Don't want the kool-aid, don't want the kool-aid...ah screw it.

[easyg]

If you don't mind spending money on metal sights, metal guide rod and proper weight spring, and aftermarket barrel with conventional rifling and a better supported chamber, and stick-on grip tape to deal with that super-slick frame, then the Glock is not a bad gun. By that time, however, you've invested $800 and could have just bought an XDM or a SIG and ended up with a superior quality gun.

Well, the stock sights have worked fine for me so far, but I can see why someone would want metal ones.

As for the metal guide rod and proper weight spring....
There's absolutely nothing wrong with the stock plastic guide rod and recoil spring assembly.
Buying a metal one is a waste of money for no real gain.

As for the after-market barrel....
If one wants to shoot bare lead or reloads, then yes, an after-market barrel is needed.
But if one wants to shoot jacketed or plated rounds, and doesn't mind sticking to factory ammo, then there's no reason to get an after-market barrel.
There's nothing wrong with the chamber support of the Generation 3 and Generation 4 Glocks.
I've put thousands of rounds downrange from my G23 and my G27 .40 caliber Glocks.

As for the grip tape....
Some folks like a more aggressive grip than others.
Nothing wrong with it, but it's not something that every Glock shooter is going to desire.
I went through the phase of trying different grip enhancers (skateboard tape, friction tape, rubber bike inner-tube, etc...) but after a lot of shooting I determined that there really wasn't a dime's difference from the stock unaltered Glock texture.
So now I'm back to bare Glocks.

As for the slide-release....
Yes, it is small and unobtrusive.
Which is the way it should be.
Some folks prefer a larger slide release, but as evidence from the thousands of Glock shooters around the world, most folks do just fine with the stock slide release.


Glocks are not for everyone, but there's nothing wrong with a stock Glock pistol outside of personal preferences.
They are safe, reliable, easy to use, easy to maintain, easy to shoot accurately, and very effective pistols.

 

[speaksoftly]

Maybe, but don't buy into the "Glocks are 100% reliable" BS.

I don't. There's not a single firearm company in the world that can make this claim.

I just think the machining is poor,

I've called Glocks a lot of things over the years. Poorly machined is not one of them.

BTW, if you have an issue with the finger grooves u may want to opt for a 2nd gen G23

Thanks. The one I may end up with has finger grooves. I'd honestly like to try a Gen 4 G23 but can't seem to fine one anywhere. Anyone know where they can be had?

 

[ny32182]

So here's the deal. I've never liked Glocks. I've never owned a Glock but have shot friends on multiple occasions. I could never shoot well with the grip angle, I never liked the ergonomics, and they're quite possibly the ugliest pistols known to man. Also, I'm a .40 shooter and 99% of the exploding Glock stories I've heard have been with .40 caliber models.

That being said, I'm going to do my best to give Glock more than a sporting chance. Glocks are like Honda's in that almost everyone has one. This being the case, I really don't like the fact that I'm not on good terms with Glock as there's always a chance that I'll need to shoot one and shoot one well. So I'm thinking of buying one. One good thing I've noticed about them is that they tend to hold their value so I don't think I'll lose much if I hate it and need to sell it. I'm going to look for a Glock 23 model (4 gen or 3 gen RTF2 model) and purchase when I can save the funds unless someone wants to rent one haha. Regardless of how things go, I'm going to put 500 rounds through it. I've shot 50 rounds at a time through friends Glocks before at most and think that more rounds may help me get used to it. I'll update when I get the Glock to the range (have to wait till my "FS" pistols sell) and let you guys know what happens. Should be interesting and I'm hoping that I'll be surprised at just how tasty the kool-aid is.

I was the same way; "didn't like Glocks", was a die-hard Sig shooter up until 2006. I couldn't stand the thought of one of my nice Sigs sitting in the glove box year round, so I bought a "beater Glock" (G19) to put in the glove box.

Then I shot it in a match... and the rest is history; I've barely even touched any other pistols since. My Sig collection has slowly dwindled; I have three left but they are pure safe-queens.

I quickly came to appreciate them for what they are; tools that are 100% optimzed in every way for carry. I saw this on a shirt recently and it made me chuckle: "Kimbers and Colts, you show to your friends.... Glocks, you show to your enemies". I'm not a ninja-operator, but the sentiment is that Glocks are not for show, but are for 100% "go", and I can't disagree. Hope you enjoy yours.

 

[John Wayne]

With all do respect, your post shows you have no idea what you're talking about...

First of all, the expression is "all due respect."

Stock Glock sights are almost disposable, they're plastic, most change them before they even load it for the first time.

