Double Action Trigger Pull

[MoMatt]

Looking for some input on technique for trigger pull on a double action shot.

I've got a Ruger P-95, which in double action has a fairly long, heavy trigger pull, and I suppose this would apply to any double action handgun.

I had originally learned that it's best to have a smooth, consistent pull on the trigger throughout the shot.

However, when practicing with dry-fire at home and during range sessions, I've begun to pre-load the shot by pulling the trigger about 80% of the way, pausing, waiting for the perfect sight-picture and then finishing the shot.

Particularly with dry-fire practice, I've noticed a bit of an unpredictable wobble if I make it one smooth pull, and by pre-loading the trigger I'm able to re-acquire the target.

So, what do you all think? Should I go with what works, or learn to control the long, heavy double action pull in one stroke? What are some techniques I can use to improve the trigger control in double-action?

I plan on acquiring more double-action revolvers and pistols, so I'd like to learn proper technique.

 

[chris in va]

A lighter hammer spring might help, if one is available for the Ruger. Usually the first thing I change out on da/sa handguns. Makes the DA pull lighter.

 

[MoMatt]

Ok, hadn't considered that. Thanks, I'll take a look at Ruger's site.

Also worth noting that I have about 1500 rounds through the gun and another 2000 or so dry-fire shots.

 

[chuckpro]

It depends on what you are doing with it and how accurate you want to be. When practicing for self deface my quick draw and fire at close range (less than 15 yards) is one continuous squeeze of the trigger. But for longer shots i slow down and index the trigger like what you are talking about. With my j frame i will pull the trigger with my second knuckle and when the tip of my trigger finger touches a certain part of my support hand "for me it is on my left thumb" i steady sights and just think about the gun firing and it goes off. This method was thought to me by a FED LOE and competitive revolver shooter. The kicker is that while he was teaching me this he said that this method is not very practical but used to qualify with a j frame to carry as a backup.

The short of it is if you want to practice defensive shooting i would work on your grip and pushing straight back on the trigger with one smooth movement. If you are just trying to be accurate shoot single action.

 

[MoMatt]

You know, I thought about that after I posted. I suppose the only time I'd really need to be somewhat accurate with a DA shot is in a self-defense situation, which would be at close range. So I should work on a consistent DA pull.

Any other situation this gun would be used for (like target practice) I could spare the 0.5 seconds to cock the hammer.

 

[CZ57]

MoMatt, I just got through working on a P-89 I bought in 2008. I have brought it out of the closet for 9mm handload development that includes +P loads. All a P series Ruger really needs is a polishing of all of the internal parts where metal contacts metal except that sear engagement surfaces are best left alone. A good DA trigger pull consists of one continuous pull of the trigger. This comes from many years of practice in learning to hit targets at a distance with a DA pull. DA Autoloaders are no different except that some have poorer quality DA triggers than those typical of a good K-Frame S&W. It doesn't have to be a handicap. Under Stress, a DA pull could prevent you from prematurely firing that first round. If you are up to it, polish the internals of the P-95, if not, it's a relatively inexpensive operation that can be done by any competent gunsmith.

 

[tuj]

Consistent pressure, don't pause.

 

[CommanderCrusty]

Take up the slack in the linkage, then take up the squish in your trigger finger, then roll through in one smooth motion. Smith and Wesson, at least, recommends AGAINST staging a double action trigger. They believe, and I agree, that staging the trigger makes you more likely to jerk a shot off target, or to have the gun fire "by accident." Of course, "by accident" is a relative term when you are pointing a gun at something and actively pulling the trigger!

On the other hand, maybe you need to fire 50 rounds each way and see for yourself. If you ever carry that weapon, keep your targets to support your chosen trigger technique.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Take a look at the second link, on gun handling, in my signature.

Once you start the DA trigger pull, after taking up the slack (free play), it should be one continuous press of the trigger straight to the rear. You should not pause/slow/down during the trigger press as it is an invitation to a participation fueled jerked shot. We used to shoot DA at 50 yards all the time during PPC competition...it isn't any less accurate or slower than SA.

Particularly with dry-fire practice, I've noticed a bit of an unpredictable wobble if I make it one smooth pull

It almost sounds like you've reached the end of your trigger finger's compression and you're having to change your leverage. Try using less finger on the trigger, by placing the trigger face behind the middle of the fingernail bed.

Having the trigger/action polished is a good idea too. Rugers are not known for very smooth triggers. The goal should be a smooth trigger stroke, as opposed to a lighter one

 

[MoMatt]

...All a P series Ruger really needs is a polishing of all of the internal parts where metal contacts metal except that sear engagement surfaces are best left alone. A good DA trigger pull consists of one continuous pull of the trigger. This comes from many years of practice in learning to hit targets at a distance with a DA pull. ...

OK, thanks. I can say the trigger has smoothed out a bit since new from the dry-firing I've done. I'll look into getting the internals polished.

Take a look at the second link, on gun handling, in my signature.

Once you start the DA trigger pull, after taking up the slack (free play), it should be one continuous press of the trigger straight to the rear. You should not pause/slow/down during the trigger press as it is an invitation to a participation fueled jerked shot. We used to shoot DA at 50 yards all the time during PPC competition...it isn't any less accurate or slower than SA.

It almost sounds like you've reached the end of your trigger finger's compression and you're having to change your leverage. Try using less finger on the trigger, by placing the trigger face behind the middle of the fingernail bed.

