in with everything else is perfectly fine.
 
I'm considering an unscale hardsided guitar case that can be locked and a "Fender" sticker on the outside
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I don't know if I'd do that. Fenders probably cost more than your gun and are easier to sell (?)..Probably a little harder to sneak around the airport with though:)
Try a "Yamaha" sticker or something.
 
I have seen so many guitars (and cases) destroyed by airline baggage gorillas that I would never check one into the baggage hold. I use to throw baggage on and off aircraft and one requirement for the job is that you do not have the slightest idea of what "FRAGILE" or "HANDLE WITH CARE" means. We were told that if anything was important it will be insured and not to worry.
 
Something similar happened to me once, though not with a firearm. A storm kept my "first-leg" plane on the tarmac after landing, causing me to miss my second plane. I was put on a later flight. Because TSA regulations prohibit luggage from flying without its owner, I was told it would have been pulled off the plane I was supposed to have been on, since I never checked in.

Upon arrival at my final destination, I waited and waited for it until the carousel was empty. No luggage. I went to the "lost-luggage" office of the airline, but no one was there. The door was unlocked, and I could see through its window my two bags sitting inside, clearly having arrived earlier. I stepped in, took them, and went on my way.
 
To Ignition Override, thanks for trying to be helpful about the Delta/Northwest merger. But this isn't about big airlines merging policies. It comes down to new baggage handlers who are unfamiliar with rifle cases.

TSA and the Airlines are very cautious about screening firearms and passengers on the intake side of the flight. My rifles have been given careful consideration and security by baggage claim attendants in the past. I have been called by name, asked for ID, and handed my rifle case at my destination airport. It seems that with provisions for "special items" such as over-sized sporting equipment and other things, that rifle cases would go through the same "special item" handling and retrieval considerations. And with airport security being a prime preoccupation these days, I am shocked that cased rifles are treated with indifference by some baggage staff.
 
I used to travel a lot with handguns and related gear when I used to travel to teach. My luggage never got special attention, I never wanted any and it was my understanding that it shouldn't have.

Long guns are a different matter. Not because they are guns, but because they are long. While they legally should not be identified by labeling or markings, they are usually handled differently because their length may present an issue with the carousel.

I would have no expectation that they would place it in a area to be specially "watched".

I've spoken with several people who travel with long guns about casing and the most often mentioned solution was golf cases or vendor display cases...something that is too large to be removed discreetly
 
jamesjames said:
To Ignition Override, thanks for trying to be helpful about the Delta/Northwest merger. But this isn't about big airlines merging policies. It comes down to new baggage handlers who are unfamiliar with rifle cases.

TSA and the Airlines are very cautious about screening firearms and passengers on the intake side of the flight. My rifles have been given careful consideration and security by baggage claim attendants in the past. I have been called by name, asked for ID, and handed my rifle case at my destination airport. It seems that with provisions for "special items" such as over-sized sporting equipment and other things, that rifle cases would go through the same "special item" handling and retrieval considerations. And with airport security being a prime preoccupation these days, I am shocked that cased rifles are treated with indifference by some baggage staff.
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I'm not sure what your point is...

...when you claim your luggage your are almost always in the same place that someone can just come walking in from a parking lot and was unscreened. You're outside the gates' security zone. What "security" are you referring to?!
 
...when you claim your luggage your are almost always in the same place that someone can just come walking in from a parking lot and was unscreened. You're outside the gates' security zone. What "security" are you referring to?!
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This ^^. Baggage claim is the least secure place in most airports.
 
With airports, airlines and TSA all uber-nervous about security and firearms, I guess I had an expectation that a cased rifle would be held for pick up at a baggage claim window. I guess I had the expectation that it would not go down the slide and be generally available for anyone to grab. I guess I had the expectation that it would not be moved by some unknown person, baggage handler or otherwise, to a an unsupervised and unsecured area next to some golf bags.
 