Ok, so you're agreeing with me yet you say I don't know what I'm talking about?

The slide-release is just fine, it's designed to stay out of the way of a proper shooting grip (unlike a Sig's which is in the way), when a Sig or XDM breaks (which they do WAY more often then Glocks) you're stuck with a paper-weight unless you're a pretty decent armorer with a fair amount of time on your hands or you're sending it back to Sig or Springfield for a few weeks for them to fix it for you, you can teach a toddler to detail-strip a Glock in less than two minutes and repair it on your kitchen table (that's if you ever even need to fix anything, they rarely break).

No, the slide release is not fine. None of the releases on any of my other auto pistols get in the way of a proper shooting grip, yet they are a lot easier to release. Other Glocks, with stock slide locks, are much easier to release than mine because the slide lock protrudes from the frame much more. On my Glock 30, it almost rubs the frame and offers no surface to grip. Can it be fixed for $25 with an extended slide release? Yes, but it shouldn't have come that way from the factory.

Also, I have not experienced problems with XDs or SIGs breaking, but the all-mighty Glock has parts falling off it right out of the box.

The mags are tough to load when new 'cause they last like 50,000rds or so, don't be a weakling, shoot it and they break-in in a week or so.

My mag didn't take that long to break in, however it is still much harder than it should be to load to full capacity. Probably because Glock stuck a cheap-looking extension on the G30 mags to cram one extra round in there. Again, there are plenty of other auto pistol magazines that can be loaded to full capacity without requiring a table to bear down on.

FTRTB is you limp-wresting the gun, light poly guns do that to people with poor grip technique, blame yourself instead of the Glock.

No, FTE is a problem with limp-wristing. FTRTB can be caused by out-of-spec chambers or rounds, or weak recoil springs. How 'bout you actually do some research before telling me[/i] I don't know what I'm talking about? Google "Glock 30 FTRTB" and you will find that a lot of people have this issue with this particular model Glock.

Don't mean to be so harsh or sound like a jerk but this is how Glocks get a bad rap, bad info from guys who don't get them and think stuff like a metal guide rod is somehow better but can't say why.

I understand exactly how a Glock works. A metal guide rod and non-captive recoil spring will actually allow you to put a spring in the gun with sufficient power to chamber a round reliably. Early stock plastic units also had problems breaking, which is why there is now a metal piece at one end.

People like you are the reason there is so much misinformation about Glock reliability. I posted problems about my G30 on several forums, and the general response I get from the Glock guys is that there is nothing to worry about, and it's somehow my fault. Fact is, Glocks do have problems, manufacturing defects, and design flaws just like any other firearm. Why do you think magazines are now metal lined, Gen 3 models have 3 pins and better supported chambers, and Gen 4 models actually have a grip that doesn't slide around?

 

[DustyVermonter]

Yes, glock is a corporate business machine, and I seem to remember something about Gaston Glock refusing to acknowledge a certain PD AD problem and trying to sweep it under the rug and taking back pistols to undergo a "product improvement" instead of calling it what it was...a recall, but that's the way things work with any large scale manufacturing company, people cut corners and try to put as much money in their pockets as possible. I don't deny this one bit, but I can tell you I would much rather put the money from my pocket on Glock, as there are a lot less parts to cut cost's on, they have a much better track record than any other that I know of, and I don't have the money to buy custom made guns, not to mention any customization of the glock can be done inexspensively and by me as it doesn't take a master smith to make worthwhile improvements. I have bought different guns over the years from at least a dozen different makers and have experienced at least one kind of failure with every single one, except Glock, so that's enough for me, I have supreme confidence that if I ever need to defend myself, the gun will at the very least function when I absolutely need it to. As it stands right now, having had some kind of malfunction or another with all the other makes of guns I have, I have the highest probability of success with my Glock. I'm not saying that they are infalliable, but I am saying that they are better than any other pistol that I know of, and they meet or exceed my requirements for a defensive pistol.

 

[easyg]

John Wayne,
Did you actually look at a Glock before you bought one?

Didn't you notice the plastic sights?

Didn't you notice how small and unobtrusive the slide release lever is?

Didn't you handle the weapon first before buying?



And once you had bought your Glock....

and the all-mighty Glock has parts falling off it right out of the box

Did you send it back to Glock while it was still under warranty?

Other Glocks, with stock slide locks, are much easier to release than mine because the slide lock protrudes from the frame much more. On my Glock 30, it almost rubs the frame and offers no surface to grip.

Did you send it back to Glock while it was still under warranty?