Having the trigger/action polished is a good idea too. Rugers are not known for very smooth triggers. The goal should be a smooth trigger stroke, as opposed to a lighter one

After reading this and dry firing a bit more - it looks like that helps. If I have too much finger on the trigger I tend to jerk the front sight to the left slightly.

Thank you for the input everyone.

Edit - 9mmepiphany, the second link in your sig is broken. Here is a link to a cached version from google:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JNkWmB7R2fwJ:www.craigcentral.com/fearnot.htm+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[CZ57]

You're welcome! Polishing the internals will make it seem like a totally different pistol.

 

[Plan2Live]

Sig 239 DA/SA. 5 shots at 7 yards. All shots fired in DA mode. DA can be very accurate.

 

[otasan56]

I like my Glock 17 trigger pull. Constant weight of pull for a whole third of an inch, then the striker is released. And it is not a NY trigger, just a stock trigger with a 3.5 connector.

 

[Mike J]

I have one of the older Ruger P series pistols (a .40 caliber P94). The trigger was hard & stiff. I actually put a reduced power mainspring in the pistol to reduce the pull weight. After spending a lot of time dry firing with a penny balanced on the front sight and shooting about 2000 rounds it smoothed out. A discussion with a local LEO about the possible difficulties one can encounter from a lightened trigger in court convinced me to change it back to stock. I actually like it better that way than I did with the lightened spring since it has smoothed out. The more you shoot it the better the trigger will get until the internals have polished themselves.

 

[Drail]

Keep in mind that lightening the spring under the hammer causes it to fall slower and allows the slide to cycle faster. If the slide cycles faster than the mag spring can get the next round up in front of the breechface it will not feed reliably. Polishing the action's parts is a better idea. Don't touch the hammer/sear surafces unless you know exactly what you are doing. Rugers all contain a lot of burrs and chips from the factory. That's where most of the trigger pull's drag comes from. Make sure your mag springs get changed when they have weakened. You'll know it when the last round starts choking. Use extra power springs from Wolff if you can egt them. Becoming proficient in DA shooting takes practice. A lot for most people. I wouldn't worry very much about having a lightened spring in a courtroom. How do they prove that you installed it or even knew it was in the gun?

 

[MoMatt]

You're welcome! Polishing the internals will make it seem like a totally different pistol.

Well, After detail stripping the pistol for the first time, I was amazed at the amount of gunk and grit that was built up in there. After cleaning it well, I just polished the parts by hand with some Flitz. The DA trigger pull is a bit lighter now, but I can definitely notice a MUCH smoother pull! Even hand polishing made a huge difference.

Between that and some changed technique with my trigger finger, I'm itching to get to the range.

Drail, I didn't touch the hammer or the the smaller internal parts. I'm embarrassed to say I don't know exactly which part is the sear. I've pored through internet posts, the p95 manual and a detailed p89 manual I have but can't find reference to part names. At any rate, the light hand polishing I did myself seems to have helped tremendously.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Colts were famous for that "pre-loading" capability. A man who practices with a Colt can do some fine shooting by pulling back to the natural stop, then completing the pull when the sights come on.

So a pre-loaded pull isn't necessarily a bad thing -- just something people trained on S&Ws don't understand.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Colts were famous for that "pre-loading" capability. A man who practices with a Colt can do some fine shooting by pulling back to the natural stop, then completing the pull when the sights come on.

So a pre-loaded pull isn't necessarily a bad thing -- just something people trained on S&Ws don't understand.

I can only surmise from this post that you are referring to revolvers as I don't think Colt is currently offering a DA/SA trigger on one of the autoloaders. Even when they did, there wasn't a natural stop in the linkage...I'm thinking the Double Eagle.

If you've overlooked that this is the Handguns: Autoloader subforum or that the OP was asking about the DA trigger stroke on a Ruger P-95 and have posted in the wrong thread, I'd be happy to move your post for you or delete it as O/T

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I can only surmise from this post that you are referring to revolvers as I don't think Colt is currently offering a DA/SA trigger on one of the autoloaders. Even when they did, there wasn't a natural stop in the linkage...I'm thinking the Double Eagle.

If you've overlooked that this is the Handguns: Autoloader subforum or that the OP was asking about the DA trigger stroke on a Ruger P-95 and have posted in the wrong thread, I'd be happy to move your post for you or delete it as O/T

Double action shooting began with revolvers -- long before there was any automatic with double action capability there were double action revolvers.

Therefore to understand double action shooting, you must look to revolvers. Colt revolvers had a "pre-loading" trigger action, and people shot them very well. Smith and Wessons did not, and the "straight-through" technique was used on S&Ws. Since Colt has long been out of the revolver business, there are a lot of people who never learned the "pre-loading" trigger and who feel that "straight-through" is the only way.

 

[MoMatt]

Colts were famous for that "pre-loading" capability. A man who practices with a Colt can do some fine shooting by pulling back to the natural stop, then completing the pull when the sights come on.

So a pre-loaded pull isn't necessarily a bad thing -- just something people trained on S&Ws don't understand.

Thanks for the information Vern. I've got only an auto loader at the moment, but plan on getting a revolver or two in the future.

I think it would be best to keep technique consistent across handguns, and I'm going to try and develop a good smooth pull in double action without staging the trigger.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I think it would be best to keep technique consistent across handguns, and I'm going to try and develop a good smooth pull in double action without staging the trigger.

That is a well thought out idea.

Staging a DA trigger isn't an optimized technique for quick and accurate shooting with either a revolver or semi-auto pistol.

I've done it when shooting PPC with both Colt and S&W revolvers and it really doesn't offer any accuracy advantages...at least not out to 50 yards