I used to receive packages often that were shipped counter-to-counter, and I'd go right to the baggage service desk to get them, same place where lost bags end up. In the baggage claim area. No security in or out, and nobody watching anything, this is at Denver International Airport. It would be so easy to grab an unclaimed suitcase it's not even funny.

For that matter, it would also be simple to snatch ANY bag off the carousel and make off with it, there's NO checking of any claim tags by ANYONE.

Frankly, it would be a cold day in Hell that I'd even consider checking a cased rifle with an airline! But I don't trust anyone either. I've read too many horror stories about baggage handlers stealing things, not to mention damage.
 
A few years ago, Tom Gresham on his radio show Gun Talk, had quite a bit to say about airlines and the TSA's luggage and gun handling policies, little of it good. He had on as guest a couple of well known weapons trainers, who detailed some problems they were currently having with airlines and the TSA, and Tom talked about being warned by the TSA not to talk about the incident. Several other people called in about their experiences with rules violations by both the airlines and the TSA.

As I say, this was two or three years ago, and despite the fact that his shows are archived and available on line, I know of no good index to his shows, ( one may exist, I just don't know of it).

I don't think it should be surprising, given the numerous reports of theft of laptops, cameras, jewelry, and other valuables by agents of the TSA and baggage handlers over the years, that gun thefts from luggage is not uncommon.

Several good tips about securing gun cases and such were given. Such as physically securing handgun cases inside of a larger piece of luggage, and using non-conventional cases to carry long guns to disguise their contents, and types of locks to be used to prevent the TSA from simply cutting them off with bolt cutters, as has been known to happen, despite the law.

If anyone remembers the date of that broadcast, (one in particular, and a couple of other follow ups) it would be a good primer on how to secure your firearms for airline travel and what to do if something goes wrong.
 
I suppose I could ship the firearm to myself:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=651375


But this is ludicrous. I'm travelling with a cased rifle. The airline and TSA insist on me declaring the firearm and checking it through as a checked bag (pun intended).

My expectation is that the firearm (cased rifle), having been declared and duly checked as a "special item" on the front end of the trip, be handled as the horribly dangerous and hazardous item it is feared to be at the destination end of the trip. Is that too much to ask?
 
jamesjames said:
My expectation is that the firearm (cased rifle), having been declared and duly checked as a "special item" on the front end of the trip, be handled as the horribly dangerous and hazardous item it is feared to be at the destination end of the trip. Is that too much to ask?
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Actually, it probably is too much to expect. Your best bet is to get a rifle case, that is airline approved that doesn't look like a rifle case, or get another case that the rifle case can be put into, such as a large duffle bag.

Anonymity of the bag and it's contents is the best guarantee of it getting through without it being stolen. That is why airlines and the TSA are forbidden to mark any luggage as containing a firearm. It is almost an even bet on whether a TSA person or a baggage handler might steal it.

By the way, I understand most baggage handlers are subcontracted employees, and are not subjected to background checks, something about union rules. The TSA are of course no better, with all the felons and thieves they have hired. I don't have the link anymore, but there was a web site set up to collect stories of theft and other abuses by the TSA, scary reading.
 
we are not amused said:
Actually, it probably is too much to expect. Your best bet is to get a rifle case, that is airline approved that doesn't look like a rifle case, or get another case that the rifle case can be put into, such as a large duffle bag.

Anonymity of the bag and it's contents is the best guarantee of it getting through without it being stolen. That is why airlines and the TSA are forbidden to mark any luggage as containing a firearm. It is almost an even bet on whether a TSA person or a baggage handler might steal it.

By the way, I understand most baggage handlers are subcontracted employees, and are not subjected to background checks, something about union rules. The TSA are of course no better, with all the felons and thieves they have hired. I don't have the link anymore, but there was a web site set up to collect stories of theft and other abuses by the TSA, scary reading.
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Yes, most baggage handlers may be subcontracted but the most definitely are background checked. I don't know where you got the information that they're not. These folks are in the most sensitive of the sterile areas and have direct access to the airplanes. Don't you think the FAA, TSA, etc. would want these people screened?
 
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