I understand exactly how a Glock works. A metal guide rod and non-captive recoil spring will actually allow you to put a spring in the gun with sufficient power to chamber a round reliably. Early stock plastic units also had problems breaking, which is why there is now a metal piece at one end.

Did your Glock actually have the stock plastic guide-rod break or fail?
And if so, did you send it back to Glock while it was still under warranty?

 

[DustyVermonter]

Quote: "I never liked Glocks, I never owned a glock, but I have shot friends on multiple occasions". Quote: "well, if your going to run around doing that then there's an issue"

I've had these stomach pains for days and after I read this I couldn't stop laughing for 5 minutes and now I'm in a lot worse pain, thanks a lot

 

[speaksoftly]

Haha glad I could help, Dusty.

 

[DustyVermonter]

Speaksoftly, I don't think the 4th gen G23's come out for another month or two, but you can get the G23 RTF2 at www.hyattgunstore.com I guess there are two RTF2 versions, one with curved slide serrations and one without, rumor has it that about a month ago they stopped making the ones with curved slide serrations(fish gill serrations) so if you like that look(I don't) you may want to hurry up and get one. As a glock guy myself, I would never opt for a 4th gen but that is just me, Glock was squeezed out of a couple PD's solely based on the fact that the S&W M&P had interchangable backstraps, so obviously they needed to make the change, even though they really didn't 'need' to, you'll have that. But due to the fact that your issue with the glock is the grip, the interchanging backstraps may make all the difference, so it may be worth the wait, I don't wait, I get too impatient, If I was you I'd have a G23 in my holster right now if I wanted one.

 

[speaksoftly]

Thanks, Dusty. If I go with a Gen 3 it'll be a RTF2 for sure. I'm actually a fan of the gill serrations but it's not a majorly important detail to me either way. Is it true that there will be a less aggressive grip angle on the Gen 4 models?

 

[DustyVermonter]

Speaksoftly, I'm not sure about the less aggressive grip angle thing, although that may be one of the things you may want to overcome because I find this grip angle helps my follow up shot recovery immensely. Another thing I didn't think of was www.gripreductions.com, they do some really amazing work and can somehow make Glocks look a lot less homely looking by adding beavertails, removing the grip angle, Hybrid frame textures, etc... I would like to have them do something to one of my glocks but as I said before I hate waiting for things and its too much of a pain in the ass for me, although some people love sending things off, receiving things back, talking to people, etc... I also thought I might like to get a NP3 coated matte grey slide even though I hate two-tone guns but for some reason I like the matte grey slide on a glock, although I would only do it to one of them. Anyway, the point is, if you found that you couldn't overcome the feel of the gun the way it is, you could make anything you didn't like about the gun, something you did. You should just check that site out, they do a lot of different stuff with different guns, but what stood out to me the most was their glock jobs. Can you imagine a non-ugly glock? Me either, before I looked at that site

 

[speaksoftly]

Interesting work they do. Honestly, with a beavertail and the "competition" grip treatment they do, it looks a lot like an M&P. (Straps on the helmet and awaits the stoning haha)

 

[John Wayne]

John Wayne,
Did you actually look at a Glock before you bought one?
Didn't you notice the plastic sights?
Didn't you notice how small and unobtrusive the slide release lever is?
Didn't you handle the weapon first before buying?

Yes, I looked at the gun before I bought it. I noticed the plastic sights, and did not have a problem with them while they remained attached to the gun. They didn't fall off in the gun store so when I bought the gun I didn't have a problem with them. I did not like the texture (or lack thereof) of the frame but realized that there are inexpensive aftermarket fixes for that problem.

Did you send it back to Glock while it was still under warranty?

Actually yes, it is currently being looked at by a certified Glock armorer at a local authorized repair center. The rear sight should be an easy fix; I hope they will also be able to fix the pistol to where it ejects chambered rounds when the slide is retracted by hand.

As for the slide lock, I plan to replace it with an extended version at my expense.

Did your Glock actually have the stock plastic guide-rod break or fail?
And if so, did you send it back to Glock while it was still under warranty?

No, my guide rod did not break. My reference to broken guide rods was simply to show that Glocks are not immune to having problems. My interest in replacing my own stock, unbroken guide rod with a steel one is so that I can install a stronger recoil spring in order to address the FTRTB issue that seems to be disproportionately common to the G30 model. As the stock guide rod is a captive arrangement, the spring cannot easily be replaced.

 

[speaksoftly]

Contacted my LGS yesterday and they told me that they had two Gen 3 G23 models. One was $400 and came with two mags, a speedloader, and regular sights and the other was $425 and came with one mag and night sights. Are the Glock factory night sights any good? Are the prices right on these guns? Should I hold out for a Gen 4? Neither of these are the rough texture frame that I was wanting but I think it's a decent price.

 

[DustyVermonter]

SpeakSoftly, Run don't walk, those are unusually low prices on a used glock with fixed sites, not to mention with night sites. I have never heard of such low prices, I would jump on that G23 w/ night sites, and yes, the glock night sights are very nice, and should hold a nice glow for at least 15yrs. If they are in fact used, you can easily find out exactly what year the gun was made using the first 3 letters in the SN to determine how much longer your nite-sites should last and what the guns DOB is. But either way, unless the gun looks beat to hell you stumbled on one hell of a deal and even a hardcore anti-glock would be tempted, even if they wouldn't admit it. Used Glocks are usually between $475-$500 and new Glocks are anywhere between $500-$600. A new Glock with nite-sites MSRP between $679-$706, even though I don't usually see them quite that high. You'd be doin pretty well for yourself walkin out of there with a G23 w/ nite-sites for $425 no doubt about it. Let me know if u figure somethin out, I just picked myself up 3 Glocks today as a matter of fact, a nice G21, G26 and a minty new unfired 2nd gen G20 and I'm right in love. The G20 is my first 10mm, 15rds of magnum power. Maybe you may want to consider a Glock 20 in 10mm for the simple fact that all you have to do is by a .40s&w drop in barrel and you got youself a Glock .40s&w and a .40s&w Magnum, you can use the same mag for the .40 btw, anyway just thought you might like to know that. Oh yeah, you can do the same with a .357sig drop in barrel with the G20 and use the same mag, 3 guns in 1, pretty cool. You'll have to excuse my enthusiasm, I'm just really excited about my new additions.

 

[DustyVermonter]

I went in to my LGS yeterday and they had a new G21 and it wasn't even the 'SF' version and it was $637 with fixed sights, that's pretty high. Point is, $425 w/ nite-sites is a great deal.

 

[John Wayne]

Used Glocks are pretty easy to find online. Many models can be had for the $425 described, with night sights and sometimes up to 4 mags. Usually better to buy local once you add in the shipping and transfer fee, but if your LGS is charging $600, buying online might be the way to go.

Check Glockmeister.com if you can't find used guns locally. Right now they have a G21 SF listed as "like new" for $479 shipped. The 9/40/357 models are typically a good bit cheaper.

 

[Prosser]

My two cents. I also was not impressed with a 30. Had all the same problems, more or less, and this was a range gun.
7 yards, average target:


The only Glocks I would consider are the 34 and 35. for the money, they are a GREAT value, and pretty much tuned already for competition. This means a great trigger, VERY accurate, and a joy to shoot.



Race Glock target, this on a freezing, raining day:


Even though I liked this gun, I've since bought another, and had custom work done on it. However, it's a REAL gun:


My take is unless you get a great deal on one, why waste the money?

The 34 and 35 are custom glocks, just done by Glock.

 

[AR27]

ugliest gun known to homosapians

 

[speaksoftly]

ugliest gun known to homosapians

And? Don't think many will disagree with you. Lot's of people think my Sigs are ugly too but I dare someone to try and take em away from me.

 

[DustyVermonter]

Quote: "Ugliest gun known to homosapians". Well, that is just conjecture, an old baseball bat with concrete nails driven through the tip might not be the prettiest looking thing, but it will still take care of the job at hand. Another thing about Glocks is, and this is not to be confused with a 'it is a great gun for the money' comment, but it IS a great gun, and for the money it does not make any sense not to own one. Its not a cheap alternative, its a great weapon no matter how much money you have to invest on guns. On the other hand, I love Glocks, but at one time, my first glock, and my only glock, was a G36 and I sold it, there was something I didn't like about it but didn't know what, so for the people who's first glocks were either the G30 or G36, you should not judge Glock as a whole based on those models, because there was something a little off about those I didn't like, not to say they are bad guns, but to me a Glock's quality should be based on the full size and compact models to truly determine whether or not you are indeed a glock man or not. I'm not a big fan of the subs, as there seems to be less bulky, easier concealable guns available for CCW, but I have fallen right in love with the G26, its a lot smaller and less bulkier looking than it looks in mags and thru the glass at your LGS. BTW, I have never seen Glocks priced so low, $479 for a new G21 'SF'? I don't doubt it, I just haven't ever found them that low online, the lowest I've ever seen for a new G21 'SF' is $511. It seems like gun prices in the north-east are higher than the rest of the country, at least as far as LGS's go.